[nabs-l] draft 2 - complete section with amendment
Peter Donahue
pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com
Sun Jun 19 18:04:01 UTC 2011
Hello Chris and everyone,
And how will wasting time with this horsepuckey raise funds to help more
blind students attend the national convention?
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] draft 2 - complete section with amendment
Kirt,
Haven't we said this before? If online voting doesn't work, set
up a mail-in voting system. Oh, and maybe we would have to have
a deadline for candidates to announce their candidacy. Arielle,
would this require that much radical change? That is, the
principle of the amendment itself, not the online voting.
Chris
"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
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Sent from my BrailleNote
----- Original Message -----
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 00:04:20 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] draft 2 - complete section with amendment
All,
I've already made my thoughts about this known. But the more I
think about it, the more I'm thinking I was wrong in suggesting
"virtual representation." The reason being the potential for
abuse
David, Arielle and I, already articulated. I was just too tired
to
connect the dots and realize that would apply to anyone who pays
dues-hypothetically, I could get all my ACB student friends
together
(I do have a few), give them all $5 to pay dues to NABS, then
they can
vote on the secure stream. This, of course, is assuming a system
for
online dues gets set up.
Just like the government often overrides personal rights for
the
safety and rights of society (look up smith v. Oregon if you
want a
funky legal example), we have to override some of the rights of
NABS
members who don't attend convention to ensure the security of our
organization. Sad? Absolutely. Necessary? I'm thinking so.
I'll
concede it violates a right you should have in a perfect world.
But,
unless you haven't realized yet, our world's a far cry from
perfect.
The potential for abuse is just too great. I agree with your
intent,
I really do. But I just don't think it's feasible.
In any case I wish you luck, Jorge. If you're seriously
wanting
this to pass, you'll need all the luck you can get...even divine
intervention might not make it happen. *grin*
Warmly,
Kirt
On 6/18/11, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
Excellent point, Kurt. I have heard of cases at state
conventions
where candidates brought all their friends who were not NFB
members
on the day of the election to pay their dues and vote in person.
Sure,
this could happen at a national convention, but it seems less
likely,
and much more likely if absentee voting were allowed. The
problem
could be minimized by requiring payment of dues a month or so in
advance of the election. But even then, how could we verify
payment
status virtually? The U.S. government allows mail-in voting,
but in
that case candidates are clearly identified in advance. In
short, even
if this amendment were permissible and philosophically
desirable, our
election procedures, from nomination of candidates to membership
verification, would have to be radically modified. I'm not
opposed to
change, but I question whether the dramatic investment of effort
required is worth the benefit of allowing a few more people to
vote.
As Darian emphasized, there are many, many other ways we can be
using
our energy and exercising our membership rights.
Respectfully,
Arielle
On 6/18/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
Jorge,
You're putting this out in the open for public scrutiny so I'm
going
to be honest. I really, really don't like the idea-it opens up
all
sorts of cans of worms that don't seem right to me. Consider
the
following.
We probably won't know all the candidates in the election
*until*
the actual business meeting. There could be someone who, for
whatever
reason, hasn't announced their candidacy for office on the list.
I
think it's only fair that anyone who's even considering voting
in the
election knows who all candidates are and has the opportunity to
listen to each introduction speech (even if it's only 30 seconds
long), before they cast their ballot. That's only fair to all
the
candidates involved. I would consider supporting an idea that
allows
those due-paying members in virtual attendance (through an
official
NABS skype call or the like) the opportunity to vote. Beyond
that, I
don't think you have much of a case.
Also, think about this. Let's say you, hypothetically, were
running
for NABS president. You get a bunch of your blind friends who
aren't
going to convention, who may or may not want anything to do with
the
Federation, and have them pay $5 so they're voting members. I'm
not
saying you'd do such a thing, I'm just saying you're leaving
that kind
of possibility open. No matter how secure the voting method is,
that
makes this something that could happen. Do other organizations
open
that door? Sure. Should we? I say no.
But the spirit behind the idea isn't bad. I think,
personally, if
we could ensure some sort of secure method for virtual
attendance at
the meeting for those due-paying members who can't make
convention,
I'd be all for allowing them to vote. Maybe set up a shoutcast
server
streaming the meeting, and only give the password to those
due-paying
members who request it? Make a conference call and only give
the
calling info/access code for those due-paying members who ask
for it?
If we instituted a system like that, I don't see why we couldn't
allow
that sort of absentee voting, but only for those who are in
virtual
attendance at the NABS business meeting and not for anyone else.
Am I
making any sense? Is that a possibility?
All the best,
Kirt
On 6/18/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
Arielle:
Not exactly,
I'm going to continue to edit the amendment myself and should be
able to
submit it before July second.
I posted this version so that people could see my amendment in
light of
the
entire section.
On Jun 18, 2011, at 7:59 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
Jorge,
Is this the final version you would like read at the NABS
meeting this
year? Or, would you like to wait until 2012 when you will be at
convention yourself and can present and defend it?
If you want it read in 2011 and you will not be at convention,
you
will need to find someone else who will be there to read and
defend
it.
Arielle
On 6/17/11, Joseph C. Lininger <jbahm at pcdesk.net> wrote:
George,
I hate to be a killjoy on you, but you're probably wasting your
time
with this. The organization isn't going to change this
particular
policy, no matter how many people would like to see it happen.
For the
record, I'm with you on this one, but I'm also no longer a
federationest
and haven't been for some years now. Too many differences of
opinion.
--
"All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box
Joseph C. Lininger, <jbahm at pcdesk.net
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Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone: 602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org
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Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone: 602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org
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