[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
Carly Mihalakis
carlymih at earthlink.net
Sun Jun 26 16:58:54 UTC 2011
Good morning, Kurt,
Perhaps, the line demarcating necessity vs luxury, is positioned
differently, depending on the person and his circumstances. So, the
position of someone's line, must be directly resulting with how much
vision, a person might have.
Car:
>Chris,
> One more thing. I'm about to make a political statement so get
>ready- I wouldn't, except this is very much a political issue. Here
>goes. The government shouldn't be in the business of providing
>luxuries. I suspect most level-headed Americans, both Liberal and
>Conservative, agree with me there, so I'm not trying to start a
>political debate. All I'm saying is, when we demand and get something
>that we don't really need, it's a slippery slope. What will we demand
>next? Where do we draw the line between something that would be nice
>and something we can't do without? I think the disagreement here is
>different blind people draw that line in different places-some say we
>can't do without the accessible currency, others say it's not a
>necessity. How do you personally decide what is something you think
>the blind community needs versus something that would be useful but
>not critical?
> Best,
>Kirt
>
>On 6/26/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Chris,
> > I know it's going to happen. I wish it wasn't, but it will and I'm
> > optomistic it will be something beneficial. I'm just concerned about
> > the mentality this fosters-lots of us already think we're entitled to
> > get everything in the whole dang world without working for it, what's
> > next? Don't get me wrong, we need things accessible, money, as I
> > think has been demonstrated over and over again, is already accessible
> > to us if we know how to handle it. We don't even need technology like
> > an iBill or LookTell app, and 99 times out of 100, I might even say
> > 999 times out of 1000, we'll be fine. Sighted people are playing by
> > pretty much the same odds-what with fraud and ponzie schemes and so
> > forth. Don't get me wrong, I'll take advantage of the usability of
> > the new money as much as anyone else. But I'm getting a little
> > frustrated with blind people demanding things we don't really need and
> > acting like it's an unalienable right to get whatever we want.
> > Best,
> > Kirt
> >
> > On 6/26/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Kirt,
> >>
> >> I say "take it when you can get it!" We're debating something
> >> that's going to happen anyway, which is fine, but the accessible
> >> currency is still going to be made no matter what we say. ACB
> >> won the case. Even if it is a luxury, let's take that luxury
> >> when we can get it!
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> >> you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> >> www.campabilities.org.
> >>
> >> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> >> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> >> on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> >> www.icanfoundation.info or like us on Facebook at I C.A.N.
> >> Foundation.
> >>
> >> Join me on Facebook: Search for Christopher Nusbaum!
> >>
> >> Sent from my BrailleNote
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> Date sent: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:52:02 -0600
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
> >> interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June
> >> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
> >>
> >> Car,
> >> That was two words. ;) I know I'm a jerk.
> >> I still think the cost is too high. If the government is going
> >> to
> >> spend millions of dollars that don't need to be spent (nothing
> >> new
> >> there), I can honestly think of more ways they could do it. How
> >> a
> >> bout just cut every blind person in America a check for a
> >> thousand
> >> dollars? That would be cheaper than replacing all the cash out
> >> there
> >> with newer bills of different size, or with tactile marks, or
> >> whatever. And, honestly, I'd probably get more use out of it.
> >> Best,
> >> Kirt
> >>
> >> On 6/24/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi, Arielle,
> >>
> >> In a word it is absolutely, worth it!
> >> Yet, if people in power are reluctant to change existiing
> >> infrastructure then divices needed to discern, individual
> >> currency,
> >> ought to be FREE in the name of total equality.
> >> for today,
> >> Car
> >> :25 PM 6/24/2011, Arielle Silverman wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >> I think there is a difference between having currency designed a
> >> certain way from the get-go, and having to change what has
> >> already
> >> been designed. So comparing India which has had identifiable
> >> currency
> >> since it became independent with the situation in the U.S. which
> >> would
> >> have to redesign the money from scratch is not really
> >> appropriate. I
> >> agree that having bills be identifiable by touch is useful for
> >> many
> >> reasons, both for the blind and the sighted. But is it worth the
> >> cost
> >> of having to redesign what has already been created?
