[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
Kirt Manwaring
kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Wed Jun 22 16:57:56 UTC 2011
Anmol,
It's a nice thought. Maybe it'll be possible, some day. Never say
never, ri9ght?
But here's the thing. The two organizations have evolved two
separate philosophies and mindsets. I'm doing something really bad
and generalizing. If anyone who knows more than I do wants to correct
me here, feel free.
The stance the ACB seems to take more often than not is to make the
environment more accessible for us. This is evidenced by their
support for audible street signals (which make a lot of sense to me,
I'm not really convinced one way or the other on that one yet),
tactile currency, descriptive movies, the provisions in the ADA to
make ATMs accessible, the 21st century communications act, their
support for Randolph-Shepherd, universal design in technology, etc.
They also use lots of their resources to fight descrimination, at
least it seems that way to me.
The NFB, on the other hand, seems to more often than not advocate us
adapting to the environment. This is evidenced by the strict
standards of training centers, pushing braille, opposition to the
tactile currency idea, advocacy of relying on traffic rather than
audible signals (which makes a lot of sense to me), our philosophy
that with the right training and opportunity we can compete on an
equal footing, the idea of the blind driver challenge, etc. Of course
the NFB sometimes pushes making changes in the environment (technology
bill of rights, Help America Vote Act, and the ADA which we also
supported), and the ACB does advocate for quality independence
training/O&M. But, those are the rough philosophies of the two
organizations, if we're going by their records. Is the ACB wrong?
No, I don't think so, but the NFB is more of a fit with my vision of
blindness. I just think thee two separate methodoligies willkeep us
from ever uniting as one group...and that's ok. We all have the
right, even the obligation to advocate for ourselves and those we
represent. The ACB does it their way, we do it ours. Sometimes there
is overlap, lots of times our philosophies take us in different
directions and put us on opposite sides of important issues. When our
aims are the same (or similar), we need to work together and present a
united front. When we are at odds (which we often are, the two
organizations really are very different), we both have the right to
push our separate agendas and attempt to get our policies implimented.
Sometimes they win, sometimes we win, that's politics. We don't have
to be bitter about it and, on the personal level, we can still be good
friends even when our politics are at odds.
Just my thoughts,
Kirt
On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Kirt,
> You bring some vary valid points, and yes we have beaten the
> democrats/republicans analogy to death but it keeps coming up as a
> comparison, so I will just say one thing about this. I may have already said
> this before on the list, but please furgive me if I have. The blind
> community is a to small of a community to be divided on partizen lines like
> democrats and republicans, and our challenges are to great to be divided
> like democrats and republicans. Sure there will be differences between
> members of the ACB and members of the NFB on how business should be
> conducted, but honestly there differences between members of each
> organization on how their organization should do business.
> True there were disagreement on how business should and leadership issues
> causing the split between the NFB and ACB, I consider the leadership issues
> to be pitty differences. Often when one candidate loses, they and their
> supporters go and form their on organization or chapter. This happened at my
> local NFB chapter and as a result we have two NFB chapters in a small town.
> Now some may consider this to be a good thing, but think about how much more
> we can achieve if we were one NFB chapter in Fayetteville in recruiting,
> fund raising and my volunteers for events. In addition, these types of
> childish arguements causes many blind people who otherwise may be involved
> in a blind organization to be a "fense sitters". Now using this analogy to
> NFB ACB, ACB does not have near the funds that NFB has, but they are not
> poor eather. Their attendence is not as large at the conventions, but it is
> not small eather. Think if both of these organizations were together how
> much more money we would have to do policy that each organization does or
> the advocacy work that each organization does, and think about how much
> larger the convention would be. We would pack two hotels full or near full.
> In addition, think about how much venders would be giving out in prizes
> because now insteading having to spend money to send their workers to two
> convention, they will only have to send their workers to one convention. In
> addition, most venders give out big prizes at each convention and if there
> was only one convention, they can give two prizes.
> However, you are right in that realistically the two organizations will not
> merge any time soon.
>
> best wishes,
> Anmol
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride
>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 2:51 PM
>> Anmol,
>> I don't really see a merger happening any time soon,
>> nor would I
>> want it to. We've all beaten the democrat/republican
>> analogy to
>> death...but imagine Barack Obama and Mitt Romney in the
>> same political
>> party. It just wouldn't work. There are huge
>> differences. It
>> doesn't make the NFB better for everyone, but it makes the
>> NFB better
>> for me. I have lots of respect for my friends in the
>> ACB who stand up
>> and fight for their agenda. Lots of the times, it's
>> the same as mine.
