[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
Chris Nusbaum
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Thu Jun 23 16:26:36 UTC 2011
Yeah, but we have an APS in my town at an intersection that is so
busy that you can hardly hear it. Besides, the APS itself isn't
that loud anyway. My friend in the ACB said that the APS I'm
referring to is "stupid" then realizing that his ACB chapter was
a big part of putting it in. Whoops! :)
Chris
"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
www.campabilities.org.
The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
on this link to learn more and to contribute:
www.icanfoundation.info.
Sent from my BrailleNote
----- Original Message -----
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:09:00 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June
22, 8:00 pm EDT
Jessica,
I hear you. That's why I don't think the NFB is categorically
opposed to audible signals.
On 6/22/11, Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
There are certain types of intersections where no matter how
long you stand
there and listen to traffic you will never hear a good cycle so
in those
cases I actually support aps. Just keep that in mind when
someone talks
about every intersection being crossable by listening to
traffic.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 22, 2011, at 9:57 AM, Kirt Manwaring
<kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
wrote:
Anmol,
It's a nice thought. Maybe it'll be possible, some day. Never
say
never, ri9ght?
But here's the thing. The two organizations have evolved two
separate philosophies and mindsets. I'm doing something really
bad
and generalizing. If anyone who knows more than I do wants to
correct
me here, feel free.
The stance the ACB seems to take more often than not is to make
the
environment more accessible for us. This is evidenced by their
support for audible street signals (which make a lot of sense to
me,
I'm not really convinced one way or the other on that one yet),
tactile currency, descriptive movies, the provisions in the ADA
to
make ATMs accessible, the 21st century communications act, their
support for Randolph-Shepherd, universal design in technology,
etc.
They also use lots of their resources to fight descrimination,
at
least it seems that way to me.
The NFB, on the other hand, seems to more often than not
advocate us
adapting to the environment. This is evidenced by the strict
standards of training centers, pushing braille, opposition to
the
tactile currency idea, advocacy of relying on traffic rather
than
audible signals (which makes a lot of sense to me), our
philosophy
that with the right training and opportunity we can compete on
an
equal footing, the idea of the blind driver challenge, etc. Of
course
the NFB sometimes pushes making changes in the environment
(technology
bill of rights, Help America Vote Act, and the ADA which we also
supported), and the ACB does advocate for quality independence
training/O&M. But, those are the rough philosophies of the two
organizations, if we're going by their records. Is the ACB
wrong?
No, I don't think so, but the NFB is more of a fit with my
vision of
blindness. I just think thee two separate methodoligies
willkeep us
from ever uniting as one group...and that's ok. We all have the
right, even the obligation to advocate for ourselves and those
we
represent. The ACB does it their way, we do it ours. Sometimes
there
is overlap, lots of times our philosophies take us in different
directions and put us on opposite sides of important issues.
When our
aims are the same (or similar), we need to work together and
present a
united front. When we are at odds (which we often are, the two
organizations really are very different), we both have the right
to
push our separate agendas and attempt to get our policies
implimented.
Sometimes they win, sometimes we win, that's politics. We don't
have
to be bitter about it and, on the personal level, we can still
be good
friends even when our politics are at odds.
Just my thoughts,
Kirt
On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
Kirt,
You bring some vary valid points, and yes we have beaten the
democrats/republicans analogy to death but it keeps coming up
as a
comparison, so I will just say one thing about this. I may have
already
said
this before on the list, but please furgive me if I have. The
blind
community is a to small of a community to be divided on partizen
lines
like
democrats and republicans, and our challenges are to great to be
divided
like democrats and republicans. Sure there will be differences
between
members of the ACB and members of the NFB on how business should
be
conducted, but honestly there differences between members of
each
organization on how their organization should do business.
True there were disagreement on how business should and
leadership issues
causing the split between the NFB and ACB, I consider the
leadership
issues
to be pitty differences. Often when one candidate loses, they
and their
supporters go and form their on organization or chapter. This
happened at
my
local NFB chapter and as a result we have two NFB chapters in a
small
town.
