[nabs-l] draft 2 - complete section with amendment
Darian Smith
dsmithnfb at gmail.com
Sun Jun 19 17:30:04 UTC 2011
I believe the "card system" in question was the one where individuals
recieve a single vote card upon payment of their dues. The person
in possession of said card will raise that card in the air for a
sighted counter to see, but only in the case of a standing vote.
The card ballot system that nabs used last year (it was actually
playing chips last year, but will be cards this year) used
"runners" to gather the ballot for a particular person running in an
election and put it into a bucket ( example: if you are voting
for Bob, you would put that ballot into the first bucket in
circulation. Once all of those ballots are collected, all persons
who wish to vote for the second person "john", will but their ballot
into the second bucket. once all ballots are collected, counting
begins and the winner announced after counting has been completed.)
This system was put in place so we, as the blind can empower
ourselves to run our own elections. While it may take a little
longer than asking someone sighted to count standing votes, I
personally find this system no different than any of us as
individuals utilizing an alternitive technique to get a particular
task done.
On 6/19/11, Peter Donahue <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> The vast majority of our local chapters and affiliates conduct fare
> elections without resorting to junk like this. Angela Wolfe cautioned NABS
> on the use of cards in 2009. I know because I was there and have the
> recording of her remarks. It's on the NABS Web Site for all to hear. Every
> time I've heard a card/ballot system of this kind tried it does nothing but
> slow down the election process and make the procedure cumbersome and more of
> a hassle than need be. If you want your elections to run more smoothly get
> rid of the cards and use the good old voice vote system like our other
> affiliates use. There's little if any concern about individuals voting when
> they shouldn't. Stick with what works and quit trying to reinvent the wheel.
>
> Our national constitution got us this far so why monkey with something
> that works and has proven its weight in gold? You have more important things
> to do than to implement ridiculous election procedures and monkeying with
> your constitution every time you turn around. JMO.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <nabs.president at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] draft 2 - complete section with amendment
>
>
> Hi George,
> That's a good question. When people come to the NABS business meeting
> and pay their dues, they are given a set of ballots. Only people who
> stop by the registration table and give our treasurer their $5 get
> ballots. I think this is a pretty good way of ensuring that only paid
> members vote.
> Sure, we can allow people to pay throughout the year and create a
> tracking system. I think that is a good idea. However, once they've
> paid, if they want to vote online, how do we prove they've paid
> beforehand?
> It might work if people pay their $5 online right before the election.
> But even then, I worry about hackers and other fancy computer gimmicks
> that might game the system.
> Arielle
>
> On 6/19/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Arielle:
>> With all due respect,
>> how would we be able to identify current members without any problem?
>>
>> That is to say,
>> do we keep some kind of database of who is *currently* on NABS?
>> The reason I'm asking is because I don't see how NABS keeps track of
>> current
>> membership to begin with, let alone new members.
>>
>> Are you saying you're opposed to such an amendment because it would mean
>> creating a tracking system for the entire membership?
>>
>> And if so, wouldn't this help NABS in the long run?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jorge
>>
>>
>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 1:52 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>
>>> Excellent point, Kurt. I have heard of cases at state conventions
>>> where candidates brought all their friends who were not NFB members
>>> on the day of the election to pay their dues and vote in person. Sure,
>>> this could happen at a national convention, but it seems less likely,
>>> and much more likely if absentee voting were allowed. The problem
>>> could be minimized by requiring payment of dues a month or so in
>>> advance of the election. But even then, how could we verify payment
>>> status virtually? The U.S. government allows mail-in voting, but in
>>> that case candidates are clearly identified in advance. In short, even
>>> if this amendment were permissible and philosophically desirable, our
>>> election procedures, from nomination of candidates to membership
>>> verification, would have to be radically modified. I'm not opposed to
>>> change, but I question whether the dramatic investment of effort
>>> required is worth the benefit of allowing a few more people to vote.
>>> As Darian emphasized, there are many, many other ways we can be using
>>> our energy and exercising our membership rights.
>>> Respectfully,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 6/18/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Jorge,
>>>> You're putting this out in the open for public scrutiny so I'm going
>>>> to be honest. I really, really don't like the idea-it opens up all
>>>> sorts of cans of worms that don't seem right to me. Consider the
>>>> following.
>>>> We probably won't know all the candidates in the election *until*
>>>> the actual business meeting. There could be someone who, for whatever
>>>> reason, hasn't announced their candidacy for office on the list. I
>>>> think it's only fair that anyone who's even considering voting in the
>>>> election knows who all candidates are and has the opportunity to
>>>> listen to each introduction speech (even if it's only 30 seconds
>>>> long), before they cast their ballot. That's only fair to all the
>>>> candidates involved. I would consider supporting an idea that allows
>>>> those due-paying members in virtual attendance (through an official
>>>> NABS skype call or the like) the opportunity to vote. Beyond that, I
>>>> don't think you have much of a case.
>>>> Also, think about this. Let's say you, hypothetically, were running
>>>> for NABS president. You get a bunch of your blind friends who aren't
>>>> going to convention, who may or may not want anything to do with the
>>>> Federation, and have them pay $5 so they're voting members. I'm not
>>>> saying you'd do such a thing, I'm just saying you're leaving that kind
>>>> of possibility open. No matter how secure the voting method is, that
>>>> makes this something that could happen. Do other organizations open
>>>> that door? Sure. Should we? I say no.
>>>> But the spirit behind the idea isn't bad. I think, personally, if
>>>> we could ensure some sort of secure method for virtual attendance at
>>>> the meeting for those due-paying members who can't make convention,
>>>> I'd be all for allowing them to vote. Maybe set up a shoutcast server
>>>> streaming the meeting, and only give the password to those due-paying
>>>> members who request it? Make a conference call and only give the
>>>> calling info/access code for those due-paying members who ask for it?
>>>> If we instituted a system like that, I don't see why we couldn't allow
>>>> that sort of absentee voting, but only for those who are in virtual
>>>> attendance at the NABS business meeting and not for anyone else. Am I
>>>> making any sense? Is that a possibility?
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 6/18/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Arielle:
>>>>> Not exactly,
>>>>> I'm going to continue to edit the amendment myself and should be able
>>>>> to
>>>>> submit it before July second.
>>>>> I posted this version so that people could see my amendment in light of
>>>>> the
>>>>> entire section.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 7:59 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>> Is this the final version you would like read at the NABS meeting this
>>>>>> year? Or, would you like to wait until 2012 when you will be at
>>>>>> convention yourself and can present and defend it?
>>>>>> If you want it read in 2011 and you will not be at convention, you
>>>>>> will need to find someone else who will be there to read and defend
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/17/11, Joseph C. Lininger <jbahm at pcdesk.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>> I hate to be a killjoy on you, but you're probably wasting your time
>>>>>>> with this. The organization isn't going to change this particular
>>>>>>> policy, no matter how many people would like to see it happen. For
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> record, I'm with you on this one, but I'm also no longer a
>>>>>>> federationest
>>>>>>> and haven't been for some years now. Too many differences of opinion.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box
>>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, <jbahm at pcdesk.net>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Arielle Silverman
>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255
>>>>>> Email:
>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>>>> Website:
>>>>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Arielle Silverman
>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>> Phone: 602-502-2255
>>> Email:
>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>> Website:
>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone: 602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>
--
Darian Smith
“My secret? See it, and stay focused on it.”
— Shaquille O'Neal
More information about the NABS-L
mailing list