>> When it's not, we can talk without being jackasses to each
>> other and,
>> in a lot of cases, the disagreement actually strengthens
>> our
>> friendship.
>> I say diversity is good, competition is good, we
>> need a free market
>> of ideas. I respect ACB and the sincere people there
>> trying to make
>> the lives of blind people better. I happen to find
>> the Federation
>> philosophy and method more meaningful for me. I want
>> to understand
>> the split. From the little bit of studying I've done,
>> I don't really
>> think it was petty personal differences but rather
>> differing
>> philosophies about methodology and leadership that drove
>> the two
>> groups to separate. We can be different without being
>> petty. We can
>> disagree without being bigots. When our two
>> organizations come down
>> on opposite sides of important issues, as we often do, we
>> need not be
>> arrogant or self-rightious because we think we're
>> right. The fact is,
>> we disagree. And I think the disagreements are too
>> central to our
>> respective organizations for us to ever become one.
>> But that doesn't
>> mean we can't be friends, especially on a personal level.
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/21/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Kirt,
>> > You are bringing up some vary good points...
>> Understanding the history of
>> > the NFB and ACB is an import part in the history in
>> the blind movement and
>> > an important part in the history of two organizations.
>> Frankly in it is just
>> > my oppinion both organizations bring value and have
>> and continue to make a
>> > difference for blind people across America on a daily
>> bases. It is a shame
>> > that this split happened and just maybe the next
>> generation of blind
>> > individuals our generation or those who are younger
>> then can bring the two
>> > organizations together once again. Now this is just my
>> translation and my
>> > oppinion, but it seems to me that the NFB ACB
>> split happened over pitty
>> > differences and two individuals with different ideas
>> fighting for power. It
>> > seems to me that the hate the two organizations have
>> towards each other is
>> > not as strong amongest this generation. Infact many
>> members of NABS of ACB
>> > and NABS of NFB are friends in life and attack on the
>> other organization is
>> > usually not allow on each organization's mailing
>> list.
>> > Dave, you are right that ACB does not have the same
>> amount of people
>> > attending its' convention, but their attendence is not
>> small eather. I would
>> > guess 1500 attend the ACB convention and all the major
>> venders who attend
>> > the NFB convention attend the ACB convention. There
>> are also quite a few
>> > young people who attend the ACB convention.
>> > Yes ACB does its' business different then NFB, but
>> thats why they are a
>> > different organization. However, this does not make
>> them any worse or better
>> > then the NFB.
>> > Just my thoughts and it would be great if we keep the
>> attacks on each
>> > organization to as less as possible.
>> >
>> > Anmol
>> >
>> >
>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>> make me sad. Perhaps
>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
>> vague, like a breeze
>> > among flowers.
>> > Hellen Keller
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>> Our Eyes interview, Ride
>> >> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22,
>> 8:00 pm EDT
>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list"
>> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 12:25 PM
>> >> Dave,
>> >> How long ago was this? Things could've
>> changed
>> >> since you last went
>> >> if it's been a while, maybe? And, with respect,
>> this
>> >> is a big deal to
>> >> a lot of us. I know for me it's a lot more than
>> a
>> >> "small
>> >> consideration", I like to know the past as much as
>> I can
>> >> because it
>> >> shaped the here and now. I can read the books
>> put out
>> >> by each
>> >> organization-they probably both have lots of the
>> truth
>> >> intermingled
>> >> with their respective agendas. But nothing
>> beats
>> >> talking to people
>> >> who have studied the issues or, preferably, people
>> who were
>> >> actually
>> >> there.
>> >> All the best,
>> >> Kirt
>> >>
>> >> On 6/21/11, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > The two biggest things I noticed at an ACB
>> national
>> >> convention were
>> >> > that the crowd was considerably smaller than
>> that at a
>> >> NFB convention
>> >> > -- less exhibits etc. too. The second
>> things was
>> >> that there were few
>> >> > young persons -- some but noticeably not
>> very
>> >> many. One of the major
>> >> > things that the ACB has pushed in the past is
>> that it
>> >> is different
>> >> > from the NFB, it does things differently
>> etc.
