[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
Kirt Manwaring
kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Wed Jun 22 21:22:18 UTC 2011
Josh and Homberto,
You're right to be concerned, I think. If possible, I'd say try to
ask a clerk/cash register worker/bank teller about your money when
other people are there. It's not foolproof, but I'd say you're almost
guaranteed that none of those people will screw over a blind person
with other people watching. It's not ideal, it's not perfect, but I'd
say 99 times out of 100 you'll be fine. That's another reason to use
a card whenever possible to try and keep that one out of 100 from
happening.
Best,
Kirt
On 6/22/11, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, but what happens if I have a bill in my hand and I want to know what
> it is, but there is not a single sighted soul to tell me what it is? I know
> is a free alternative but, is it truly worth it? And, what if that sighted
> person lies about the amount of money that is on the bill?
> I would probably support ideas like the KNFB reader and the iBill identifier
> if they were even cheaper. If they were so, I would buy one or the other,
> but so far, I can not afford either one.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Kirt Manwaring
> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride
> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>
> Joshua,
> Valid points. I've got a solution for you that doesn't cost a
> thing. Get a sighted person you trust to tell you what your bills are
> when you get them, and fold them so you can identify them in the
> future. Inconvenient, maybe...but hey, if we're going to fit in to
> the world we've got to put up with some annoyances.
> BTW, what's wrong with a 20 cell display? Not ideal maybe but, hey,
> maybe a rehab counselor would be more willing to get something with
> that much of a price reduction as compared to a 40 cell. I used a
> 20-cell PAC mate all through High School, an 18-cell Apex for my first
> year of college, and the shorter displays work fine.
> Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 6/22/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> This is what Allan Ramos told me.
>> He was a trainee at LWSB, when I was there.
>> He's a member of the CCB, (California Council of the Blind,) (not to
>> be confused with Colorado Center for the Blind.)
>> I'm going on what he said.
>> Paper currency in the US, started with Andrew Jackson.
>> Glenn Beck talks about this in great deal, in his book, "Growth."
>> I've heard, that the debit cards are an alternative, but we don't have
>> such a system, that is accessible to us, in my small town.
>> It's either what I suggested, or we should ask the NFB to push the
>> companies that make accessible technologies, to make their technology
>> affordable for all blind citizens, that need it.
>> That's my problem with the Blind Driver Challenge, (for example.)
>> They will make this car, but they have to charge an obseen amount of
>> money, for it.
>> I'm not going to be able to afford it.
>> I can't afford a Pac Mate, with a 32 cell Braille display, and my
>> state won't purchase it, for my schooling.
>> I'm bringing this up, because, (back to the currency,) the IBill costs
> $100.
>> The IBill, (I felt of one at convention last year,) is as small as a
>> giga-pet.
>> I got one of those, for $5, when I was a child!
>> Why would I pay $100 for something that small?
>> Make it affordable!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Josh,
>>> Your idea to have only coins is a good idea, but not realistic. Can you
>>> see
>>> a 50 dollar coin or even 20 dollar coin? Paper currency has been and will
>>> always be a fabric of this country as it is in every country. Which
>>> country
>>> has only coins and know paper currency?
>>> I do not believe, but I could be wrong and please correct me, but I do
> not
>>> think that ACB is advocating only braille notes. From my understanding
>>> they
>>> have been advocating a form of paper currency which is accessible and
>>> afordable. Ovisily braille is not the most afordable means to make paper
>>> currency accessible.
>>>
>>> Anmol
>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
> breeze
>>> among flowers.
>>> Hellen Keller
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview,
>>>> Ride
>>>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 1:51 PM
>>>> Anmol, it's amazing that you bring up
>>>> accessible currency.
>>>> What the ACB wants, is Brailled currency.
>>>> That isn't going to work.
>>>> I have the answer to the problem.
>>>> First of all, it's political.
>>>> I'm tired of people saying that the conservatives aren't on
>>>> the side
>>>> of the blind.
>>>> When it comes to currency, they are.
>>>> Remember, when Reagan mentioned a return to the gold
>>>> standard?
>>>> Coins are the answer to the problem.
>>>> We can identify the coins, by their texture.
>>>> We can't do this with paper currency.
>>>> That solves the problems with our currency.
>>>> This would help everyone, including us.
>>>> #1. You can't inflate, or deflate coins.
>>>> #2. You can't counterfeit coins.
>>>> #3, (Here's the thing that will help blind people,) We can
>>>> identify
>>>> coins by their texture.
>>>> Would there have to be alot of changes made?
>>>> Yes, but is it worth it?
>>>> Yes!
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Jessica,
>>>> > Good point. In addition, I would much rather a blind
>>>> person to feel mobil
>>>> > even if they don't have good mobility skills and
>>>> frankly I would rather have
>>>> > audible street lights then to see a blind person get
>>>> killed because they
>>>> > could not figure out how the traffic goes.
>>>> > Anmol
>>>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>>>> make me sad. Perhaps
>>>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
>>>> vague, like a breeze
>>>> > among flowers.