> >> Arielle
> >>
> >> On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Kirt,
> >> I am not sure, but I would guess that the current system of
> >> Indian
> >> currency
> >> has been in place since independence in 1947 before any vending
> >> machines
> >> or
> >> ATM were invented. True it is not fair for millions of sighted
> >> individuals
> >> to have to pay and adjust to accessible currency: redesigning
> >> ATM and
> >> vending machines, replacing the cash they already have which
> >> individuals
> >> have to do every 7 years I believe or whenever a new note comes
> >> out; but
> >> if
> >> we allow the fairness arguement for the sighted keep us from
> >> advancing
> >> our
> >> goals to create opportunities and bring greater independence for
> >> the
> >> blind
> >> we would never achieve anything. If we used the fairness
> >> arguement as
> >> you
> >> described, it is not fair for millions of businesses to be
> >> mandated to build
> >> ramps or have elevaters so that hand full of persons
> >> in wheelchair can have
> >> equal access, but do we live and do we want to live in a society
> >> where
> >> only
> >> majority have access and opportunity to life because making
> >> adjustments or baring cost associated to bringing the necessary
> >> changes
> >> to
> >> make certain aspects of life accessible is unfair to the
> >> majority, or do we
> >> want a society where people are willing to adjust and bare cost
> >> so that
> >> their fellow citizens who happen to be blind or disabled can
> >> have equal
> >> opportunities and rights as them? If we take the fairness
> >> arguement,
> >> then
> >> the Americans with Disabilities ACT (ADA) is unconstitutional
> >> and
> >> it was the
> >> main reason why many businesses were opposed to it. Redesigning
> >> the currency
> >> may cause inconvenience at first, but like Europe it will soon
> >> be a part
> >> of
> >> life and an adjustment that many do not have any problems. Many
> >> sighted
> >> people have asked me why is the currency not accessible? Many
> >> sighted people
> >> who I talk to about this do not seem to mind baring the cost and
> >> the
> >> little
> >> inconvenience associated with doing this in order to bring
> >> greater
> >> opportunity and equality to the million or so blind individuals.
> >>
> >> best
> >> Anmol
> >>
> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
> >> Perhaps
> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> >> like a
> >> breeze
> >> among flowers.
> >> Hellen Keller
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
> >> interview,
> >> Ride
> >> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 8:48 PM
> >> Anmol,
> >> I didn't say India doesn't have a lot of
> >> infrastructure. I just
> >> think the US, all told, has more that would need to be
> >> replaced. I'd
> >> be interested to know if India's currency has been of
> >> different sizes
> >> ever since India became in independent country in 1948.
> >> Just think of it this way. How many times do
> >> you see an ATM in a
> >> convenience store, bank, hotel, hospital, airport or
> >> supermarket? If
> >> we made our currency different sizes, or added tactile
> >> marks, all
> >> those hundreds of thousands of ATMS would have to be
> >> replaced. I'm
> >> sure Europe had that problem adopting the euro, but it was
> >> worth the
> >> cost for most people involved. It's not fair to the
> >> however many
> >> million sighted Americans out there to make them replace
> >> all their
> >> ATMS, vending machines, cash they already have, etc.
> >> But, like I
> >> said, since it's going to happen anyway, I hope they pull
> >> off
> >> something that will work.
> >> Best,
> >> Kirt
> >>
> >> On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
> >> wrote:
> >> Kirt,
> >> Actually there is a large infrastructure in India. The
> >> thing is that
> >> identifiable currency has just become a part of life
> >> and I don't think it
> >> was ever intended to be accessable for the blind when
> >> it was designed. So
> >> why was the Indian currency designed in different
> >> sizes? I am not sure, but
> >> the sighted and blind have benefited from it alike and
> >> cost to do this can
> >> not be that high since there are not many resources
> >> and frankly it is hard
> >> to get Indian politicians to do anything good for
> >> people with disabilities
> >> is rare. Perfect example of what can be possible in
> >> the US.
> >> Anmol
> >>
> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
> >> make me sad. Perhaps
> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
> >> vague, like a breeze
> >> among flowers.
> >> Hellen Keller
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
> >> Our Eyes interview, Ride
> >> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22,
> >> 8:00 pm EDT
> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students
> >> mailing list"
> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 7:14 PM
> >> Anmol,
> >> I should never say I'm leaving-people always
> >> say
> >> stuff and I can't
> >> stay away. Here's the thing about India. As
> >> large as the population
> >> is (massive!), there's not near the infrastructure
> >> to
> >> replace. I hope
> >> that will change as India's economy becomes more
> >> and more
> >> developed
> >> and the middle class gets larger but, as it stands
> >> now, I
> >> think doing
> >> this in the US would be a lot harder than in India
> >> because
> >> of all the
> >> machinery that would need to be redone.
