[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Tue Jun 28 01:26:18 UTC 2011

Hi, Kurt,

'Thought I had missed where Joseph edified the 
list, as to which jobs he himself has had, while 
going to school. At 03:04 PM 6/27/2011, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
>Joeseph, Ah, sighted people have so called 
>handouts too like food stamps and if you are 
>poor enough, Medicaid. This philosophy doesn't 
>match reality. The reality is it takes longer to 
>study college material, particularly visual 
>subjects since we got to have descriptions or a 
>reader make tactile diagrams. The reality is 
>that many colleges such as the community college 
>do not have updated screen reading software 
>making it an unlevel playing field. The reality 
>is that if you are not writing that short essay 
>yourself, it takes longer, I mean longer, to 
>dictate it to a scribe. Oh then that scribe has 
>to read it back to you with punctuation to 
>ensure you have it as you want it, where as a 
>sighted person can read it silently. Maybe you 
>took all your tests electronically, and used 
>jaws fast, but not all of us have that resource. 
>Bottom line it takes longer to study and as Kirt 
>said working while in school is Not practical 
>for many reasons. You never said what part time 
>jobs we could do anyway. You yourself haven't 
>had many interviews even with a college diploma. 
>Remember most college students are servers or 
>are selling something like tickets.  When I took 
>interpersonal communication we did introductions 
>and like a fourth of the class was waiting 
>tables part time at restaurants; a few were 
>pizza delivery drivers. Now a blind person can't 
>perform the duties of those jobs.  I said before 
>you can work part time if you find the right 
>employer; you could work as a tutor, babysitter, 
>dog walker, or maybe even as a 
>receptionist.  But its hard to find an open 
>minded employer without that college education 
>and I contend that its harder to find little odd 
>jobs to work through school. So seems to me you 
>really are not practicing what your preaching. 
>Show me some blind students who work part time 
>and how they do it.  Come on, is an employer 
>really going to say, buy jaws when the employee 
>is only working 20 hours a week and won't be 
>there for the long term?  Do you really think 
>that employer will invest $1000 for that part 
>time receptionist or customer service 
>representative?  That money goes toward a screen 
>reader. I do hope you find work soon though so 
>you won't have to deal with the government. 
>Ashley -----Original Message----- From: T. 
>Joseph Carter Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:26 
>AM To: National Association of Blind Students 
>mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] 
>[Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, 
>Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. 
>June 22, 8:00 pm EDT Actually, the system 
>supposedly provides an income to people who are 
>incapable of working.  Thatâ€™s what permanently 
>disabled means.  You get government money 
>because you meet the definition of being unable 
>to engage in substantially gainful activity 
>(i.e., a job). The only way we achieve equality 
>is when a person is not thought to be 
>unemployable just because they are blind.  Now, 
>I know how far we are from that day.  There are 
>a good number of us who canâ€™t seem to find 
>employment largely because of that one simple 
>fact. All Iâ€™m saying is that we shouldnâ€™t 
>delude ourselves and start thinking the system 
>is anything other than what it is: A handout to 
>the disabled, because in the eyes of the 
>government weâ€™re pitiful and helpless, unable 
>to work for a living.  If stripping away the 
>mask makes people angry, it SHOULD make them 
>angry. The social security system to us 
>represents the scraps we are given to placate 
>us.  To keep us content that we still have a 
>living, even though we do not have access to the 
>skills and opportunities that would allow us to 
>succeed, excel, and compete for the same goals 
>that our non-disabled peers do. Absolutely we 
>should use it when we can as a stepping stone to 
>something greater, but so many of us fall into 
>the trap of believing that it is what we 
>deserve.  No, thereâ€™s no dignity in that kind 
>of life, and if we deserve anything at all it is 
>dignity.  So therefore I conclude that we 
>deserve far better.  And for myself at least, I 
>intend to find better. Joseph On Sun, Jun 26, 
>2011 at 07:22:22PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring 
>wrote: >Joseph, >  I think you make very good 
>points.  As I understand it, the system >is 
>designed to give financial support to those who, 
>because of >disability, have a difficult time 
>working.  The only reason I'm on SSI >is because 
>doing my school work, on average, takes a 
>substantially >longer time than it would if I 
>were sighted because the alternative >techniques 
>I use often are slower than using 
>sight.  (readers, test >scribes, needing to feel 
>all the details on braille graphs vs. 
>being >able to look at it all at once and glance 
>at what I need later, etc.) >School is preparing 
>me to work a regular job-since my 
>alternative >techniques require lots of time 
>work isn't really practical for me >while I go 
>through school.  I suspect that's why you 
>applied for SSI >in the first place.  The system 
>is not designed to take people who 
>are >perfectly capable of working and make them 
>in to couch potatoes-I >think that's an 
>unfortunate side effect of the whole 
>deal.  Rest >assured, once I get a full-time 
>job, I'll cut the chord with 
>SSI. >Permanently. >  I can only speak for me, 
>and how I see the system.  I don't think it >was 
>ever intended to be a handout or something to 
>keep able people >from working.  It's 
>unfortunate many people abuse the system and, 
>I'll >admit, it makes me angry!  But do you have 
>a better idea to make sure >we're able to get 
>the education we need to work?  And anyway (I'm 
>not >talking about you, I don't know your 
>situation), if someone's able to >work a 
>full-time job, what business do they have 
>getting SSI?  Best, >Kirt > >On 6/26/11, T. 
>Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> 
>wrote: >> Wait, are you saying the system is 
>designed for us to sit on our >> collective 
>duffs and mooch off of others while we piddle 
>around and >> do nothing?  Does that seem like 
>an appropriate system to you? >> >> You know how 
>most people get through school?  They work.  Why 
>should >> we be different?  Yes, I know we ARE, 
>but why should we accept that? >> We cannot work 
>through school because the very act of going 
>through >> school takes us 
>longer.  Why?  Because we havenâ€™t got the 
>skills to >> keep up.  Why?  Because the same 
>system that is giving us our little >> handout 
>(for which Iâ€™m told we should be grateful) has 
>actively >> interfered in our efforts to be and 
>do better than that. >> >> As for suing, how, 
>whom, and why?  My benefits were never 
>actually >> stopped, only threatened.  Just 
>enough to keep me jumping for my >> government 
>slavemasters.  I was entitled to, had, and won 
>each of my >> appeals, so the system worked as 
>designed. >> >> Iâ€™m just no longer willing to 
>be a slave. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 
>25, 2011 at 01:18:23PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring 
>wrote: >>>Joseph, >>>  You make great points, 
>and I really do feel for 
>you.  That's >>>aweful...like, maybe get a 
>social security lawyer kind of aweful. >>>  All 
>I'm saying is, the way the system is intended to 
>work (and the >>>way it works for a lot of us), 
>SSI is necessary income.  I'm using it >>>so I 
>don't starve through school; the minute I get 
>out and find a >>>full-time job, I'm saying 
>goodbye to my SSI for good.  That's how 
>it >>>should be-use it to get yourself able to 
>work then cut the cord.  I >>>know lots of 
>people abuse it, I know it's poorly managed, and 
>I know >>>you're getting screwed by the 
>system.  But the way I see it, it's >>>designed 
>to be a boost up to equality, not a handout.  Of 
>course, >>>everyone doesn't use it that 
>way. >>>  In any case, best of luck.  I hope 
>things work out for you.  For >>>what it's 
>worth, I'm sorry you're going through all this 
>crap. >>>  Best wishes, >>>Kirt >>> >>>On 
>6/25/11, T. Joseph Carter 
><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> 
>Kirt, >>>> >>>> Social Security and SSI are 
>still a handout, and they come with >>>> strings 
>attached that make getting off of them pretty 
>difficult. >>>> Especially if you live in 
>subsidized housing, collect food stamps, >>>> 
>receive utility subsidies, etc.  If you do and 
>you go and find >>>> yourself a job that 
>doesnâ€™t pay enough, you will have a sudden 
>net >>>> reduction in your income that already 
>doesnâ€™t pay the bills. >>>> >>>> Iâ€™ve 
>decided Iâ€™m getting off this roller coaster 
>even if it makes me >>>> homeless in the 
>process, because Iâ€™m sick and tired of living 
>in fear >>>> that they might take away my 
>benefits!  Iâ€™ve gotten three letters to >>>> 
>that effect in the past two years, in the midst 
>of cancer treatment >>>> for two of them, all 
>with the customary 30 day appeal Iâ€™d better 
>take >>>> advantage of if I want to be able to 
>survive another month! >>>> >>>> Iâ€™m tired of 
>getting paid to NOT work.  Iâ€™m tired of living 
>in places >>>> where the government intrudes 
>upon my home three times a year to make >>>> 
>sure my landlord isnâ€™t complete pond scum (but 
>allowing them to be >>>> one level removed from 
>pond scum!)  Iâ€™m tired of being told that if 
>I >>>> start working, my rent will suddenly be 
>120% of what anybody in their >>>> right might 
>would ever pay for this dump.  And Iâ€™m tired 
>of being >>>> told that theyâ€™re sorry, but I 
>just donâ€™t qualify for the work >>>> 
>incentives, or the better medical coverage, or 
>the exemptions that >>>> might possibly allow me 
>to save a few hundred dollars with which to >>>> 
>actually get out of here! >>>> >>>> Your 
>not-a-handout Social Security and SSI have made 
>slaves of far >>>> too many of us.  Perfectly 
>able to work, but afraid to try for fear >>>> 
>that weâ€™ll lose what little weâ€™ve got.  We 
>are trapped in a prison of >>>> learned 
>helplessness, and the only way out is to see 
>these things—all >>>> of them—for what theyhey 
>are: Government handouts designed to keep 
>us >>>> docile, afraid, and living in 
>poverty. >>>> >>>> Iâ€™m done playing that 
>game. >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, 
>Jun 25, 2011 at 09:13:21AM -0600, Kirt Manwaring 
>wrote: >>>>>Carley, >>>>>  First off, I've done 
>a bit of really light research and I was 
>way >>>>>liberal about what I thought the cost 
>of this would be.  It's probably >>>>>going to 
>be in the neighborhood of $100 million, so I was 
>way off. >>>>>That'll teach me not to make 
>outlandish statements with no proof. >>>>>  But 
>still, the point I made in my last message 
>stands.  Of course I >>>>>don't want the 
>government to write out a check for all of us-I 
>was >>>>>trying to point out that trying to make 
>all the cash out there 
>more >>>>>"blind-friendly" is not 
>necessary.  Just like we don't need 
>government >>>>>handouts (I'm not counting SSI 
>as a government handout because 
>that's >>>>>money lots of us genuinely need), we 
>don't need the government >>>>>spending $100 
>million redesigning currency we can already use 
>with >>>>>pretty much no problem.  Honestly, if 
>you think you can't afford an >>>>>iBill, 
>there's probably something you're buying with 
>your $680 a month >>>>>that you really don't 
>need. >>>>>  Just a thought, >>>>>Kirt >>>> >>>> 
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