[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Carly Mihalakis carlymih at earthlink.net
Mon Jun 27 16:04:55 UTC 2011



Good morning, Chris,

Okay, you wish to end this fun but I will remind you that, politics 
lies as the foundation of everything, so you can't simply turn it 
off. Don't forget it.
CarAt 08:54 AM 6/27/2011, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>Good point! As a conservative (but a level-headed one,) I agree.
>But let's stop the political stuff (that is, the political stuff 
>that doesn't have anything to do with blindness) before we get too 
>far into it on the list.  Dave's probably worried now! :)
>
>Chris
>
>"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
>To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, 
>just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org.
>
>The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland 
>have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link 
>to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info or like us 
>on Facebook at I C.A.N.
>Foundation.
>
>Join me on Facebook: Search for Christopher Nusbaum!
>
>Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 10:05:38 -0600
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes 
>interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>
>Chris,
>  One more thing.  I'm about to make a political statement so get
>ready- I wouldn't, except this is very much a political issue.
>Here
>goes.  The government shouldn't be in the business of providing
>luxuries.  I suspect most level-headed Americans, both Liberal and
>Conservative, agree with me there, so I'm not trying to start a
>political debate.  All I'm saying is, when we demand and get something
>that we don't really need, it's a slippery slope.  What will we demand
>next?  Where do we draw the line between something that would be nice
>and something we can't do without?  I think the disagreement here is
>different blind people draw that line in different places-some say we
>can't do without the accessible currency, others say it's not a
>necessity.  How do you personally decide what is something you think
>the blind community needs versus something that would be useful but
>not critical?
>  Best,
>Kirt
>
>On 6/26/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>Chris,
>   I know it's going to happen.  I wish it wasn't, but it will and I'm
>optomistic it will be something beneficial.  I'm just concerned about
>the mentality this fosters-lots of us already think we're entitled to
>get everything in the whole dang world without working for it, what's
>next?  Don't get me wrong, we need things accessible, money, as I
>think has been demonstrated over and over again, is already accessible
>to us if we know how to handle it.  We don't even need technology like
>an iBill or LookTell app, and 99 times out of 100, I might even say
>999 times out of 1000, we'll be fine.  Sighted people are playing by
>pretty much the same odds-what with fraud and ponzie schemes and so
>forth.  Don't get me wrong, I'll take advantage of the usability of
>the new money as much as anyone else.  But I'm getting a little
>frustrated with blind people demanding things we don't really need and
>acting like it's an unalienable right to get whatever we want.
>   Best,
>Kirt
>
>On 6/26/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>Kirt,
>
>I say "take it when you can get it!" We're debating something
>that's going to happen anyway, which is fine, but the accessible
>currency is still going to be made no matter what we say.  ACB
>won the case.  Even if it is a luxury, let's take that luxury
>when we can get it!
>
>  Chris
>
>"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
>To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
>you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
>www.campabilities.org.
>
>The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
>Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
>on this link to learn more and to contribute:
>www.icanfoundation.info or like us on Facebook at I C.A.N.
>Foundation.
>
>Join me on Facebook: Search for Christopher Nusbaum!
>
>  Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:52:02 -0600
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June
>22, 8:00 pm EDT
>
>Car,
>   That was two words.  ;)  I know I'm a jerk.
>   I still think the cost is too high.  If the government is going
>to
>spend millions of dollars that don't need to be spent (nothing
>new
>there), I can honestly think of more ways they could do it.  How
>a
>bout just cut every blind person in America a check for a
>thousand
>dollars?  That would be cheaper than replacing all the cash out
>there
>with newer bills of different size, or with tactile marks, or
>whatever.  And, honestly, I'd probably get more use out of it.
>   Best,
>Kirt
>
>On 6/24/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>  Hi, Arielle,
>
>  In a word it is absolutely, worth it!
>  Yet, if people in power are reluctant to change existiing
>  infrastructure then divices needed to discern, individual
>currency,
>  ought to be FREE in the name of total equality.
>  for today,
>  Car
>  :25 PM 6/24/2011, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>Hi all,
>I think there is a difference between having currency designed a
>certain way from the get-go, and having to change what has
>already
>been designed.  So comparing India which has had identifiable
>currency
>since it became independent with the situation in the U.S.
