[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
Kirt Manwaring
kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Sun Jun 26 16:05:38 UTC 2011
Chris,
One more thing. I'm about to make a political statement so get
ready- I wouldn't, except this is very much a political issue. Here
goes. The government shouldn't be in the business of providing
luxuries. I suspect most level-headed Americans, both Liberal and
Conservative, agree with me there, so I'm not trying to start a
political debate. All I'm saying is, when we demand and get something
that we don't really need, it's a slippery slope. What will we demand
next? Where do we draw the line between something that would be nice
and something we can't do without? I think the disagreement here is
different blind people draw that line in different places-some say we
can't do without the accessible currency, others say it's not a
necessity. How do you personally decide what is something you think
the blind community needs versus something that would be useful but
not critical?
Best,
Kirt
On 6/26/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris,
> I know it's going to happen. I wish it wasn't, but it will and I'm
> optomistic it will be something beneficial. I'm just concerned about
> the mentality this fosters-lots of us already think we're entitled to
> get everything in the whole dang world without working for it, what's
> next? Don't get me wrong, we need things accessible, money, as I
> think has been demonstrated over and over again, is already accessible
> to us if we know how to handle it. We don't even need technology like
> an iBill or LookTell app, and 99 times out of 100, I might even say
> 999 times out of 1000, we'll be fine. Sighted people are playing by
> pretty much the same odds-what with fraud and ponzie schemes and so
> forth. Don't get me wrong, I'll take advantage of the usability of
> the new money as much as anyone else. But I'm getting a little
> frustrated with blind people demanding things we don't really need and
> acting like it's an unalienable right to get whatever we want.
> Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 6/26/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Kirt,
>>
>> I say "take it when you can get it!" We're debating something
>> that's going to happen anyway, which is fine, but the accessible
>> currency is still going to be made no matter what we say. ACB
>> won the case. Even if it is a luxury, let's take that luxury
>> when we can get it!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
>> www.campabilities.org.
>>
>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
>> on this link to learn more and to contribute:
>> www.icanfoundation.info or like us on Facebook at I C.A.N.
>> Foundation.
>>
>> Join me on Facebook: Search for Christopher Nusbaum!
>>
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:52:02 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June
>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>
>> Car,
>> That was two words. ;) I know I'm a jerk.
>> I still think the cost is too high. If the government is going
>> to
>> spend millions of dollars that don't need to be spent (nothing
>> new
>> there), I can honestly think of more ways they could do it. How
>> a
>> bout just cut every blind person in America a check for a
>> thousand
>> dollars? That would be cheaper than replacing all the cash out
>> there
>> with newer bills of different size, or with tactile marks, or
>> whatever. And, honestly, I'd probably get more use out of it.
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/24/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi, Arielle,
>>
>> In a word it is absolutely, worth it!
>> Yet, if people in power are reluctant to change existiing
>> infrastructure then divices needed to discern, individual
>> currency,
>> ought to be FREE in the name of total equality.
>> for today,
>> Car
>> :25 PM 6/24/2011, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I think there is a difference between having currency designed a
>> certain way from the get-go, and having to change what has
>> already
>> been designed. So comparing India which has had identifiable
>> currency
>> since it became independent with the situation in the U.S. which
>> would
>> have to redesign the money from scratch is not really
>> appropriate. I
>> agree that having bills be identifiable by touch is useful for
>> many
>> reasons, both for the blind and the sighted. But is it worth the
>> cost
>> of having to redesign what has already been created?
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Kirt,
>> I am not sure, but I would guess that the current system of
>> Indian
>> currency
>> has been in place since independence in 1947 before any vending
>> machines
>> or
>> ATM were invented. True it is not fair for millions of sighted
>> individuals
>> to have to pay and adjust to accessible currency: redesigning
>> ATM and
>> vending machines, replacing the cash they already have which
>> individuals
>> have to do every 7 years I believe or whenever a new note comes
>> out; but
>> if
>> we allow the fairness arguement for the sighted keep us from
>> advancing
>> our
>> goals to create opportunities and bring greater independence for
>> the
>> blind
>> we would never achieve anything. If we used the fairness
>> arguement as
>> you
>> described, it is not fair for millions of businesses to be
>> mandated to build
>> ramps or have elevaters so that hand full of persons
>> in wheelchair can have
>> equal access, but do we live and do we want to live in a society
>> where
>> only
>> majority have access and opportunity to life because making
>> adjustments or baring cost associated to bringing the necessary
>> changes
>> to
>> make certain aspects of life accessible is unfair to the
>> majority, or do we
>> want a society where people are willing to adjust and bare cost
>> so that
>> their fellow citizens who happen to be blind or disabled can
>> have equal
>> opportunities and rights as them? If we take the fairness
>> arguement,
>> then
>> the Americans with Disabilities ACT (ADA) is unconstitutional
>> and
>> it was the
>> main reason why many businesses were opposed to it. Redesigning
>> the currency
>> may cause inconvenience at first, but like Europe it will soon
>> be a part
>> of
>> life and an adjustment that many do not have any problems. Many
>> sighted
>> people have asked me why is the currency not accessible? Many
>> sighted people
>> who I talk to about this do not seem to mind baring the cost and
>> the
>> little
>> inconvenience associated with doing this in order to bring
>> greater
>> opportunity and equality to the million or so blind individuals.