Now some may consider this to be a good thing, but think about
how much
more
we can achieve if we were one NFB chapter in Fayetteville in
recruiting,
fund raising and my volunteers for events. In addition, these
types of
childish arguements causes many blind people who otherwise may
be
involved
in a blind organization to be a "fense sitters". Now using this
analogy
to
NFB ACB, ACB does not have near the funds that NFB has, but they
are not
poor eather. Their attendence is not as large at the
conventions, but it
is
not small eather. Think if both of these organizations were
together how
much more money we would have to do policy that each
organization does or
the advocacy work that each organization does, and think about
how much
larger the convention would be. We would pack two hotels full
or near
full.
In addition, think about how much venders would be giving out in
prizes
because now insteading having to spend money to send their
workers to two
convention, they will only have to send their workers to one
convention.
In
addition, most venders give out big prizes at each convention
and if
there
was only one convention, they can give two prizes.
However, you are right in that realistically the two
organizations will
not
merge any time soon.
best wishes,
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
Perhaps
there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
like a
breeze
among flowers.
Hellen Keller
--- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
wrote:
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
interview,
Ride
into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 2:51 PM
Anmol,
I don't really see a merger happening any time soon,
nor would I
want it to. We've all beaten the democrat/republican
analogy to
death...but imagine Barack Obama and Mitt Romney in the
same political
party. It just wouldn't work. There are huge
differences. It
doesn't make the NFB better for everyone, but it makes the
NFB better
for me. I have lots of respect for my friends in the
ACB who stand up
and fight for their agenda. Lots of the times, it's
the same as mine.
When it's not, we can talk without being jackasses to each
other and,
in a lot of cases, the disagreement actually strengthens
our
friendship.
I say diversity is good, competition is good, we
need a free market
of ideas. I respect ACB and the sincere people there
trying to make
the lives of blind people better. I happen to find
the Federation
philosophy and method more meaningful for me. I want
to understand
the split. From the little bit of studying I've done,
I don't really
think it was petty personal differences but rather
differing
philosophies about methodology and leadership that drove
the two
groups to separate. We can be different without being
petty. We can
disagree without being bigots. When our two
organizations come down
on opposite sides of important issues, as we often do, we
need not be
arrogant or self-rightious because we think we're
right. The fact is,
we disagree. And I think the disagreements are too
central to our
respective organizations for us to ever become one.
But that doesn't
mean we can't be friends, especially on a personal level.
Best,
Kirt
On 6/21/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
wrote:
Kirt,
You are bringing up some vary good points...
Understanding the history of
the NFB and ACB is an import part in the history in
the blind movement and
an important part in the history of two organizations.
Frankly in it is just
my oppinion both organizations bring value and have
and continue to make a
difference for blind people across America on a daily
bases. It is a shame
that this split happened and just maybe the next
generation of blind
individuals our generation or those who are younger
then can bring the two
organizations together once again. Now this is just my
translation and my
oppinion, but it seems to me that the NFB ACB
split happened over pitty
differences and two individuals with different ideas
fighting for power. It
seems to me that the hate the two organizations have
towards each other is
not as strong amongest this generation. Infact many
members of NABS of ACB
and NABS of NFB are friends in life and attack on the
other organization is
usually not allow on each organization's mailing
list.
Dave, you are right that ACB does not have the same
amount of people
attending its' convention, but their attendence is not
small eather. I would
guess 1500 attend the ACB convention and all the major
venders who attend
the NFB convention attend the ACB convention. There
are also quite a few
young people who attend the ACB convention.
Yes ACB does its' business different then NFB, but
thats why they are a
different organization. However, this does not make
them any worse or better
then the NFB.
Just my thoughts and it would be great if we keep the
attacks on each
organization to as less as possible.
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
make me sad. Perhaps
there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
vague, like a breeze
among flowers.
Hellen Keller
--- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
wrote:
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
Our Eyes interview, Ride
into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22,
8:00 pm EDT
To: "National Association of Blind Students
mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 12:25 PM
Dave,
How long ago was this? Things could've
changed
since you last went
if it's been a while, maybe? And, with respect,
this
is a big deal to
a lot of us. I know for me it's a lot more than
a
"small
consideration", I like to know the past as much as
I can
because it
shaped the here and now. I can read the books
put out
by each
organization-they probably both have lots of the
truth
intermingled
with their respective agendas. But nothing
beats
talking to people
who have studied the issues or, preferably, people
who were
actually
there.