>>>> > Hellen Keller
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> From: Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>>>> Our Eyes interview, Ride
>>>> >> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22,
>>>> 8:00 pm EDT
>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students
>>>> mailing list"
>>>> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 1:01 PM
>>>> >> There are certain types of
>>>> >> intersections where no matter how long you stand
>>>> there and
>>>> >> listen to traffic you will never hear a good cycle
>>>> so in
>>>> >> those cases I actually support aps. Just keep that
>>>> in mind
>>>> >> when someone talks about every intersection being
>>>> crossable
>>>> >> by listening to traffic.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Jun 22, 2011, at 9:57 AM, Kirt Manwaring
> <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Anmol,
>>>> >> > It's a nice thought. Maybe it'll
>>>> be
>>>> >> possible, some day. Never say
>>>> >> > never, ri9ght?
>>>> >> > But here's the thing. The two
>>>> >> organizations have evolved two
>>>> >> > separate philosophies and mindsets. I'm
>>>> doing
>>>> >> something really bad
>>>> >> > and generalizing. If anyone who knows
>>>> more than
>>>> >> I do wants to correct
>>>> >> > me here, feel free.
>>>> >> > The stance the ACB seems to take more
>>>> often than
>>>> >> not is to make the
>>>> >> > environment more accessible for us.
>>>> This is
>>>> >> evidenced by their
>>>> >> > support for audible street signals (which
>>>> make a lot
>>>> >> of sense to me,
>>>> >> > I'm not really convinced one way or the other
>>>> on that
>>>> >> one yet),
>>>> >> > tactile currency, descriptive movies, the
>>>> provisions
>>>> >> in the ADA to
>>>> >> > make ATMs accessible, the 21st century
>>>> communications
>>>> >> act, their
>>>> >> > support for Randolph-Shepherd, universal
>>>> design in
>>>> >> technology, etc.
>>>> >> > They also use lots of their resources to
>>>> fight
>>>> >> descrimination, at
>>>> >> > least it seems that way to me.
>>>> >> > The NFB, on the other hand, seems to
>>>> more often
>>>> >> than not advocate us
>>>> >> > adapting to the environment. This is
>>>> evidenced
>>>> >> by the strict
>>>> >> > standards of training centers, pushing
>>>> braille,
>>>> >> opposition to the
>>>> >> > tactile currency idea, advocacy of relying on
>>>> traffic
>>>> >> rather than
>>>> >> > audible signals (which makes a lot of sense
>>>> to me),
>>>> >> our philosophy
>>>> >> > that with the right training and opportunity
>>>> we can
>>>> >> compete on an
>>>> >> > equal footing, the idea of the blind driver
>>>> challenge,
>>>> >> etc. Of course
>>>> >> > the NFB sometimes pushes making changes in
>>>> the
>>>> >> environment (technology
>>>> >> > bill of rights, Help America Vote Act, and
>>>> the ADA
>>>> >> which we also
>>>> >> > supported), and the ACB does advocate for
>>>> quality
>>>> >> independence
>>>> >> > training/O&M. But, those are the
>>>> rough
>>>> >> philosophies of the two
>>>> >> > organizations, if we're going by their
>>>> records.
>>>> >> Is the ACB wrong?
>>>> >> > No, I don't think so, but the NFB is more of
>>>> a fit
>>>> >> with my vision of
>>>> >> > blindness. I just think thee two
>>>> separate
>>>> >> methodoligies willkeep us
>>>> >> > from ever uniting as one group...and that's
>>>> ok.
>>>> >> We all have the
>>>> >> > right, even the obligation to advocate for
>>>> ourselves
>>>> >> and those we
>>>> >> > represent. The ACB does it their way,
>>>> we do it
>>>> >> ours. Sometimes there
>>>> >> > is overlap, lots of times our philosophies
>>>> take us in
>>>> >> different
>>>> >> > directions and put us on opposite sides of
>>>> important
>>>> >> issues. When our
>>>> >> > aims are the same (or similar), we need to
>>>> work
>>>> >> together and present a
>>>> >> > united front. When we are at odds
>>>> (which we
>>>> >> often are, the two
>>>> >> > organizations really are very different), we
>>>> both have
>>>> >> the right to
>>>> >> > push our separate agendas and attempt to get
>>>> our
>>>> >> policies implimented.
>>>> >> > Sometimes they win, sometimes we win, that's
>>>> >> politics. We don't have
>>>> >> > to be bitter about it and, on the personal
>>>> level, we
>>>> >> can still be good
>>>> >> > friends even when our politics are at odds.
>>>> >> > Just my thoughts,
>>>> >> > Kirt
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >> Kirt,
>>>> >> >> You bring some vary valid points, and yes
>>>> we have
>>>> >> beaten the
>>>> >> >> democrats/republicans analogy to
>>>> death but
>>>> >> it keeps coming up as a
>>>> >> >> comparison, so I will just say one thing
>>>> about
>>>> >> this. I may have already said
>>>> >> >> this before on the list, but please
>>>> furgive me if
>>>> >> I have. The blind
>>>> >> >> community is a to small of a community to
>>>> be
>>>> >> divided on partizen lines like
>>>> >> >> democrats and republicans, and our
>>>> challenges are
>>>> >> to great to be divided
>>>> >> >> like democrats and republicans. Sure
>>>> there will be
>>>> >> differences between
>>>> >> >> members of the ACB and members of the NFB
>>>> on how
>>>> >> business should be
>>>> >> >> conducted, but honestly there differences
>>>> between
>>>> >> members of each
>>>> >> >> organization on how their organization
>>>> should do
>>>> >> business.
