[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Mon Jun 27 14:13:55 UTC 2011

Joseph,
  I could go flip burgers at my local Macdonalds.  I admit it-I could!
 I actually tried to juggle a part-time job and my classes last year,
while trying to maintain a halfway active social life...it didn't
work.  Not at all.
  You make a very good point about the alternative techniques we use
in school versus work.  Certainly on the job I'll need to be as
efficient, maybe more efficient, than my sighted co-workers.  So, if I
understand you correctly, you're saying "why not start now?"  And it's
a damn good question-if I'll need to do everything in the same amount
of time as my co-workers on the job, why not do it in school?
  The answer is in school I'm taking classes that I won't need at all
for my job.  I've taken college algebra, biology, logic (which is
quite graph and table oriented), physical science, choir, ceramics,
etc throughout my education thus far and I'm pretty dang sure I won't
have to use those every day on the job.  (I'm not going in to computer
science or...well, regular science. *grin*.)  Not saying those classes
won't come in handy, just saying the alternative techniques I've
developed for those classes won't be as useful as the ones I use
for...say, reading, writing, formating word documents, etc.  In those
areas, I'm about as fast as anyone else, blind or sighted- but for
college I've had to do a lot outside those areas and I probably will
still have to.  And that takes lots of time because I'm still
developing those techniques and it's really slow going.
  And another reason I don't get a job through college.  (anymore-like
I said, I had one last semester.)  I need to focus most of my energy
on studying.  That's not really a blindness-specific thing, but I
actually know that's what most college students do.  I think at my
college they released data last year saying 40 percent of students
were employed, the rest weren't working during the school year.
So-there are plenty of sighted people who choose not to work during
school because it's hard for them to balance study-when it often takes
longer for us to do our alternative techniques (and there's nothing we
can do about it), then that problem is magnified like crazy.  Tell me
how to skim a braille book as fast as a sighted person skims their
print textbook.  Tell me how to glance at a page and see everything on
there without having to move my fingers across it all.  Tell me how to
get every detail from a tactile graph as fast as a sighted person
assimilates the information from looking at the graph?  Heck,  tell me
why we almost always ask for time extentions on huge tests like AP
tests, ACT/SAT, GRE, LSAT, and others?  Are you saying we don't need
those because we should take the same amount of time on our work as
our sighted co-workers?  Sorry, friend, that's just not practical.
You'd better make it practical in the workplace, after studying for
your particular job for years and having developed alternative
techniques as efficiently as you can...but in school, because of the
wide variety of techniques and subjects you have to learn in a
relatively short time, and because lots of those techniques just plain
take longer, getting a job isn't always practical for a blind student.
 And I feel ok with that-once I get my degree, work my butt off
finding a decent job, and get that job, I'll end my SSI benefits,
permanently, with glee.  Were I not in school getting job training, I
would right now.
  Best,
Kirt

On 6/27/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> Good morning, Joseph,
>
>   There is a local San Franciscan  who I hear is
> a waitress who works in a restaurant. I myself
> have never interviewed her, but to me that
> exemplifies what couuld be possible. 2011, you wrote:
>>Actually, the system supposedly provides an
>>income to people who are incapable of
>>working.  Thatâ€™s what permanently disabled
>>means.  You get government money because you
>>meet the definition of being unable to engage in
>>substantially gainful activity (i.e., a job).