All the best,
Kirt
On 6/21/11, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
wrote:
The two biggest things I noticed at an ACB
national
convention were
that the crowd was considerably smaller than
that at a
NFB convention
-- less exhibits etc. too. The second
things was
that there were few
young persons -- some but noticeably not
very
many. One of the major
things that the ACB has pushed in the past is
that it
is different
from the NFB, it does things differently
etc.
This doesn't really
matter to younger people though, so they have
little
reason to join, so
don't.
You guys can spend lots of time on the
history, and
differences if
you want -- but what is the point. It
happened,
it is over with and
done. Yes we can and should learn from our
history, but it is just
one small consideration.
Dave
At 11:32 AM 6/20/2011, you wrote:
Dave,
I do see your point. Those
alive at the time are not, and will
probabluy never be friends. Heck,
getting
them to actually talk in
peace would be the achievement of the
century! if such a call were
to hypothetically happen, how could we
keep it from
opening old wounds
and stoking old fires?
Best,
Kirt
On 6/20/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
wrote:
Dave,
Our joint conference call isn't
associated
whatsoever with the
proposition of a change in the NFB
bylaw. If I'm setting this
up, which it appears I am, I didn't
even have
the intention of
mentioning that proposition on the
call. The call's purpose is
to learn the history of the NFB/ACB,
with a
little emphasis on
the "civil war" period, from both
sides so we
are informed. I
also want this call to start a
discussion on
the history of our
movement and what we can learn from
it, not
only as
Federationists, but as blind
students.
Jorge and I have found
some ways that we can hold the call
without
making it a NABS
membership call, if it is entirely
necessary. And as to your
comments about them not being our
friends,
then using your
argument, the Republicans should not
hear the
Democrats point of
view in meetings of Congress, but
the two
parties should be
separated from each other for fear
of their
own side being
attacked. We can keep our same
opinions, and probably many
Federationists and Council members
who attend
this call will.
This is just a way that we can be
more
informed when forming
these opinions.
Chris
"A loss of sight, never a loss of
vision!"
(Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities
and find a
local camp near
you, just click on this link to
their
national Web site:
www.campabilities.org.
The I C.A.N. Foundation helps
visually
impaired youth in
Maryland have the ability to
confidently say
"I can!" How? Click
on this link to learn more and to
contribute:
www.icanfoundation.info.
Sent from my BrailleNote
----- Original Message -----
From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
To: National Association of Blind
Students
mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:39:01
-0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
[Nfbnet-members-list]
Threw Our Eyes
interview,Ride into History, Race
for
Independence, Wed. June
22, 8:00 pm EDT
Chris:
I don't want to friend anyone -- but
I think
this is a terrible
idea! Remember the ACB split off
from
the NFB because they
thought
that we were all wrong, did our
business in
the wrong way etc. I
am
not going to say that we can't learn
anything
from the ACB, but
not a
history lesson. I was at a ACb
National
Convention a few years
ago
-- and heard the NFB attacked openly
and
indirectly. These folks
are
not our friends. We can work
jointly at
times, and should, and I
don't think we should be against
them, for
the sake of it, as
some of
my old-timer friends are -- but a
joint
conference call on
consideration of a change to a NFB
division
bylaw is going to
far!
Dave
At 12:53 PM 6/19/2011, you wrote:
Kirt,
I have a friend in the Council that
I will
see Monday night, so I
plan to give this idea to him and
ask if he
knows someone in the
Council that would be knowledgeable
enough
and willing to attend
this call on behalf of the Council
as an
expert on their history.
Maybe it would be better if someone
like me
moderated. Keep in
mind
that I did volunteer, but I'm not
degrading
anyone else, I'm just
using myself as an example here.
I'm a
member of the Federation,
but I'm not a hard-line "NFB is
good, ACB
bad" person, so I
wouldn't
show any bias to NFB or ACB. I
also am
not currently a
contributing
(due-paying) member of NABS, so I'm
not a
leader in it of
course. That way, we wouldn't have
any
bias.
I think it would be easy to have it
jointly
attended even if it's
an
official NABS call. If we have a
representative of ACB on the
call,
we could probably easily get other
members of
ACB on the call to
kind of back up or add to that
guest
speaker's information.
Thoughts?
Chris
"A loss of sight, never a loss of
vision!"
(Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities
and find a
local camp near
you,
just click on this link to their
national Web
site:
www.campabilities.org.
The I C.A.N. Foundation helps
visually
impaired youth in
Maryland
have the ability to confidently say
"I can!"
How? Click on this
link
to learn more and to contribute:
www.icanfoundation.info.
Sent from my BrailleNote
----- Original Message -----
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind
Students
mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 00:45:08
-0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
[Nfbnet-members-list]
Threw Our Eyes
interview,Ride into History, Race
for
Independence, Wed. June
22, 8:00 pm EDT
Carley,
The two organizations don't
really claim to be "friends" as
such-it
seems like now they just mostly
ignore each
other, work jointly
when
their agendas converge and play
politics when
they don't. Maybe
they
aren't enemies, but the official
organizations don't really
advertise
themselves as friends.
While it would be great to
have people from both organizations
participate in a joint call, I don't
see it
happening. Here's
hoping
though, I guess It's certainly a
nice
thought-although, if the
call
were to have presentations from
members of
both organizations, it
probably should be jointly moderated
and
attended. The NFB (or
probably even NABS) would, I'm
betting, not
be inclined to go
there.
So maybe we'll have better luck
going through
unnoficial channels
and
setting this up on our own? No
need to
make it an official event
for
either the Federation or the
Council-I think
it's safe to say
that
idea was doomed to fail before it
was brought
up.
Best,
Kirt
On 6/18/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
wrote:
And, as I said before, I would be
very
willing to moderate this
call. Please keep me posted!
Chris
"A loss of sight, never a loss of
vision!"
(Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities
and find a
local camp near
you, just click on this link to
their
national Web site:
www.campabilities.org.
The I C.A.N. Foundation helps
visually
impaired youth in
Maryland have the ability to
confidently say
"I can!" How? Click
on this link to learn more and to
contribute:
www.icanfoundation.info.
Sent from my BrailleNote
----- Original Message
-----
From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind
Students
mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 18:51:04
-0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
[Nfbnet-members-list]
Threw Our Eyes
interview,Ride into History, Race
for
Independence, Wed. June
22, 8:00 pm EDT
This call would be very interesting
indeed. If representatives
from both organizations are willing
to
participate, it can really
be productive in many ways.
On Jun 18, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Carly
Mihalakis
wrote:
Good morning, list,
A few days ago, someone on
the NABS list suggested a
conference
call bringing clarity to a younger
generation. What, exactly, is
the history of the ideological
parting of
ways, between the
Federation and the Council? Does
anybody know
today, the history
of this division or is it a product
of sheer
habit as is the case
with Republicans and Democrats? If
such a
meeting of both
entities were to take place, There
ought to
be representation of
both organizations so that a
wholistic
portrait of this issue
can be exercised.
and its split from the
ACB. This seems like a productive and
enlightening discussion but I
wonder, if the
Federation and the
council claim to be friends, should
there not
be representation
from both sides, identifying
their position and whereabouts
they stand, in this? At
---- Original Message
------
From: "Joe Ruffalo" <nfbnj at yahoo.com
(by way of David
Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)
Subject:
[Nfbnet-members-list] Thru Our Eyes interview,
Ride
into History,Race for
Independence,
Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
Date sent: Fri, 17 Jun 2011
19:26:45 -0500
Save The Date:
On Wednesday, June 22,at
8:00 pm eastern, Thru Our Eyes host,
Joe
Ruffalo will interview
Parnell Diggs, chair of the Imagination
Fund,
Race for Independence.
The interview will highlight
current and past grants awarded to
state
affiliates and chapters.
In addition, featured will
be Imaginators who will share the
methods
to make the ask to make a
difference in changing what it means
to be blind.
Special highlight of the
interview will be the announcement of
the 30
winners who will have the
opportunity to be driven by a blind
driver
while attending
the national convention in
Orlando.
Witness the opportunity to
ride into history!
To watch and listen to the
interview, please visit the
following:
<http://www.thruoureyes.org>www.thruoureyes.org
For JAWS users and mobile
phone users, please visit the
following:
m.thruoureyes.org
Other options to watch or
listen can be found on the sites
listed above.
To call in with comments or
questions, please dial the
following:
1 888 572 0141
Join us to Make a
Difference!
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