>>>> >> >> True there were disagreement on how
>>>> business
>>>> >> should and leadership issues
>>>> >> >> causing the split between the NFB and
>>>> ACB, I
>>>> >> consider the leadership issues
>>>> >> >> to be pitty differences. Often when one
>>>> candidate
>>>> >> loses, they and their
>>>> >> >> supporters go and form their on
>>>> organization or
>>>> >> chapter. This happened at my
>>>> >> >> local NFB chapter and as a result we have
>>>> two NFB
>>>> >> chapters in a small town.
>>>> >> >> Now some may consider this to be a good
>>>> thing, but
>>>> >> think about how much more
>>>> >> >> we can achieve if we were one NFB chapter
>>>> in
>>>> >> Fayetteville in recruiting,
>>>> >> >> fund raising and my volunteers for
>>>> events. In
>>>> >> addition, these types of
>>>> >> >> childish arguements causes many blind
>>>> people who
>>>> >> otherwise may be involved
>>>> >> >> in a blind organization to be a "fense
>>>> sitters".
>>>> >> Now using this analogy to
>>>> >> >> NFB ACB, ACB does not have near the funds
>>>> that NFB
>>>> >> has, but they are not
>>>> >> >> poor eather. Their attendence is not as
>>>> large at
>>>> >> the conventions, but it is
>>>> >> >> not small eather. Think if both of these
>>>> >> organizations were together how
>>>> >> >> much more money we would have to do
>>>> policy that
>>>> >> each organization does or
>>>> >> >> the advocacy work that each
>>>> organization
>>>> >> does, and think about how much
>>>> >> >> larger the convention would be. We would
>>>> pack two
>>>> >> hotels full or near full.
>>>> >> >> In addition, think about how much venders
>>>> would be
>>>> >> giving out in prizes
>>>> >> >> because now insteading having to spend
>>>> money to
>>>> >> send their workers to two
>>>> >> >> convention, they will only have to send
>>>> their
>>>> >> workers to one convention. In
>>>> >> >> addition, most venders give out big
>>>> prizes at each
>>>> >> convention and if there
>>>> >> >> was only one convention, they can give
>>>> two
>>>> >> prizes.
>>>> >> >> However, you are right in that
>>>> realistically the
>>>> >> two organizations will not
>>>> >> >> merge any time soon.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> best wishes,
>>>> >> >> Anmol
>>>> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and
>>>> they
>>>> >> never make me sad. Perhaps
>>>> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at
>>>> times; but it
>>>> >> is vague, like a breeze
>>>> >> >> among flowers.
>>>> >> >> Hellen Keller
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt Manwaring
>>>> <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>>>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
>>>> >> Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride
>>>> >> >>> into History, Race for Independence,
>>>> Wed. June
>>>> >> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>>> >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind
>>>> Students
>>>> >> mailing list"
>>>> >> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> >>> Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 2:51
>>>> PM
>>>> >> >>> Anmol,
>>>> >> >>> I don't really see a
>>>> merger
>>>> >> happening any time soon,
>>>> >> >>> nor would I
>>>> >> >>> want it to. We've all beaten
>>>> the
>>>> >> democrat/republican
>>>> >> >>> analogy to
>>>> >> >>> death...but imagine Barack Obama and
>>>> Mitt
>>>> >> Romney in the
>>>> >> >>> same political
>>>> >> >>> party. It just wouldn't work.
>>>> >> There are huge
>>>> >> >>> differences. It
>>>> >> >>> doesn't make the NFB better for
>>>> everyone, but
>>>> >> it makes the
>>>> >> >>> NFB better
>>>> >> >>> for me. I have lots of respect
>>>> for my
>>>> >> friends in the
>>>> >> >>> ACB who stand up
>>>> >> >>> and fight for their agenda.
>>>> Lots of the
>>>> >> times, it's
>>>> >> >>> the same as mine.
>>>> >> >>> When it's not, we can talk without
>>>> being
>>>> >> jackasses to each
>>>> >> >>> other and,
>>>> >> >>> in a lot of cases, the disagreement
>>>> actually
>>>> >> strengthens
>>>> >> >>> our
>>>> >> >>> friendship.
>>>> >> >>> I say diversity is
>>>> good,
>>>> >> competition is good, we
>>>> >> >>> need a free market
>>>> >> >>> of ideas. I respect ACB and the
>>>> sincere
>>>> >> people there
>>>> >> >>> trying to make
>>>> >> >>> the lives of blind people
>>>> better. I
>>>> >> happen to find
>>>> >> >>> the Federation
>>>> >> >>> philosophy and method more meaningful
>>>> for
>>>> >> me. I want
>>>> >> >>> to understand
>>>> >> >>> the split. From the little bit
>>>> of
>>>> >> studying I've done,
>>>> >> >>> I don't really
>>>> >> >>> think it was petty personal
>>>> differences but
>>>> >> rather
>>>> >> >>> differing
>>>> >> >>> philosophies about methodology and
>>>> leadership
>>>> >> that drove
>>>> >> >>> the two
>>>> >> >>> groups to separate. We can be
>>>> different
>>>> >> without being
>>>> >> >>> petty. We can
>>>> >> >>> disagree without being bigots.
