[nabs-l] draft 2 - complete section with amendment
Elizabeth
lizmohnke at hotmail.com
Sun Jun 19 17:47:07 UTC 2011
I really liked the voting system we used last year. I really don't think it
took that much longer to complete when compared to a standing vote. And I am
glad to see that you will be using the same system again this year.
Elizabeth
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Darian Smith" <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:30 PM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] draft 2 - complete section with amendment
> I believe the "card system" in question was the one where individuals
> recieve a single vote card upon payment of their dues. The person
> in possession of said card will raise that card in the air for a
> sighted counter to see, but only in the case of a standing vote.
> The card ballot system that nabs used last year (it was actually
> playing chips last year, but will be cards this year) used
> "runners" to gather the ballot for a particular person running in an
> election and put it into a bucket ( example: if you are voting
> for Bob, you would put that ballot into the first bucket in
> circulation. Once all of those ballots are collected, all persons
> who wish to vote for the second person "john", will but their ballot
> into the second bucket. once all ballots are collected, counting
> begins and the winner announced after counting has been completed.)
> This system was put in place so we, as the blind can empower
> ourselves to run our own elections. While it may take a little
> longer than asking someone sighted to count standing votes, I
> personally find this system no different than any of us as
> individuals utilizing an alternitive technique to get a particular
> task done.
>
>
> On 6/19/11, Peter Donahue <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> The vast majority of our local chapters and affiliates conduct fare
>> elections without resorting to junk like this. Angela Wolfe cautioned
>> NABS
>> on the use of cards in 2009. I know because I was there and have the
>> recording of her remarks. It's on the NABS Web Site for all to hear.
>> Every
>> time I've heard a card/ballot system of this kind tried it does nothing
>> but
>> slow down the election process and make the procedure cumbersome and more
>> of
>> a hassle than need be. If you want your elections to run more smoothly
>> get
>> rid of the cards and use the good old voice vote system like our other
>> affiliates use. There's little if any concern about individuals voting
>> when
>> they shouldn't. Stick with what works and quit trying to reinvent the
>> wheel.
>>
>> Our national constitution got us this far so why monkey with
>> something
>> that works and has proven its weight in gold? You have more important
>> things
>> to do than to implement ridiculous election procedures and monkeying with
>> your constitution every time you turn around. JMO.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <nabs.president at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] draft 2 - complete section with amendment
>>
>>
>> Hi George,
>> That's a good question. When people come to the NABS business meeting
>> and pay their dues, they are given a set of ballots. Only people who
>> stop by the registration table and give our treasurer their $5 get
>> ballots. I think this is a pretty good way of ensuring that only paid
>> members vote.
>> Sure, we can allow people to pay throughout the year and create a
>> tracking system. I think that is a good idea. However, once they've
>> paid, if they want to vote online, how do we prove they've paid
>> beforehand?
>> It might work if people pay their $5 online right before the election.
>> But even then, I worry about hackers and other fancy computer gimmicks
>> that might game the system.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 6/19/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Arielle:
>>> With all due respect,
>>> how would we be able to identify current members without any problem?
>>>
>>> That is to say,
>>> do we keep some kind of database of who is *currently* on NABS?
>>> The reason I'm asking is because I don't see how NABS keeps track of
>>> current
>>> membership to begin with, let alone new members.
>>>
>>> Are you saying you're opposed to such an amendment because it would mean
>>> creating a tracking system for the entire membership?
>>>
>>> And if so, wouldn't this help NABS in the long run?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jorge
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 1:52 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Excellent point, Kurt. I have heard of cases at state conventions
>>>> where candidates brought all their friends who were not NFB members
>>>> on the day of the election to pay their dues and vote in person. Sure,
>>>> this could happen at a national convention, but it seems less likely,
>>>> and much more likely if absentee voting were allowed. The problem
>>>> could be minimized by requiring payment of dues a month or so in
>>>> advance of the election. But even then, how could we verify payment
>>>> status virtually? The U.S. government allows mail-in voting, but in
>>>> that case candidates are clearly identified in advance. In short, even
>>>> if this amendment were permissible and philosophically desirable, our
>>>> election procedures, from nomination of candidates to membership
>>>> verification, would have to be radically modified. I'm not opposed to
>>>> change, but I question whether the dramatic investment of effort
>>>> required is worth the benefit of allowing a few more people to vote.