>>The only way we achieve equality is when a
>>person is not thought to be unemployable just
>>because they are blind.  Now, I know how far we
>>are from that day.  There are a good number of
>>us who canâ€™t seem to find employment largely
>>because of that one simple fact. All Iâ€™m
>>saying is that we shouldnâ€™t delude ourselves
>>and start thinking the system is anything other
>>than what it is: A handout to the disabled,
>>because in the eyes of the government weâ€™re
>>pitiful and helpless, unable to work for a
>>living.  If stripping away the mask makes people
>>angry, it SHOULD make them angry. The social
>>security system to us represents the scraps we
>>are given to placate us.  To keep us content
>>that we still have a living, even though we do
>>not have access to the skills and opportunities
>>that would allow us to succeed, excel, and
>>compete for the same goals that our non-disabled
>>peers do. Absolutely we should use it when we
>>can as a stepping stone to something greater,
>>but so many of us fall into the trap of
>>believing that it is what we deserve.  No,
>>thereâ€™s no dignity in that kind of life, and
>>if we deserve anything at all it is dignity.  So
>>therefore I conclude that we deserve far
>>better.  And for myself at least, I intend to
>>find better. Joseph On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at
>>07:22:22PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>wrote: >Joseph, >  I think you make very good
>>points.  As I understand it, the system >is
>>designed to give financial support to those who,
>>because of >disability, have a difficult time
>>working.  The only reason I'm on SSI >is because
>>doing my school work, on average, takes a
>>substantially >longer time than it would if I
>>were sighted because the alternative >techniques
>>I use often are slower than using
>>sight.  (readers, test >scribes, needing to feel
>>all the details on braille graphs vs.
>>being >able to look at it all at once and glance
>>at what I need later, etc.) >School is preparing
>>me to work a regular job-since my
>>alternative >techniques require lots of time
>>work isn't really practical for me >while I go
>>through school.  I suspect that's why you
>>applied for SSI >in the first place.  The system
>>is not designed to take people who
>>are >perfectly capable of working and make them
>>in to couch potatoes-I >think that's an
>>unfortunate side effect of the whole
>>deal.  Rest >assured, once I get a full-time
>>job, I'll cut the chord with
>>SSI. >Permanently. >  I can only speak for me,
>>and how I see the system.  I don't think it >was
>>ever intended to be a handout or something to
>>keep able people >from working.  It's
>>unfortunate many people abuse the system and,
>>I'll >admit, it makes me angry!  But do you have
>>a better idea to make sure >we're able to get
>>the education we need to work?  And anyway (I'm
>>not >talking about you, I don't know your
>>situation), if someone's able to >work a
>>full-time job, what business do they have
>>getting SSI?  Best, >Kirt > >On 6/26/11, T.
>>Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>wrote: >> Wait, are you saying the system is
>>designed for us to sit on our >> collective
>>duffs and mooch off of others while we piddle
>>around and >> do nothing?  Does that seem like
>>an appropriate system to you? >> >> You know how
>>most people get through school?  They work.  Why
>>should >> we be different?  Yes, I know we ARE,
>>but why should we accept that? >> We cannot work
>>through school because the very act of going
>>through >> school takes us
>>longer.  Why?  Because we havenâ€™t got the
>>skills to >> keep up.  Why?  Because the same
>>system that is giving us our little >> handout
>>(for which Iâ€™m told we should be grateful) has
>>actively >> interfered in our efforts to be and
>>do better than that. >> >> As for suing, how,
>>whom, and why?  My benefits were never
>>actually >> stopped, only threatened.  Just
>>enough to keep me jumping for my >> government
>>slavemasters.  I was entitled to, had, and won
>>each of my >> appeals, so the system worked as
>>designed. >> >> Iâ€™m just no longer willing to
>>be a slave. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sat, Jun
>>25, 2011 at 01:18:23PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>wrote: >>>Joseph, >>>  You make great points,
>>and I really do feel for