> >> Best,
> >> Kirt
> >>
> >> On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
> >> wrote:
> >> Kirt,
> >> The population of UK may be five times less
> >> then US,
> >> but the population of
> >> my country of India is 1 billion almost
> >> three
> >> times more then the US and
> >> still we have currency wich can be
> >> identifiable by the
> >> blind. So if India
> >> can make the transition without a problem,
> >> then it
> >> should not be that
> >> difficult for the US.
> >>
> >> Anmol
> >>
> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they
> >> never
> >> make me sad. Perhaps
> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times;
> >> but it is
> >> vague, like a breeze
> >> among flowers.
> >> Hellen Keller
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Thu, 6/23/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
> >> [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
> >> Our Eyes interview, Ride
> >> into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
> >> June 22,
> >> 8:00 pm EDT
> >> To: "National Association of Blind
> >> Students
> >> mailing list"
> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:49 PM
> >> Carley,
> >> Cool! I've never been a science
> >> guy. I'm
> >> going to straite my brain
> >> and leave the list for a couple days.
> >> Enjoy,
> >> everyone.
> >>
> >> On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi, Kurt,
> >>
> >> As I understand it, a muscle
> >> striates when it
> >> is
> >> active. If
> >> therefore, a law, procedure or
> >> cultural norm
> >> striates,
> >> it flexes its
> >> muscle, thus changing states.
> >> Have fun, Kurt!
> >> Car23/2011, you wrote:
> >> Carly,
> >> I'm not exactly sure what
> >> a
> >> striation is. The NFBwas opposed to
> >> such a measure, and I think they
> >> were
> >> right to be
> >> against it for
> >> reasons I've already mentioned.
> >> But,
> >> after
> >> the federal court judge
> >> decided to side with the ACB, the
> >> NFB
> >> decided,
> >> rightly, that it may as
> >> well be a part of the process
> >> since it was
> >> going to
> >> happen anyway. I
> >> don't really see the harm in
> >> this, do
> >> you?
> >> Best,
> >> Kirt
> >>
> >> On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis
> >> <carlymih at earthlink.net
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Good morning, Kirt,
> >>
> >> 'Seems to
> >> me though, that one ought to be able to
> >> determine
> >> shades of their own
> >> reality, which
> >> is how I
> >> understand the Federation
> >> wants its members, to
> >> conduct
> >> themselves, in
> >> the world. Yet, beyond
> >> the elaborate striations
> >> the
> >> existing system
> >> will need to experience,
> >> if such a change were to be
> >> made,
> >> how come
> >> the Federation
> >> didn't speak up when it
> >> was asked,
> >> by
> >> the Mint last time that entity
> >> produced curency?
> >> :
> >> Carly,
> >> We all make
> >> mistakes. No worries.
> >> Now, just for the
> >> heck
> >> of it, I'd like to address a point I
> >> think
> >> you made earlier. (I'm
> >> only
> >> guessing, because my gmail wouldn't read
> >> the whole message to
> >> me) But I
> >> think
> >> you said something like this.
> >> "The federation is kind
> >> of
> >> hypocritical
> >> because they rap ad noseum
> >> about independence but
> >> are stuck
> >> relying
> >> on sighted people to help
> >> them-depending on
> >> another person
> >> isn't
> >> independence at all!" If I'm
> >> off the mark, I'm sorry,
> >> but I
> >> can see you
> >> saying something like that
> >> so it's just my guess of
> >> what you
> >> said
> >> from the little bit gmail was
> >> able to read me.
> >> Here's the thing
> >> about
> >> that. Independence does not mean do
> >> everything by yourself
> >> all the
> >> time.
> >> It simply means you can do what
> >> you want to, when you
> >> want to do
> >> it, in a
> >> way that's efficient and
> >> works for you. It
> >> means,
> >> basically,
> >> that you aren't subject to
> >> another person's vision
> >> of your
> >> life, you
> >> do things the way you wish
> >> to do them. It also
> >> means you
> >> do
> >> this without really making anyone
> >> else go much out of
> >> their way to
> >> help
> >> you.
> >> So think of it
> >> this
> >> way. Every store already has a sighted
> >> worker,
> >> most of those will be
> >> honest,
> >> almost all
> >> will be honest with other
> >> people watching. If
> >> you ask
> >> that
> >> person "hey, what's this bill you're
> >> handing me?" that's in
> >> no way
> >> compromising
> >> your independence. Using
> >> technology is better
> >> because it
> >> takes away
> >> the outside chance that
> >> someone's trying to pull
> >> off some
> >> funny
> >> business but, without the
> >> technology, you're still
> >> probably
> >> safe
> >> most of the time. As we've
> >> seen already from other
> >> posts,
> >> nothing is
> >> fool proof.