>>>> When our
>>>> >> two
>>>> >> >>> organizations come down
>>>> >> >>> on opposite sides of important
>>>> issues, as we
>>>> >> often do, we
>>>> >> >>> need not be
>>>> >> >>> arrogant or self-rightious because we
>>>> think
>>>> >> we're
>>>> >> >>> right. The fact is,
>>>> >> >>> we disagree. And I think the
>>>> >> disagreements are too
>>>> >> >>> central to our
>>>> >> >>> respective organizations for us to
>>>> ever become
>>>> >> one.
>>>> >> >>> But that doesn't
>>>> >> >>> mean we can't be friends, especially
>>>> on a
>>>> >> personal level.
>>>> >> >>> Best,
>>>> >> >>> Kirt
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> On 6/21/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>>>> >> >>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>> Kirt,
>>>> >> >>>> You are bringing up some vary
>>>> good
>>>> >> points...
>>>> >> >>> Understanding the history of
>>>> >> >>>> the NFB and ACB is an import part
>>>> in the
>>>> >> history in
>>>> >> >>> the blind movement and
>>>> >> >>>> an important part in the history
>>>> of two
>>>> >> organizations.
>>>> >> >>> Frankly in it is just
>>>> >> >>>> my oppinion both organizations
>>>> bring value
>>>> >> and have
>>>> >> >>> and continue to make a
>>>> >> >>>> difference for blind people
>>>> across America
>>>> >> on a daily
>>>> >> >>> bases. It is a shame
>>>> >> >>>> that this split happened and just
>>>> maybe
>>>> >> the next
>>>> >> >>> generation of blind
>>>> >> >>>> individuals our generation or
>>>> those who
>>>> >> are younger
>>>> >> >>> then can bring the two
>>>> >> >>>> organizations together once
>>>> again. Now
>>>> >> this is just my
>>>> >> >>> translation and my
>>>> >> >>>> oppinion, but it seems to
>>>> me that
>>>> >> the NFB ACB
>>>> >> >>> split happened over pitty
>>>> >> >>>> differences and two individuals
>>>> with
>>>> >> different ideas
>>>> >> >>> fighting for power. It
>>>> >> >>>> seems to me that the hate the
>>>> two
>>>> >> organizations have
>>>> >> >>> towards each other is
>>>> >> >>>> not as strong amongest this
>>>> generation.
>>>> >> Infact many
>>>> >> >>> members of NABS of ACB
>>>> >> >>>> and NABS of NFB are friends in
>>>> life and
>>>> >> attack on the
>>>> >> >>> other organization is
>>>> >> >>>> usually not
>>>> allow on each
>>>> >> organization's mailing
>>>> >> >>> list.
>>>> >> >>>> Dave, you are right that ACB does
>>>> not have
>>>> >> the same
>>>> >> >>> amount of people
>>>> >> >>>> attending its' convention, but
>>>> their
>>>> >> attendence is not
>>>> >> >>> small eather. I would
>>>> >> >>>> guess 1500 attend the ACB
>>>> convention and
>>>> >> all the major
>>>> >> >>> venders who attend
>>>> >> >>>> the NFB convention attend the
>>>> ACB
>>>> >> convention. There
>>>> >> >>> are also quite a few
>>>> >> >>>> young people who attend the ACB
>>>> >> convention.
>>>> >> >>>> Yes ACB does its' business
>>>> different then
>>>> >> NFB, but
>>>> >> >>> thats why they are a
>>>> >> >>>> different organization. However,
>>>> this does
>>>> >> not make
>>>> >> >>> them any worse or better
>>>> >> >>>> then the NFB.
>>>> >> >>>> Just my thoughts and it would be
>>>> great if
>>>> >> we keep the
>>>> >> >>> attacks on each
>>>> >> >>>> organization to as less as
>>>> possible.
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> Anmol
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> I seldom think about my
>>>> limitations, and
>>>> >> they never
>>>> >> >>> make me sad. Perhaps
>>>> >> >>>> there is just a touch of yearning
>>>> at
>>>> >> times; but it is
>>>> >> >>> vague, like a breeze
>>>> >> >>>> among flowers.
>>>> >> >>>> Hellen Keller
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt
>>>> Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>> >> >>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>>>> >> [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>>>> >> >>> Our Eyes interview, Ride
>>>> >> >>>>> into History, Race for
>>>> Independence,
>>>> >> Wed. June 22,
>>>> >> >>> 8:00 pm EDT
>>>> >> >>>>> To: "National Association of
>>>> Blind
>>>> >> Students
>>>> >> >>> mailing list"
>>>> >> >>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> >>>>> Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011,
>>>> 12:25
>>>> >> PM
>>>> >> >>>>> Dave,
>>>> >> >>>>> How long ago
>>>> was
>>>> >> this? Things could've
>>>> >> >>> changed
>>>> >> >>>>> since you last went
>>>> >> >>>>> if it's been a while, maybe?
>>>> >> And, with respect,
>>>> >> >>> this
>>>> >> >>>>> is a big deal to
>>>> >> >>>>> a lot of us. I know for
>>>> me it's
>>>> >> a lot more than
>>>> >> >>> a
>>>> >> >>>>> "small
>>>> >> >>>>> consideration", I like to
>>>> know the
>>>> >> past as much as
>>>> >> >>> I can
>>>> >> >>>>> because it
>>>> >> >>>>> shaped the here and
>>>> now. I can
>>>> >> read the books
>>>> >> >>> put out
>>>> >> >>>>> by each
>>>> >> >>>>> organization-they probably
>>>> both have
>>>> >> lots of the
>>>> >> >>> truth
>>>> >> >>>>> intermingled
>>>> >> >>>>> with their respective
>>>> agendas.