>>>> As Darian emphasized, there are many, many other ways we can be using
>>>> our energy and exercising our membership rights.
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 6/18/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>> You're putting this out in the open for public scrutiny so I'm going
>>>>> to be honest. I really, really don't like the idea-it opens up all
>>>>> sorts of cans of worms that don't seem right to me. Consider the
>>>>> following.
>>>>> We probably won't know all the candidates in the election *until*
>>>>> the actual business meeting. There could be someone who, for whatever
>>>>> reason, hasn't announced their candidacy for office on the list. I
>>>>> think it's only fair that anyone who's even considering voting in the
>>>>> election knows who all candidates are and has the opportunity to
>>>>> listen to each introduction speech (even if it's only 30 seconds
>>>>> long), before they cast their ballot. That's only fair to all the
>>>>> candidates involved. I would consider supporting an idea that allows
>>>>> those due-paying members in virtual attendance (through an official
>>>>> NABS skype call or the like) the opportunity to vote. Beyond that, I
>>>>> don't think you have much of a case.
>>>>> Also, think about this. Let's say you, hypothetically, were running
>>>>> for NABS president. You get a bunch of your blind friends who aren't
>>>>> going to convention, who may or may not want anything to do with the
>>>>> Federation, and have them pay $5 so they're voting members. I'm not
>>>>> saying you'd do such a thing, I'm just saying you're leaving that kind
>>>>> of possibility open. No matter how secure the voting method is, that
>>>>> makes this something that could happen. Do other organizations open
>>>>> that door? Sure. Should we? I say no.
>>>>> But the spirit behind the idea isn't bad. I think, personally, if
>>>>> we could ensure some sort of secure method for virtual attendance at
>>>>> the meeting for those due-paying members who can't make convention,
>>>>> I'd be all for allowing them to vote. Maybe set up a shoutcast server
>>>>> streaming the meeting, and only give the password to those due-paying
>>>>> members who request it? Make a conference call and only give the
>>>>> calling info/access code for those due-paying members who ask for it?
>>>>> If we instituted a system like that, I don't see why we couldn't allow
>>>>> that sort of absentee voting, but only for those who are in virtual
>>>>> attendance at the NABS business meeting and not for anyone else. Am I
>>>>> making any sense? Is that a possibility?
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/18/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Arielle:
>>>>>> Not exactly,
>>>>>> I'm going to continue to edit the amendment myself and should be able
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> submit it before July second.
>>>>>> I posted this version so that people could see my amendment in light
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> entire section.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 7:59 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>> Is this the final version you would like read at the NABS meeting
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> year? Or, would you like to wait until 2012 when you will be at
>>>>>>> convention yourself and can present and defend it?
>>>>>>> If you want it read in 2011 and you will not be at convention, you
>>>>>>> will need to find someone else who will be there to read and defend
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/17/11, Joseph C. Lininger <jbahm at pcdesk.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>> I hate to be a killjoy on you, but you're probably wasting your
>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>> with this. The organization isn't going to change this particular
>>>>>>>> policy, no matter how many people would like to see it happen. For
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> record, I'm with you on this one, but I'm also no longer a
>>>>>>>> federationest
>>>>>>>> and haven't been for some years now. Too many differences of
>>>>>>>> opinion.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box
>>>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, <jbahm at pcdesk.net>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255
>>>>>>> Email:
>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>>>>> Website:
>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Arielle Silverman
>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255
>>>> Email:
>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>> Website:
>>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Arielle Silverman
>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>> Phone: 602-502-2255
>> Email:
>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>> Website:
>> www.nabslink.org
>>
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>>
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>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
>
> “My secret? See it, and stay focused on it.”
>
> — Shaquille O'Neal
>
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