> >> But back to
> >> independence
> >> and philosophy and stuff. Have you
> >> ever
> >> used a reader? If you
> >> have,
> >> you're
> >> using another person, who's
> >> chosing to do something
> >> they
> >> don't have to
> >> do; either they get money
> >> or they don't, but it
> >> works
> >> because you
> >> get the job done and you
> >> aren't forcing them to
> >> do it for
> >> you. They chose to provide their
> >> time to read you
> >> something-you
> >> aren't
> >> making them do anything. Have
> >> you ever used a sighted
> >> guide?
> >> I do,
> >> all the time. (I'm starting to
> >> less and less just to
> >> keep my
> >> cane skills
> >> up but sometimes it's just
> >> the most efficient way
> >> to get
> >> stuff
> >> done.) You can get somewhere
> >> independently and use a
> >> sighted
> >> guide, as
> >> long as you're getting there
> >> on your terms and you
> >> could do it
> >> without
> >> a guide there.
> >> See what I'm
> >> saying? Independent and interdependent
> >> aren't
> >> mutually
> >> exclusive.
> >> Best,
> >> Kirt
> >>
> >> On 6/23/11, Carly
> >> Mihalakis
> >> <carlymih at earthlink.net
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 'Morning, Kurt,
> >>
> >>
> >> 'Guess I really blew it for myuy self
> >> with all
> >> those I'd
> >> say
> >> off the wall
> >> comments,
> >> about the
> >> Ibill.
> >>
> >> Now a truth
> >> immerges which
> >> I failed
> >> to state clearly, before.
> >>
> >> 'was confused with
> >> the
> >> NoteTeller 2
> >> which, experience has shown me is
> >> unreliable, at
> >> best.
> >> Carly even the
> >> person
> >> showing
> >> them
> >> couild not
> >> make them work.
> >> It's
> >> interesting
> >> however
> >> that folks on this List have found good
> >> luck
> >> with
> >> them.
> >>
> >> Carwrote:
> >> That
> >> is your
> >> experience
> >> -- mine is that the iBill works quite
> >> well
> >> -- and
> >> I think
> >> others
> >> have found this to be true too.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> At
> >> 05:08 PM
> >> 6/22/2011,
> >> you wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> Hamberto and all
> >> interested folks,
> >>
> >>
> >> Truth be
> >> known, my
> >> common law husband and I had the I bill,
> >>
> >> courtesy of
> >> rehab
> >> but, after repeated attempts to make the
> >> thing
> >>
> >> identify
> >> paper
> >> currency, we ascertained it a genuine
> >> piece of
> >>
> >> shit
> >>
> >> and is not
> >> worth
> >> anything, so I submit that the
> >> manufacturers
> >>
> >> must
> >> be
> >> well
> >> aware of
> >> their having themselves a niche market,
> >> in blind
> >>
> >> people and
> >> the deep
> >> pocketed agencies who tend to support
> >> them,
> >>
> >> so
> >>
> >> are
> >> totally
> >> exploiting it in the manner of any
> >> Capitalist
> >> aware
> >>
> >> of
> >>
> >> the
> >> exisstance of a
> >> small and needy marketplace.
> >>
> >> So, in
> >> essence,
> >> don't waste your's or rehab's time with
> >> the I
> >>
> >> bill! 02:11
> >> PM
> >> 6/22/2011, you wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >> but what
> >> happens if I have a bill in my hand and I
> >> want
> >>
> >> to
> >>
> >> know
> >>
> >> what
> >>
> >> it is,
> >> but there
> >> is not a single sighted soul to tell me
> >> what it
> >>
> >> is? I
> >>
> >> know
> >>
> >> is a
> >> free
> >> alternative but, is it truly worth it?
> >> And, what
> >> if
> >>
> >> that
> >>
> >>
> >> sighted
> >>
> >> person
> >> lies
> >> about the amount of money that is on the
> >> bill?
> >>
> >> I would
> >> probably
> >> support ideas like the KNFB reader and
> >> the
> >>
> >> iBill
> >>
> >>
> >> identifier
> >>
> >> if they
> >> were
> >> even cheaper. If they were so, I would
> >> buy one or
> >>
> >> the
> >>
> >>
> >> other,
> >>
> >> but so
> >> far, I
> >> can not afford either one.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l
> >> mailing
> >> list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> >> for
> >>
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> >> net.org/carlymih%4
> >>
> >> 0earthlink.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l
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> >> list
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> >> ydude%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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