>>>> >> But nothing
>>>> >> >>> beats
>>>> >> >>>>> talking to people
>>>> >> >>>>> who have studied the issues
>>>> or,
>>>> >> preferably, people
>>>> >> >>> who were
>>>> >> >>>>> actually
>>>> >> >>>>> there.
>>>> >> >>>>> All the
>>>> best,
>>>> >> >>>>> Kirt
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> On 6/21/11, David Andrews
>>>> <dandrews at visi.com>
>>>> >> >>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>> The two biggest things I
>>>> noticed
>>>> >> at an ACB
>>>> >> >>> national
>>>> >> >>>>> convention were
>>>> >> >>>>>> that the crowd was
>>>> considerably
>>>> >> smaller than
>>>> >> >>> that at a
>>>> >> >>>>> NFB convention
>>>> >> >>>>>> -- less exhibits etc.
>>>> too.
>>>> >> The second
>>>> >> >>> things was
>>>> >> >>>>> that there were few
>>>> >> >>>>>> young persons -- some
>>>> but
>>>> >> noticeably not
>>>> >> >>> very
>>>> >> >>>>> many. One of the major
>>>> >> >>>>>> things that the ACB has
>>>> pushed in
>>>> >> the past is
>>>> >> >>> that it
>>>> >> >>>>> is different
>>>> >> >>>>>> from the NFB, it does
>>>> things
>>>> >> differently
>>>> >> >>> etc.
>>>> >> >>>>> This doesn't really
>>>> >> >>>>>> matter to younger people
>>>> though,
>>>> >> so they have
>>>> >> >>> little
>>>> >> >>>>> reason to join, so
>>>> >> >>>>>> don't.
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> You guys can spend lots
>>>> of time on
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> >>> history, and
>>>> >> >>>>> differences if
>>>> >> >>>>>> you want -- but what is
>>>> the
>>>> >> point. It
>>>> >> >>> happened,
>>>> >> >>>>> it is over with and
>>>> >> >>>>>> done. Yes we can
>>>> and should
>>>> >> learn from our
>>>> >> >>>>> history, but it is just
>>>> >> >>>>>> one small consideration.
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> Dave
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> At 11:32 AM 6/20/2011,
>>>> you wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>>> Dave,
>>>> >> >>>>>>> I do see
>>>> your
>>>> >> point. Those
>>>> >> >>>>> alive at the time are not,
>>>> and will
>>>> >> >>>>>>> probabluy never be
>>>> >> friends. Heck,
>>>> >> >>> getting
>>>> >> >>>>> them to actually talk in
>>>> >> >>>>>>> peace would be the
>>>> achievement
>>>> >> of the
>>>> >> >>>>> century! if
>>>> such a
>>>> >> call were
>>>> >> >>>>>>> to hypothetically
>>>> happen, how
>>>> >> could we
>>>> >> >>> keep it from
>>>> >> >>>>> opening old wounds
>>>> >> >>>>>>> and stoking old
>>>> fires?
>>>> >> >>>>>>> Best,
>>>> >> >>>>>>> Kirt
>>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>> On 6/20/11, Chris
>>>> Nusbaum
>>>> >> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> >> >>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Our joint
>>>> conference call
>>>> >> isn't
>>>> >> >>> associated
>>>> >> >>>>> whatsoever with the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> proposition of a
>>>> change in
>>>> >> the NFB
>>>> >> >>>>> bylaw. If I'm setting
>>>> this
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> up, which it
>>>> appears I am,
>>>> >> I didn't
>>>> >> >>> even have
>>>> >> >>>>> the intention of
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> mentioning that
>>>> >> proposition on the
>>>> >> >>>>> call. The call's
>>>> purpose is
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> to learn the
>>>> history of
>>>> >> the NFB/ACB,
>>>> >> >>> with a
>>>> >> >>>>> little emphasis on
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> the "civil war"
>>>> period,
>>>> >> from both
>>>> >> >>> sides so we
>>>> >> >>>>> are informed. I
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> also want this
>>>> call to
>>>> >> start a
>>>> >> >>> discussion on
>>>> >> >>>>> the history of our
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> movement and what
>>>> we can
>>>> >> learn from
>>>> >> >>> it, not
>>>> >> >>>>> only as
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Federationists,
>>>> but as
>>>> >> blind
>>>> >> >>> students.
>>>> >> >>>>> Jorge and I have found
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> some ways that we
>>>> can hold
>>>> >> the call
>>>> >> >>> without
>>>> >> >>>>> making it a NABS
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> membership call,
>>>> if it is
>>>> >> entirely
>>>> >> >>>>> necessary. And as to
>>>> your
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> comments about
>>>> them not
>>>> >> being our
>>>> >> >>> friends,
>>>> >> >>>>> then using your
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> argument, the
>>>> Republicans
>>>> >> should not
>>>> >> >>> hear the
>>>> >> >>>>> Democrats point of
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> view in meetings
>>>> of
>>>> >> Congress, but
>>>> >> >>> the two
>>>> >> >>>>> parties should be
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> separated from
>>>> each other
>>>> >> for fear
>>>> >> >>> of their
>>>> >> >>>>> own side being
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> attacked.