>>
>> best
>> Anmol
>>
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>> Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>> like a
>> breeze
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> interview,
>> Ride
>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 8:48 PM
>> Anmol,
>> I didn't say India doesn't have a lot of
>> infrastructure. I just
>> think the US, all told, has more that would need to be
>> replaced. I'd
>> be interested to know if India's currency has been of
>> different sizes
>> ever since India became in independent country in 1948.
>> Just think of it this way. How many times do
>> you see an ATM in a
>> convenience store, bank, hotel, hospital, airport or
>> supermarket? If
>> we made our currency different sizes, or added tactile
>> marks, all
>> those hundreds of thousands of ATMS would have to be
>> replaced. I'm
>> sure Europe had that problem adopting the euro, but it was
>> worth the
>> cost for most people involved. It's not fair to the
>> however many
>> million sighted Americans out there to make them replace
>> all their
>> ATMS, vending machines, cash they already have, etc.
>> But, like I
>> said, since it's going to happen anyway, I hope they pull
>> off
>> something that will work.
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
>> wrote:
>> Kirt,
>> Actually there is a large infrastructure in India. The
>> thing is that
>> identifiable currency has just become a part of life
>> and I don't think it
>> was ever intended to be accessable for the blind when
>> it was designed. So
>> why was the Indian currency designed in different
>> sizes? I am not sure, but
>> the sighted and blind have benefited from it alike and
>> cost to do this can
>> not be that high since there are not many resources
>> and frankly it is hard
>> to get Indian politicians to do anything good for
>> people with disabilities
>> is rare. Perfect example of what can be possible in
>> the US.
>> Anmol
>>
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>> make me sad. Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
>> vague, like a breeze
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>> Our Eyes interview, Ride
>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22,
>> 8:00 pm EDT
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 7:14 PM
>> Anmol,
>> I should never say I'm leaving-people always
>> say
>> stuff and I can't
>> stay away. Here's the thing about India. As
>> large as the population
>> is (massive!), there's not near the infrastructure
>> to
>> replace. I hope
>> that will change as India's economy becomes more
>> and more
>> developed
>> and the middle class gets larger but, as it stands
>> now, I
>> think doing
>> this in the US would be a lot harder than in India
>> because
>> of all the
>> machinery that would need to be redone.
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
>> wrote:
>> Kirt,
>> The population of UK may be five times less
>> then US,
>> but the population of
>> my country of India is 1 billion almost
>> three
>> times more then the US and
>> still we have currency wich can be
>> identifiable by the
>> blind. So if India
>> can make the transition without a problem,
>> then it
>> should not be that
>> difficult for the US.
>>
>> Anmol
>>
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they
>> never
>> make me sad. Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at times;
>> but it is
>> vague, like a breeze
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 6/23/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>> [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>> Our Eyes interview, Ride
>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
>> June 22,
>> 8:00 pm EDT
>> To: "National Association of Blind
>> Students
>> mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:49 PM
>> Carley,
>> Cool! I've never been a science
>> guy. I'm
>> going to straite my brain
>> and leave the list for a couple days.
>> Enjoy,
>> everyone.
>>
>> On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi, Kurt,
>>
>> As I understand it, a muscle
>> striates when it
>> is
>> active. If
>> therefore, a law, procedure or
>> cultural norm
>> striates,
>> it flexes its
>> muscle, thus changing states.
>> Have fun, Kurt!
>> Car23/2011, you wrote:
>> Carly,
>> I'm not exactly sure what
>> a
>> striation is. The NFBwas opposed to
>> such a measure, and I think they
>> were
>> right to be
>> against it for
>> reasons I've already mentioned.
>> But,
>> after
>> the federal court judge
>> decided to side with the ACB, the
>> NFB
>> decided,
>> rightly, that it may as
>> well be a part of the process
>> since it was
>> going to
>> happen anyway. I
>> don't really see the harm in
>> this, do
>> you?
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis
>> <carlymih at earthlink.net
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Good morning, Kirt,
>>
>> 'Seems to
>> me though, that one ought to be able to
>> determine
>> shades of their own
>> reality, which
>> is how I
>> understand the Federation
>> wants its members, to
>> conduct
>> themselves, in
>> the world. Yet, beyond
>> the elaborate striations
>> the
>> existing system
>> will need to experience,
>> if such a change were to be
>> made,
>> how come
>> the Federation
>> didn't speak up when it
>> was asked,
>> by
>> the Mint last time that entity
>> produced curency?
>> :
>> Carly,
>> We all make
>> mistakes. No worries.
>> Now, just for the
>> heck
>> of it, I'd like to address a point I
>> think
>> you made earlier. (I'm
>> only
>> guessing, because my gmail wouldn't read
>> the whole message to
>> me) But I
>> think
>> you said something like this.