>> >> This doesn't really
>> >> > matter to younger people though, so they have
>> little
>> >> reason to join, so
>> >> > don't.
>> >> >
>> >> > You guys can spend lots of time on the
>> history, and
>> >> differences if
>> >> > you want -- but what is the point. It
>> happened,
>> >> it is over with and
>> >> > done. Yes we can and should learn from our
>> >> history, but it is just
>> >> > one small consideration.
>> >> >
>> >> > Dave
>> >> >
>> >> > At 11:32 AM 6/20/2011, you wrote:
>> >> >>Dave,
>> >> >> I do see your point. Those
>> >> alive at the time are not, and will
>> >> >>probabluy never be friends. Heck,
>> getting
>> >> them to actually talk in
>> >> >>peace would be the achievement of the
>> >> century! if such a call were
>> >> >>to hypothetically happen, how could we
>> keep it from
>> >> opening old wounds
>> >> >>and stoking old fires?
>> >> >> Best,
>> >> >>Kirt
>> >> >>
>> >> >>On 6/20/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > Dave,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Our joint conference call isn't
>> associated
>> >> whatsoever with the
>> >> >> > proposition of a change in the NFB
>> >> bylaw. If I'm setting this
>> >> >> > up, which it appears I am, I didn't
>> even have
>> >> the intention of
>> >> >> > mentioning that proposition on the
>> >> call. The call's purpose is
>> >> >> > to learn the history of the NFB/ACB,
>> with a
>> >> little emphasis on
>> >> >> > the "civil war" period, from both
>> sides so we
>> >> are informed. I
>> >> >> > also want this call to start a
>> discussion on
>> >> the history of our
>> >> >> > movement and what we can learn from
>> it, not
>> >> only as
>> >> >> > Federationists, but as blind
>> students.
>> >> Jorge and I have found
>> >> >> > some ways that we can hold the call
>> without
>> >> making it a NABS
>> >> >> > membership call, if it is entirely
>> >> necessary. And as to your
>> >> >> > comments about them not being our
>> friends,
>> >> then using your
>> >> >> > argument, the Republicans should not
>> hear the
>> >> Democrats point of
>> >> >> > view in meetings of Congress, but
>> the two
>> >> parties should be
>> >> >> > separated from each other for fear
>> of their
>> >> own side being
>> >> >> > attacked. We can keep our same
>> >> opinions, and probably many
>> >> >> > Federationists and Council members
>> who attend
>> >> this call will.
>> >> >> > This is just a way that we can be
>> more
>> >> informed when forming
>> >> >> > these opinions.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Chris
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "A loss of sight, never a loss of
>> vision!"
>> >> (Camp Abilities motto)
>> >> >> > To learn more about Camp Abilities
>> and find a
>> >> local camp near
>> >> >> > you, just click on this link to
>> their
>> >> national Web site:
>> >> >> > www.campabilities.org.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps
>> visually
>> >> impaired youth in
>> >> >> > Maryland have the ability to
>> confidently say
>> >> "I can!" How? Click
>> >> >> > on this link to learn more and to
>> >> contribute:
>> >> >> > www.icanfoundation.info.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Sent from my BrailleNote
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> > From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
>> >> >> > To: National Association of Blind
>> Students
>> >> mailing list
>> >> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> > Date sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:39:01
>> -0500
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
>> >> Threw Our Eyes
>> >> >> > interview,Ride into History, Race
>> for
>> >> Independence, Wed. June
>> >> >> > 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Chris:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I don't want to friend anyone -- but
>> I think
>> >> this is a terrible
>> >> >> > idea! Remember the ACB split off
>> from
>> >> the NFB because they
>> >> >> > thought
>> >> >> > that we were all wrong, did our
>> business in
>> >> the wrong way etc. I
>> >> >> > am
>> >> >> > not going to say that we can't learn
>> anything
>> >> from the ACB, but
>> >> >> > not a
>> >> >> > history lesson. I was at a ACb
>> National
>> >> Convention a few years
>> >> >> > ago
>> >> >> > -- and heard the NFB attacked openly
>> and
>> >> indirectly. These folks
>> >> >> > are
>> >> >> > not our friends. We can work
>> jointly at
>> >> times, and should, and I
>> >> >> > don't think we should be against
>> them, for
>> >> the sake of it, as
>> >> >> > some of
>> >> >> > my old-timer friends are -- but a
>> joint
>> >> conference call on
>> >> >> > consideration of a change to a NFB
>> division
>> >> bylaw is going to
>> >> >> > far!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Dave
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > At 12:53 PM 6/19/2011, you wrote:
>> >> >> > Kirt,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I have a friend in the Council that
>> I will
>> >> see Monday night, so I
>> >> >> > plan to give this idea to him and
>> ask if he
>> >> knows someone in the
>> >> >> > Council that would be knowledgeable
>> enough
>> >> and willing to attend
>> >> >> > this call on behalf of the Council
>> as an
>> >> expert on their history.