>>>> We can
>>>> >> keep our same
>>>> >> >>>>> opinions, and probably many
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Federationists
>>>> and Council
>>>> >> members
>>>> >> >>> who attend
>>>> >> >>>>> this call will.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> This is just a
>>>> way that we
>>>> >> can be
>>>> >> >>> more
>>>> >> >>>>> informed when forming
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> these opinions.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> "A loss of sight,
>>>> never a
>>>> >> loss of
>>>> >> >>> vision!"
>>>> >> >>>>> (Camp Abilities motto)
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> To learn more
>>>> about Camp
>>>> >> Abilities
>>>> >> >>> and find a
>>>> >> >>>>> local camp near
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> you, just click
>>>> on this
>>>> >> link to
>>>> >> >>> their
>>>> >> >>>>> national Web site:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> www.campabilities.org.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> The I C.A.N.
>>>> >> Foundation helps
>>>> >> >>> visually
>>>> >> >>>>> impaired youth in
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Maryland have the
>>>> ability
>>>> >> to
>>>> >> >>> confidently say
>>>> >> >>>>> "I can!" How? Click
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> on this link to
>>>> learn more
>>>> >> and to
>>>> >> >>>>> contribute:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> www.icanfoundation.info.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from
>>>> >> my BrailleNote
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>>>> -----
>>>> >> Original Message -----
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> From: David
>>>> Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> To: National
>>>> Association
>>>> >> of Blind
>>>> >> >>> Students
>>>> >> >>>>> mailing list
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Date sent: Sun,
>>>> 19 Jun
>>>> >> 2011 20:39:01
>>>> >> >>> -0500
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re:
>>>> [nabs-l]
>>>> >> >>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
>>>> >> >>>>> Threw Our Eyes
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> interview,Ride
>>>> into
>>>> >> History, Race
>>>> >> >>> for
>>>> >> >>>>> Independence, Wed.
>>>> June
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Chris:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I don't want to
>>>> friend
>>>> >> anyone -- but
>>>> >> >>> I think
>>>> >> >>>>> this is a terrible
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> idea!
>>>> Remember the
>>>> >> ACB split off
>>>> >> >>> from
>>>> >> >>>>> the NFB because they
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> thought
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> that we were all
>>>> wrong,
>>>> >> did our
>>>> >> >>> business in
>>>> >> >>>>> the wrong way etc. I
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> am
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> not going to say
>>>> that we
>>>> >> can't learn
>>>> >> >>> anything
>>>> >> >>>>> from the ACB, but
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> not a
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> history
>>>> lesson. I
>>>> >> was at a ACb
>>>> >> >>> National
>>>> >> >>>>> Convention a few years
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> ago
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> -- and heard the
>>>> NFB
>>>> >> attacked openly
>>>> >> >>> and
>>>> >> >>>>> indirectly. These
>>>> folks
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> are
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> not our
>>>> friends. We
>>>> >> can work
>>>> >> >>> jointly at
>>>> >> >>>>> times, and should, and I
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> don't think we
>>>> should be
>>>> >> against
>>>> >> >>> them, for
>>>> >> >>>>> the sake of it, as
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> some of
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> my old-timer
>>>> friends are
>>>> >> -- but a
>>>> >> >>> joint
>>>> >> >>>>> conference call on
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> consideration of
>>>> a change
>>>> >> to a NFB
>>>> >> >>> division
>>>> >> >>>>> bylaw is going to
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> far!
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Dave
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> At 12:53 PM
>>>> 6/19/2011, you
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I have a friend
>>>> in the
>>>> >> Council that
>>>> >> >>> I will
>>>> >> >>>>> see Monday night, so I
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> plan to give this
>>>> idea to
>>>> >> him and
>>>> >> >>> ask if he
>>>> >> >>>>> knows someone in the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Council that
>>>> would be
>>>> >> knowledgeable
>>>> >> >>> enough
>>>> >> >>>>> and willing to attend
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> this call on
>>>> behalf of the
>>>> >> Council
>>>> >> >>> as an
>>>> >> >>>>> expert on their history.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Maybe it would be
>>>> better
>>>> >> if someone
>>>> >> >>> like me
>>>> >> >>>>> moderated. Keep in
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> mind
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> that I did
>>>> volunteer, but
>>>> >> I'm not
>>>> >> >>> degrading
>>>> >> >>>>> anyone else, I'm just
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> using myself as
>>>> an example
>>>> >> here.
>>>> >> >>> I'm a
>>>> >> >>>>> member of the Federation,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> but I'm not a
>>>> hard-line
>>>> >> "NFB is
>>>> >> >>> good, ACB
>>>> >> >>>>> bad" person, so I
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> show any bias to
>>>> NFB or
>>>> >> ACB. I
>>>> >> >>> also am
>>>> >> >>>>> not currently a
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> contributing
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> (due-paying)
>>>> member of
>>>> >> NABS, so I'm
>>>> >> >>> not a
>>>> >> >>>>> leader in it of
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> course.
>>>> That way, we
>>>> >> wouldn't have
>>>> >> >>> any
>>>> >> >>>>> bias.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I think it would
>>>> be easy
>>>> >> to have it
>>>> >> >>> jointly
>>>> >> >>>>> attended even if it's
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> an
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> official NABS
>>>> call.