>>you.  That's >>>aweful...like, maybe get a
>>social security lawyer kind of aweful. >>>  All
>>I'm saying is, the way the system is intended to
>>work (and the >>>way it works for a lot of us),
>>SSI is necessary income.  I'm using it >>>so I
>>don't starve through school; the minute I get
>>out and find a >>>full-time job, I'm saying
>>goodbye to my SSI for good.  That's how
>>it >>>should be-use it to get yourself able to
>>work then cut the cord.  I >>>know lots of
>>people abuse it, I know it's poorly managed, and
>>I know >>>you're getting screwed by the
>>system.  But the way I see it, it's >>>designed
>>to be a boost up to equality, not a handout.  Of
>>course, >>>everyone doesn't use it that
>>way. >>>  In any case, best of luck.  I hope
>>things work out for you.  For >>>what it's
>>worth, I'm sorry you're going through all this
>>crap. >>>  Best wishes, >>>Kirt >>> >>>On
>>6/25/11, T. Joseph Carter
>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>
>>Kirt, >>>> >>>> Social Security and SSI are
>>still a handout, and they come with >>>> strings
>>attached that make getting off of them pretty
>>difficult. >>>> Especially if you live in
>>subsidized housing, collect food stamps, >>>>
>>receive utility subsidies, etc.  If you do and
>>you go and find >>>> yourself a job that
>>doesnâ€™t pay enough, you will have a sudden
>>net >>>> reduction in your income that already
>>doesnâ€™t pay the bills. >>>> >>>> Iâ€™ve
>>decided Iâ€™m getting off this roller coaster
>>even if it makes me >>>> homeless in the
>>process, because Iâ€™m sick and tired of living
>>in fear >>>> that they might take away my
>>benefits!  Iâ€™ve gotten three letters to >>>>
>>that effect in the past two years, in the midst
>>of cancer treatment >>>> for two of them, all
>>with the customary 30 day appeal Iâ€™d better
>>take >>>> advantage of if I want to be able to
>>survive another month! >>>> >>>> Iâ€™m tired of
>>getting paid to NOT work.  Iâ€™m tired of living
>>in places >>>> where the government intrudes
>>upon my home three times a year to make >>>>
>>sure my landlord isnâ€™t complete pond scum (but
>>allowing them to be >>>> one level removed from
>>pond scum!)  Iâ€™m tired of being told that if
>>I >>>> start working, my rent will suddenly be
>>120% of what anybody in their >>>> right might
>>would ever pay for this dump.  And Iâ€™m tired
>>of being >>>> told that theyâ€™re sorry, but I
>>just donâ€™t qualify for the work >>>>
>>incentives, or the better medical coverage, or
>>the exemptions that >>>> might possibly allow me
>>to save a few hundred dollars with which to >>>>
>>actually get out of here! >>>> >>>> Your
>>not-a-handout Social Security and SSI have made
>>slaves of far >>>> too many of us.  Perfectly
>>able to work, but afraid to try for fear >>>>
>>that weâ€™ll lose what little weâ€™ve got.  We
>>are trapped in a prison of >>>> learned
>>helplessness, and the only way out is to see
>>these things—all >>>> of them—for what they are:
>>G: Government handouts designed to keep us >>>>
>>docile, afraid, and living in poverty. >>>> >>>>
>>Iâ€™m done playing that game. >>>> >>>>
>>Joseph >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at
>>09:13:21AM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>wrote: >>>>>Carley, >>>>>  First off, I've done
>>a bit of really light research and I was
>>way >>>>>liberal about what I thought the cost
>>of this would be.  It's probably >>>>>going to
>>be in the neighborhood of $100 million, so I was
>>way off. >>>>>That'll teach me not to make
>>outlandish statements with no proof. >>>>>  But
>>still, the point I made in my last message
>>stands.  Of course I >>>>>don't want the
>>government to write out a check for all of us-I
>>was >>>>>trying to point out that trying to make
>>all the cash out there
>>more >>>>>"blind-friendly" is not
>>necessary.  Just like we don't need
>>government >>>>>handouts (I'm not counting SSI
>>as a government handout because
>>that's >>>>>money lots of us genuinely need), we
>>don't need the government >>>>>spending $100
>>million redesigning currency we can already use
>>with >>>>>pretty much no problem.  Honestly, if
>>you think you can't afford an >>>>>iBill,
>>there's probably something you're buying with
>>your $680 a month >>>>>that you really don't
>>need. >>>>>  Just a thought, >>>>>Kirt >>>> >>>>
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