>> >> >> > Maybe it would be better if someone
>> like me
>> >> moderated. Keep in
>> >> >> > mind
>> >> >> > that I did volunteer, but I'm not
>> degrading
>> >> anyone else, I'm just
>> >> >> > using myself as an example here.
>> I'm a
>> >> member of the Federation,
>> >> >> > but I'm not a hard-line "NFB is
>> good, ACB
>> >> bad" person, so I
>> >> >> > wouldn't
>> >> >> > show any bias to NFB or ACB. I
>> also am
>> >> not currently a
>> >> >> > contributing
>> >> >> > (due-paying) member of NABS, so I'm
>> not a
>> >> leader in it of
>> >> >> > course. That way, we wouldn't have
>> any
>> >> bias.
>> >> >> > I think it would be easy to have it
>> jointly
>> >> attended even if it's
>> >> >> > an
>> >> >> > official NABS call. If we have a
>> >> representative of ACB on the
>> >> >> > call,
>> >> >> > we could probably easily get other
>> members of
>> >> ACB on the call to
>> >> >> > kind of back up or add to that
>> guest
>> >> speaker's information.
>> >> >> > Thoughts?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Chris
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "A loss of sight, never a loss of
>> vision!"
>> >> (Camp Abilities motto)
>> >> >> > To learn more about Camp Abilities
>> and find a
>> >> local camp near
>> >> >> > you,
>> >> >> > just click on this link to their
>> national Web
>> >> site:
>> >> >> > www.campabilities.org.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps
>> visually
>> >> impaired youth in
>> >> >> > Maryland
>> >> >> > have the ability to confidently say
>> "I can!"
>> >> How? Click on this
>> >> >> > link
>> >> >> > to learn more and to contribute:
>> >> www.icanfoundation.info.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Sent from my BrailleNote
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> > From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> >> >> > To: National Association of Blind
>> Students
>> >> mailing list
>> >> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> > Date sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 00:45:08
>> -0600
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
>> >> Threw Our Eyes
>> >> >> > interview,Ride into History, Race
>> for
>> >> Independence, Wed. June
>> >> >> > 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Carley,
>> >> >> > The two organizations don't
>> >> really claim to be "friends" as
>> >> >> > such-it
>> >> >> > seems like now they just mostly
>> ignore each
>> >> other, work jointly
>> >> >> > when
>> >> >> > their agendas converge and play
>> politics when
>> >> they don't. Maybe
>> >> >> > they
>> >> >> > aren't enemies, but the official
>> >> organizations don't really
>> >> >> > advertise
>> >> >> > themselves as friends.
>> >> >> > While it would be great to
>> >> have people from both organizations
>> >> >> > participate in a joint call, I don't
>> see it
>> >> happening. Here's
>> >> >> > hoping
>> >> >> > though, I guess It's certainly a
>> nice
>> >> thought-although, if the
>> >> >> > call
>> >> >> > were to have presentations from
>> members of
>> >> both organizations, it
>> >> >> > probably should be jointly moderated
>> and
>> >> attended. The NFB (or
>> >> >> > probably even NABS) would, I'm
>> betting, not
>> >> be inclined to go
>> >> >> > there.
>> >> >> > So maybe we'll have better luck
>> going through
>> >> unnoficial channels
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > setting this up on our own? No
>> need to
>> >> make it an official event
>> >> >> > for
>> >> >> > either the Federation or the
>> Council-I think
>> >> it's safe to say
>> >> >> > that
>> >> >> > idea was doomed to fail before it
>> was brought
>> >> up.
>> >> >> > Best,
>> >> >> > Kirt
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On 6/18/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > And, as I said before, I would be
>> very
>> >> willing to moderate this
>> >> >> > call. Please keep me posted!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Chris
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "A loss of sight, never a loss of
>> vision!"