>>>> >> If we have a
>>>> >> >>>>> representative of ACB on the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> call,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> we could probably
>>>> easily
>>>> >> get other
>>>> >> >>> members of
>>>> >> >>>>> ACB on the call to
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> kind of back up
>>>> or add to
>>>> >> that
>>>> >> >>> guest
>>>> >> >>>>> speaker's information.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Chris
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> "A loss of sight,
>>>> never a
>>>> >> loss of
>>>> >> >>> vision!"
>>>> >> >>>>> (Camp Abilities motto)
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> To learn more
>>>> about Camp
>>>> >> Abilities
>>>> >> >>> and find a
>>>> >> >>>>> local camp near
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> you,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> just click on
>>>> this link to
>>>> >> their
>>>> >> >>> national Web
>>>> >> >>>>> site:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> www.campabilities.org.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> The I C.A.N.
>>>> >> Foundation helps
>>>> >> >>> visually
>>>> >> >>>>> impaired youth in
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Maryland
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> have the ability
>>>> to
>>>> >> confidently say
>>>> >> >>> "I can!"
>>>> >> >>>>> How? Click on this
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> link
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> to learn more and
>>>> to
>>>> >> contribute:
>>>> >> >>>>> www.icanfoundation.info.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Sent from my
>>>> BrailleNote
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> ----- Original
>>>> Message
>>>> >> -----
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> From: Kirt
>>>> Manwaring
>>>> >> <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> To: National
>>>> Association
>>>> >> of Blind
>>>> >> >>> Students
>>>> >> >>>>> mailing list
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Date sent: Sun,
>>>> 19 Jun
>>>> >> 2011 00:45:08
>>>> >> >>> -0600
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re:
>>>> [nabs-l]
>>>> >> >>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
>>>> >> >>>>> Threw Our Eyes
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> interview,Ride
>>>> into
>>>> >> History, Race
>>>> >> >>> for
>>>> >> >>>>> Independence, Wed.
>>>> June
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Carley,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> The
>>>> two
>>>> >> organizations don't
>>>> >> >>>>> really claim to be "friends"
>>>> as
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> such-it
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> seems like now
>>>> they just
>>>> >> mostly
>>>> >> >>> ignore each
>>>> >> >>>>> other, work jointly
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> when
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> their agendas
>>>> converge and
>>>> >> play
>>>> >> >>> politics when
>>>> >> >>>>> they don't. Maybe
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> they
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> aren't enemies,
>>>> but the
>>>> >> official
>>>> >> >>>>> organizations don't really
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> advertise
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> themselves as
>>>> friends.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> While it
>>>> >> would be great to
>>>> >> >>>>> have people from both
>>>> organizations
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> participate in a
>>>> joint
>>>> >> call, I don't
>>>> >> >>> see it
>>>> >> >>>>> happening. Here's
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> hoping
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> though, I
>>>> guess It's
>>>> >> certainly a
>>>> >> >>> nice
>>>> >> >>>>> thought-although, if the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> call
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> were to have
>>>> presentations
>>>> >> from
>>>> >> >>> members of
>>>> >> >>>>> both organizations, it
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> probably should
>>>> be jointly
>>>> >> moderated
>>>> >> >>> and
>>>> >> >>>>> attended. The NFB (or
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> probably even
>>>> NABS) would,
>>>> >> I'm
>>>> >> >>> betting, not
>>>> >> >>>>> be inclined to go
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> there.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> So maybe we'll
>>>> have better
>>>> >> luck
>>>> >> >>> going through
>>>> >> >>>>> unnoficial channels
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> and
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> setting this up
>>>> on our
>>>> >> own? No
>>>> >> >>> need to
>>>> >> >>>>> make it an official event
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> for
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> either the
>>>> Federation or
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> >>> Council-I think
>>>> >> >>>>> it's safe to say
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> that
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> idea was doomed
>>>> to fail
>>>> >> before it
>>>> >> >>> was brought
>>>> >> >>>>> up.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On 6/18/11, Chris
>>>> Nusbaum
>>>> >> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> >> >>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> And, as I said
>>>> before, I
>>>> >> would be
>>>> >> >>> very
>>>> >> >>>>> willing to moderate this
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> call.
>>>> Please keep me
>>>> >> posted!
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> "A loss of sight,
>>>> never a
>>>> >> loss of
>>>> >> >>> vision!"
>>>> >> >>>>> (Camp Abilities motto)
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> To learn more
>>>> about Camp
>>>> >> Abilities
>>>> >> >>> and find a
>>>> >> >>>>> local camp near
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> you, just click
>>>> on this
>>>> >> link to
>>>> >> >>> their
>>>> >> >>>>> national Web site:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> www.campabilities.org.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> The I C.A.N.
>>>> >> Foundation helps
>>>> >> >>> visually
>>>> >> >>>>> impaired youth in
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Maryland have the
>>>> ability
>>>> >> to
>>>> >> >>> confidently say
>>>> >> >>>>> "I can!" How? Click
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> on this link to
>>>> learn more
>>>> >> and to
>>>> >> >>>>> contribute:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> www.icanfoundation.info.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Sent
>>>> from my
>>>> >> BrailleNote
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> >> Original Message
>>>> >> >>>>> -----
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> From: Ignasi
>>>> Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> To: National
>>>> Association
>>>> >> of Blind
>>>> >> >>> Students
>>>> >> >>>>> mailing list
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Date sent: Sat,
>>>> 18 Jun
>>>> >> 2011 18:51:04
>>>> >> >>> -0400
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re:
>>>> [nabs-l]
>>>> >> >>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
>>>> >> >>>>> Threw Our Eyes
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> interview,Ride
>>>> into
>>>> >> History, Race
>>>> >> >>> for
>>>> >> >>>>> Independence, Wed.