>which
>would
>have to redesign the money from scratch is not really
>appropriate.  I
>agree that having bills be identifiable by touch is useful for
>many
>reasons, both for the blind and the sighted.  But is it worth the
>cost
>of having to redesign what has already been created?
>Arielle
>
>On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>  Kirt,
>  I am not sure, but I would guess that the current system of
>Indian
>  currency
>  has been in place since independence in 1947 before any vending
>machines
>  or
>  ATM were invented.  True it is not fair for millions of sighted
>  individuals
>  to have to pay and adjust to accessible currency: redesigning
>ATM and
>  vending machines, replacing the cash they already have which
>individuals
>  have to do every 7 years I believe or whenever a new note comes
>out; but
>  if
>  we allow the fairness arguement for the sighted keep us from
>advancing
>  our
>  goals to create opportunities and bring greater independence for
>the
>  blind
>  we would never achieve anything.  If we used the fairness
>arguement as
>  you
>  described, it is not fair for millions of businesses to be
>  mandated to build
>  ramps or have elevaters so that hand full of persons
>  in  wheelchair can have
>  equal access, but do we live and do we want to live in a society
>where
>  only
>  majority have access and opportunity to life because making
>   adjustments or baring cost associated to bringing the necessary
>changes
>  to
>  make certain aspects of life accessible  is unfair to the
>  majority, or do we
>  want a society where people are willing to adjust and bare cost
>so that
>  their fellow citizens who happen to be blind or disabled can
>have equal
>  opportunities and rights as them? If we take the fairness
>arguement,
>  then
>  the Americans with Disabilities ACT (ADA) is unconstitutional
>and
>  it was the
>  main reason why many businesses were opposed to it.
>Redesigning
>  the currency
>  may cause inconvenience at first, but like Europe it will soon
>be a part
>  of
>  life and an adjustment that many do not have any problems.
>Many
>sighted
>  people have asked me why is the currency not accessible? Many
>  sighted people
>  who I talk to about this do not seem to mind baring the cost and
>the
>  little
>  inconvenience associated with doing this in order to bring
>greater
>  opportunity and equality to the million or so blind individuals.
>
>  best
>  Anmol
>
>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>Perhaps
>  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>like a
>  breeze
>  among flowers.
>  Hellen Keller
>
>
>  --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>wrote:
>
>  From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>interview,
>  Ride
>  into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 8:48 PM
>  Anmol,
>    I didn't say India doesn't have a lot of
>  infrastructure.  I just
>  think the US, all told, has more that would need to be
>  replaced.  I'd
>  be interested to know if India's currency has been of
>  different sizes
>  ever since India became in independent country in 1948.
>    Just think of it this way.  How many times do
>  you see an ATM in a
>  convenience store, bank, hotel, hospital, airport or
>  supermarket?  If
>  we made our currency different sizes, or added tactile
>  marks, all
>  those hundreds of thousands of ATMS would have to be
>  replaced.  I'm
>  sure Europe had that problem adopting the euro, but it was
>  worth the
>  cost for most people involved.  It's not fair to the
>  however many
>  million sighted Americans out there to make them replace
>  all their
>  ATMS, vending machines, cash they already have, etc.
>  But, like I
>  said, since it's going to happen anyway, I hope they pull
>  off
>  something that will work.
>    Best,
>  Kirt
>
>  On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
>  wrote:
>  Kirt,
>  Actually there is a large infrastructure in India.  The
>  thing is that
>  identifiable currency has just become a part of life
>  and I don't think it
>  was ever intended to be accessable for the blind when
>  it was designed.  So
>  why was the Indian currency designed in different
>  sizes? I am not sure, but
>  the sighted and blind have benefited from it alike and
>  cost to do this can
>  not be that high since there are not many resources
>  and frankly it is hard
>  to get Indian politicians to do anything good for
>  people with disabilities
>  is rare.  Perfect example of what can be possible in
>  the US.
>  Anmol
>
>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>  make me sad.  Perhaps
>  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
>  vague, like a breeze
>  among flowers.