>> >> (Camp Abilities motto)
>> >> >> > To learn more about Camp Abilities
>> and find a
>> >> local camp near
>> >> >> > you, just click on this link to
>> their
>> >> national Web site:
>> >> >> > www.campabilities.org.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps
>> visually
>> >> impaired youth in
>> >> >> > Maryland have the ability to
>> confidently say
>> >> "I can!" How? Click
>> >> >> > on this link to learn more and to
>> >> contribute:
>> >> >> > www.icanfoundation.info.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Sent from my BrailleNote
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ----- Original Message
>> >> -----
>> >> >> > From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
>> >> >> > To: National Association of Blind
>> Students
>> >> mailing list
>> >> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> > Date sent: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 18:51:04
>> -0400
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
>> >> Threw Our Eyes
>> >> >> > interview,Ride into History, Race
>> for
>> >> Independence, Wed. June
>> >> >> > 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > This call would be very interesting
>> >> indeed. If representatives
>> >> >> > from both organizations are willing
>> to
>> >> participate, it can really
>> >> >> > be productive in many ways.
>> >> >> > On Jun 18, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Carly
>> Mihalakis
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Good morning, list,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > A few days ago, someone on
>> >> the NABS list suggested a
>> >> >> > conference
>> >> >> > call bringing clarity to a younger
>> >> generation. What, exactly, is
>> >> >> > the history of the ideological
>> parting of
>> >> ways, between the
>> >> >> > Federation and the Council? Does
>> anybody know
>> >> today, the history
>> >> >> > of this division or is it a product
>> of sheer
>> >> habit as is the case
>> >> >> > with Republicans and Democrats? If
>> such a
>> >> meeting of both
>> >> >> > entities were to take place, There
>> ought to
>> >> be representation of
>> >> >> > both organizations so that a
>> wholistic
>> >> portrait of this issue
>> >> >> > can be exercised.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > and its split from the
>> >> ACB. This seems like a productive and
>> >> >> > enlightening discussion but I
>> wonder, if the
>> >> Federation and the
>> >> >> > council claim to be friends, should
>> there not
>> >> be representation
>> >> >> > from both sides, identifying
>> >> their position and whereabouts
>> >> >> > they stand, in this? At
>> >> >> > ---- Original Message
>> >> ------
>> >> >> > From: "Joe Ruffalo" <nfbnj at yahoo.com>
>> >> (by way of David
>> >> >> > Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)
>> >> >> > Subject:
>> >> [Nfbnet-members-list] Thru Our Eyes interview,
>> Ride
>> >> >> > into History,Race for
>> Independence,
>> >> Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>> >> >> > Date sent: Fri, 17 Jun 2011
>> >> 19:26:45 -0500
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Save The Date:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Wednesday, June 22,at
>> >> 8:00 pm eastern, Thru Our Eyes host,
>> >> >> > Joe
>> >> >> > Ruffalo will interview
>> >> Parnell Diggs, chair of the Imagination
>> >> >> > Fund,
>> >> >> > Race for Independence.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The interview will highlight
>> >> current and past grants awarded to
>> >> >> > state
>> >> >> > affiliates and chapters.
>> >> >> > In addition, featured will
>> >> be Imaginators who will share the
>> >> >> > methods
>> >> >> > to make the ask to make a
>> >> difference in changing what it means
>> >> >> > to be blind.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Special highlight of the
>> >> interview will be the announcement of
>> >> >> > the 30
>> >> >> > winners who will have the
>> >> opportunity to be driven by a blind
>> >> >> > driver
>> >> >> > while attending
>> >> >> > the national convention in
>> >> Orlando.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Witness the opportunity to
>> >> ride into history!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > To watch and listen to the
>> >> interview, please visit the
>> >> >> > following:
>> >> >> > <http://www.thruoureyes.org>www.thruoureyes.org
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > For JAWS users and mobile
>> >> phone users, please visit the
>> >> >> > following:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > m.thruoureyes.org
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Other options to watch or
>> >> listen can be found on the sites
>> >> >> > listed above.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > To call in with comments or
>> >> questions, please dial the
>> >> >> > following:
>> >> >> > 1 888 572 0141
>> >> >> > Join us to Make a
>> >> Difference!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or
>> get your
>> >> account info for
>> >> > nabs-l:
>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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