>>>> June
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> This call would
>>>> be very
>>>> >> interesting
>>>> >> >>>>> indeed. If
>>>> representatives
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> from both
>>>> organizations
>>>> >> are willing
>>>> >> >>> to
>>>> >> >>>>> participate, it can really
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> be productive in
>>>> many
>>>> >> ways.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011,
>>>> at 1:46
>>>> >> PM, Carly
>>>> >> >>> Mihalakis
>>>> >> >>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Good
>>>> morning,
>>>> >> list,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> A
>>>> few days
>>>> >> ago, someone on
>>>> >> >>>>> the NABS list suggested
>>>> a
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> conference
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> call bringing
>>>> clarity to a
>>>> >> younger
>>>> >> >>>>> generation. What,
>>>> exactly, is
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> the history of
>>>> the
>>>> >> ideological
>>>> >> >>> parting of
>>>> >> >>>>> ways, between the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Federation and
>>>> the
>>>> >> Council? Does
>>>> >> >>> anybody know
>>>> >> >>>>> today, the history
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> of this division
>>>> or is it
>>>> >> a product
>>>> >> >>> of sheer
>>>> >> >>>>> habit as is the case
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> with Republicans
>>>> and
>>>> >> Democrats? If
>>>> >> >>> such a
>>>> >> >>>>> meeting of both
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> entities were to
>>>> take
>>>> >> place, There
>>>> >> >>> ought to
>>>> >> >>>>> be representation of
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> both
>>>> organizations
>>>> >> so that a
>>>> >> >>> wholistic
>>>> >> >>>>> portrait of this issue
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> can be
>>>> exercised.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> and
>>>> its split
>>>> >> from the
>>>> >> >>>>> ACB. This seems like a
>>>> >> productive and
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> enlightening
>>>> discussion
>>>> >> but I
>>>> >> >>> wonder, if the
>>>> >> >>>>> Federation and the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> council claim to
>>>> be
>>>> >> friends, should
>>>> >> >>> there not
>>>> >> >>>>> be representation
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> from
>>>> >> both sides, identifying
>>>> >> >>>>> their position and
>>>> whereabouts
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> they stand, in
>>>> this? At
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> ----
>>>> Original
>>>> >> Message
>>>> >> >>>>> ------
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> From: "Joe
>>>> >> Ruffalo" <nfbnj at yahoo.com>
>>>> >> >>>>> (by way of David
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> Subject:
>>>> >> >>>>> [Nfbnet-members-list] Thru
>>>> Our Eyes
>>>> >> interview,
>>>> >> >>> Ride
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> into History,Race
>>>> for
>>>> >> >>> Independence,
>>>> >> >>>>> Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm
>>>> EDT
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Date
>>>> sent:
>>>> >> Fri, 17 Jun 2011
>>>> >> >>>>> 19:26:45 -0500
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Save
>>>> The
>>>> >> Date:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On
>>>> Wednesday,
>>>> >> June 22,at
>>>> >> >>>>> 8:00 pm eastern, Thru Our
>>>> Eyes host,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Joe
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> Ruffalo will
>>>> >> interview
>>>> >> >>>>> Parnell Diggs, chair of the
>>>> >> Imagination
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Fund,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Race
>>>> for
>>>> >> Independence.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> The
>>>> interview
>>>> >> will highlight
>>>> >> >>>>> current and past grants
>>>> awarded to
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> state
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> affiliates
>>>> >> and chapters.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> In
>>>> addition,
>>>> >> featured will
>>>> >> >>>>> be Imaginators who will share
>>>> the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> methods
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> to
>>>> make the
>>>> >> ask to make a
>>>> >> >>>>> difference in changing what
>>>> it means
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> to be blind.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> Special
>>>> >> highlight of the
>>>> >> >>>>> interview will be the
>>>> announcement of
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> the 30
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> winners who
>>>> >> will have the
>>>> >> >>>>> opportunity to be driven by a
>>>> blind
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> driver
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> while
>>>> >> attending
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> the
>>>> national
>>>> >> convention in
>>>> >> >>>>> Orlando.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> Witness the
>>>> >> opportunity to
>>>> >> >>>>> ride into history!
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> To
>>>> watch and
>>>> >> listen to the
>>>> >> >>>>> interview, please visit the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> following:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> <http://www.thruoureyes.org>www.thruoureyes.org
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> For
>>>> JAWS
>>>> >> users and mobile
>>>> >> >>>>> phone users, please visit
>>>> the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> following:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> m.thruoureyes.org
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> Other options
>>>> >> to watch or
>>>> >> >>>>> listen can be found on the
>>>> sites
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> listed above.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> To
>>>> call in
>>>> >> with comments or
>>>> >> >>>>> questions, please dial the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> following:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> 1
>>>> 888 572
>>>> >> 0141
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Join
>>>> us to
>>>> >> Make a
>>>> >> >>>>> Difference!
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change
>>>> your list
>>>> >> options or
>>>> >> >>> get your
>>>> >> >>>>> account info for
>>>> >> >>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> >> >>>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma
> il.com
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> il.com
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> >
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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