>> "The federation is kind
>> of
>> hypocritical
>> because they rap ad noseum
>> about independence but
>> are stuck
>> relying
>> on sighted people to help
>> them-depending on
>> another person
>> isn't
>> independence at all!" If I'm
>> off the mark, I'm sorry,
>> but I
>> can see you
>> saying something like that
>> so it's just my guess of
>> what you
>> said
>> from the little bit gmail was
>> able to read me.
>> Here's the thing
>> about
>> that. Independence does not mean do
>> everything by yourself
>> all the
>> time.
>> It simply means you can do what
>> you want to, when you
>> want to do
>> it, in a
>> way that's efficient and
>> works for you. It
>> means,
>> basically,
>> that you aren't subject to
>> another person's vision
>> of your
>> life, you
>> do things the way you wish
>> to do them. It also
>> means you
>> do
>> this without really making anyone
>> else go much out of
>> their way to
>> help
>> you.
>> So think of it
>> this
>> way. Every store already has a sighted
>> worker,
>> most of those will be
>> honest,
>> almost all
>> will be honest with other
>> people watching. If
>> you ask
>> that
>> person "hey, what's this bill you're
>> handing me?" that's in
>> no way
>> compromising
>> your independence. Using
>> technology is better
>> because it
>> takes away
>> the outside chance that
>> someone's trying to pull
>> off some
>> funny
>> business but, without the
>> technology, you're still
>> probably
>> safe
>> most of the time. As we've
>> seen already from other
>> posts,
>> nothing is
>> fool proof.
>> But back to
>> independence
>> and philosophy and stuff. Have you
>> ever
>> used a reader? If you
>> have,
>> you're
>> using another person, who's
>> chosing to do something
>> they
>> don't have to
>> do; either they get money
>> or they don't, but it
>> works
>> because you
>> get the job done and you
>> aren't forcing them to
>> do it for
>> you. They chose to provide their
>> time to read you
>> something-you
>> aren't
>> making them do anything. Have
>> you ever used a sighted
>> guide?
>> I do,
>> all the time. (I'm starting to
>> less and less just to
>> keep my
>> cane skills
>> up but sometimes it's just
>> the most efficient way
>> to get
>> stuff
>> done.) You can get somewhere
>> independently and use a
>> sighted
>> guide, as
>> long as you're getting there
>> on your terms and you
>> could do it
>> without
>> a guide there.
>> See what I'm
>> saying? Independent and interdependent
>> aren't
>> mutually
>> exclusive.
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/23/11, Carly
>> Mihalakis
>> <carlymih at earthlink.net
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 'Morning, Kurt,
>>
>>
>> 'Guess I really blew it for myuy self
>> with all
>> those I'd
>> say
>> off the wall
>> comments,
>> about the
>> Ibill.
>>
>> Now a truth
>> immerges which
>> I failed
>> to state clearly, before.
>>
>> 'was confused with
>> the
>> NoteTeller 2
>> which, experience has shown me is
>> unreliable, at
>> best.
>> Carly even the
>> person
>> showing
>> them
>> couild not
>> make them work.
>> It's
>> interesting
>> however
>> that folks on this List have found good
>> luck
>> with
>> them.
>>
>> Carwrote:
>> That
>> is your
>> experience
>> -- mine is that the iBill works quite
>> well
>> -- and
>> I think
>> others
>> have found this to be true too.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At
>> 05:08 PM
>> 6/22/2011,
>> you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> Hamberto and all
>> interested folks,
>>
>>
>> Truth be
>> known, my
>> common law husband and I had the I bill,
>>
>> courtesy of
>> rehab
>> but, after repeated attempts to make the
>> thing
>>
>> identify
>> paper
>> currency, we ascertained it a genuine
>> piece of
>>
>> shit
>>
>> and is not
>> worth
>> anything, so I submit that the
>> manufacturers
>>
>> must
>> be
>> well
>> aware of
>> their having themselves a niche market,
>> in blind
>>
>> people and
>> the deep
>> pocketed agencies who tend to support
>> them,
>>
>> so
>>
>> are
>> totally
>> exploiting it in the manner of any
>> Capitalist
>> aware
>>
>> of
>>
>> the
>> exisstance of a
>> small and needy marketplace.
>>
>> So, in
>> essence,
>> don't waste your's or rehab's time with
>> the I
>>
>> bill! 02:11
>> PM
>> 6/22/2011, you wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> but what
>> happens if I have a bill in my hand and I
>> want
>>
>> to
>>
>> know
>>
>> what
>>
>> it is,
>> but there
>> is not a single sighted soul to tell me
>> what it
>>
>> is? I
>>
>> know
>>
>> is a
>> free
>> alternative but, is it truly worth it?
>> And, what
>> if
>>
>> that
>>
>>
>> sighted
>>
>> person
>> lies
>> about the amount of money that is on the
>> bill?
>>
>> I would
>> probably
>> support ideas like the KNFB reader and
>> the
>>
>> iBill
>>
>>
>> identifier
>>
>> if they
>> were
>> even cheaper. If they were so, I would
>> buy one or
>>
>> the
>>
>>
>> other,
>>
>> but so
>> far, I
>> can not afford either one.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> --
>> Arielle Silverman
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