>  Hellen Keller
>
>
>  --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>  wrote:
>
>  From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>  Our Eyes interview, Ride
>  into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 22,
>  8:00 pm EDT
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students
>  mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 7:14 PM
>  Anmol,
>    I should never say I'm leaving-people always
>  say
>  stuff and I can't
>  stay away.  Here's the thing about India.  As
>  large as the population
>  is (massive!), there's not near the infrastructure
>  to
>  replace.  I hope
>  that will change as India's economy becomes more
>  and more
>  developed
>  and the middle class gets larger but, as it stands
>  now, I
>  think doing
>  this in the US would be a lot harder than in India
>  because
>  of all the
>  machinery that would need to be redone.
>    Best,
>  Kirt
>
>  On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
>  wrote:
>  Kirt,
>  The population of UK may be five times less
>  then US,
>  but the population of
>  my country of India is 1 billion  almost
>  three
>  times more then the US and
>  still we have currency wich can be
>  identifiable by the
>  blind.  So if India
>  can make the transition without a problem,
>  then it
>  should not be that
>  difficult for the US.
>
>  Anmol
>
>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they
>  never
>  make me sad.  Perhaps
>  there is just a touch of yearning at times;
>  but it is
>  vague, like a breeze
>  among flowers.
>  Hellen Keller
>
>
>  --- On Thu, 6/23/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>  wrote:
>
>  From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>  [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>  Our Eyes interview, Ride
>  into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
>  June 22,
>  8:00 pm EDT
>  To: "National Association of Blind
>  Students
>  mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:49 PM
>  Carley,
>    Cool!  I've never been a science
>  guy.  I'm
>  going to straite my brain
>  and leave the list for a couple days.
>  Enjoy,
>  everyone.
>
>  On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net
>  wrote:
>
>
>  Hi, Kurt,
>
>  As I understand it, a muscle
>  striates when it
>  is
>  active.  If
>  therefore, a law, procedure or
>  cultural norm
>  striates,
>  it flexes its
>  muscle, thus changing states.
>  Have fun, Kurt!
>  Car23/2011, you wrote:
>Carly,
>    I'm not exactly sure what
>  a
>  striation is.  The NFBwas opposed to
>such a measure, and I think they
>  were
>  right to be
>  against it for
>reasons I've already mentioned.
>  But,
>  after
>  the federal court judge
>decided to side with the ACB, the
>  NFB
>  decided,
>  rightly, that it may as
>well be a part of the process
>  since it was
>  going to
>  happen anyway.  I
>don't really see the harm in
>  this, do
>  you?
>    Best,
>Kirt
>
>On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis
>  <carlymih at earthlink.net
>  wrote:
>
>
>  Good morning, Kirt,
>
>           'Seems to
>  me though, that one ought to be able to
>  determine
>  shades of their own
>  reality, which
>  is how I
>  understand the Federation
>  wants its members, to
>  conduct
>  themselves, in
>  the world.  Yet, beyond
>  the elaborate striations
>  the
>  existing system
>  will need to experience,
>  if such a change were to be
>  made,
>  how come
>  the Federation
>  didn't  speak up when it
>  was asked,
>  by
>  the Mint last time that entity
>  produced curency?
>  :
>Carly,
>    We all make
>  mistakes.  No worries.
>    Now, just for the
>  heck
>  of it, I'd like to address a point I
>  think
>you made earlier.  (I'm
>  only
>  guessing, because my gmail wouldn't read
>the whole message to
>  me)  But I
>  think
>  you said something like this.
>"The federation is kind
>  of
>  hypocritical
>  because they rap ad noseum
>about independence but
>  are stuck
>  relying
>  on sighted people to help
>them-depending on
>  another person
>  isn't
>  independence at all!"  If I'm
>off the mark, I'm sorry,
>  but I
>  can see you
>  saying something like that
>so it's just my guess of
>  what you
>  said
>  from the little bit gmail was
>able to read me.
>    Here's the thing
>  about
>  that.  Independence does not mean do
>everything by yourself
>  all the
>  time.
>  It simply means you can do what
>you want to, when you
>  want to do
>  it, in a
>  way that's efficient and
>works for you.  It
>  means,
>  basically,
>  that you aren't subject to
>another person's vision
>  of your
>  life, you
>  do things the way you wish
>to do them.  It also
>  means you
>  do
>  this without really making anyone
>else go much out of
>  their way to
>  help
>  you.
>    So think of it
>  this
>  way.  Every store already has a sighted
>  worker,
>most of those will be
>  honest,
>  almost all
>  will be honest with other
>people watching.  If
>  you ask
>  that
>  person "hey, what's this bill you're
>handing me?" that's in
>  no way
>  compromising
>  your independence.  Using
>technology is better
>  because it
>  takes away
>  the outside chance that
>someone's trying to pull
>  off some
>  funny
>  business but, without the
>technology, you're still
>  probably
>  safe
>  most of the time.  As we've
>seen already from other
>  posts,
>  nothing is
>  fool proof.
>    But back to
>  independence
>  and philosophy and stuff.  Have you
>  ever
>used a reader?  If you
>  have,
>  you're
>  using another person, who's
>chosing to do something
>  they
>  don't have to
>  do; either they get money
>or they don't, but it
>  works
>  because you
>  get the job done and you
>aren't forcing them to
>  do it for
>  you.  They chose to provide their
>time to read you
>  something-you
>  aren't
>  making them do anything.  Have
>you ever used a sighted
>  guide?
>  I do,
>  all the time.  (I'm starting to
>less and less just to
>  keep my
>  cane skills
>  up but sometimes it's just
>the most efficient way
>  to get
>  stuff
>  done.)  You can get somewhere
>independently and use a
>  sighted
>  guide, as
>  long as you're getting there
>on your terms and you
>  could do it
>  without
>  a guide there.
>    See what I'm
>  saying?  Independent and interdependent
>  aren't
>  mutually
>exclusive.
>    Best,
>Kirt
>
>On 6/23/11, Carly
>  Mihalakis
>  <carlymih at earthlink.net
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>  'Morning, Kurt,
>
>
>  'Guess I really blew it for myuy self
>  with all
>  those I'd
>  say
>  off the wall
>  comments,
>  about the
>  Ibill.
>
>  Now a truth
>  immerges which
>  I failed
>  to state clearly, before.
>
>  'was confused with
>  the
>  NoteTeller 2
>  which, experience has shown me is
>  unreliable, at
>  best.
>  Carly even the
>  person
>  showing
>  them
>  couild not
>  make them work.
>  It's
>  interesting
>  however
>  that folks on this List have found good
>  luck
>  with
>  them.
>
>  Carwrote:
>That
>  is your
>  experience
>  -- mine is that the iBill works quite
>  well
>-- and
>  I think
>  others
>  have found this to be true too.
>
>Dave
>
>At
>  05:08 PM
>  6/22/2011,
>  you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>Hi,
>  Hamberto and all
>  interested folks,
>
>
>Truth be
>  known, my
>  common law husband and I had the I bill,
>
>courtesy of
>  rehab
>  but, after repeated attempts to make the
>  thing
>
>identify
>  paper
>  currency, we ascertained it a genuine
>  piece of
>
>  shit
>
>and is not
>  worth
>  anything, so I submit that the
>  manufacturers
>
>  must
>be
>  well
>  aware of
>  their having themselves a niche market,
>  in blind
>
>people and
>  the deep
>  pocketed agencies who tend to support
>  them,
>
>  so
>
>are
>  totally
>  exploiting it in the manner of any
>  Capitalist
>  aware
>
>  of
>
>the
>  exisstance of a
>  small and needy marketplace.
>
>So, in
>  essence,
>  don't waste your's or rehab's  time with
>  the I
>
>bill! 02:11
>  PM
>  6/22/2011, you wrote:
>
>Hello,
>  but what
>  happens if I have a bill in my hand and I
>  want
>
>  to
>
>  know
>
>  what
>
>it is,
>  but there
>  is not a single sighted soul to tell me
>  what it
>
>  is? I
>
>  know
>
>is a
>  free
>  alternative but, is it truly worth it?
>  And, what
>  if
>
>  that
>
>
>  sighted
>
>person
>  lies
>  about the amount of money that is on the
>  bill?
>
>I would
>  probably
>  support ideas like the KNFB reader and
>  the
>
>  iBill
>
>
>  identifier
>
>if they
>  were
>  even cheaper.  If they were so, I would
>  buy one or
>
>  the
>
>
>  other,
>
>but so
>  far, I
>  can not afford either one.
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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