[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

[bookwormahb at earthlink.net]

Joeseph,
Ah, sighted people have so called handouts too like food stamps and if you 
are poor enough, Medicaid. This philosophy doesn't match reality. The 
reality is it takes longer to study college material, particularly visual 
subjects since we got to have descriptions or a reader make tactile 
diagrams. The reality is that many colleges such as the community college do 
not have updated screen reading software making it an unlevel playing field. 
The reality is that if you are not writing that short essay yourself, it 
takes longer, I mean longer, to dictate it to a scribe. Oh then that scribe 
has to read it back to you with punctuation to ensure you have it as you 
want it, where as a sighted person can read it silently.
Maybe you took all your tests electronically, and used jaws fast, but not 
all of us have that resource.
Bottom line it takes longer to study and as Kirt said working while in 
school is Not practical for many reasons.
You never said what part time jobs we could do anyway. You yourself haven't 
had many interviews even with a college diploma.
Remember most college students are servers or are selling something like 
tickets.  When I took interpersonal communication we did introductions and 
like a fourth of the class was waiting tables part time at restaurants; a 
few were pizza delivery drivers.
Now a blind person can't perform the duties of those jobs.  I said before 
you can work part time if you find the right employer; you could work as a 
tutor, babysitter, dog walker, or maybe even as a receptionist.  But its 
hard to find an open minded employer without that college education and I 
contend that its harder to find little odd jobs to work through school.

So seems to me you really are not practicing what your preaching.
Show me some blind students who work part time and how they do it.  Come on, 
is an employer really going to say, buy jaws when the employee is only 
working 20 hours a week and won't be there for the long term?  Do you really 
think that employer will invest $1000 for that part time receptionist or 
customer service representative?  That money goes toward a screen reader.

I do hope you find work soon though so you won't have to deal with the 
government.

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:26 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride 
into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Actually, the system supposedly provides an income to people who are
incapable of working.  That’s what permanently disabled means.  You
get government money because you meet the definition of being unable
to engage in substantially gainful activity (i.e., a job).

The only way we achieve equality is when a person is not thought to
be unemployable just because they are blind.  Now, I know how far we
are from that day.  There are a good number of us who can’t seem to
find employment largely because of that one simple fact.

All I’m saying is that we shouldn’t delude ourselves and start
thinking the system is anything other than what it is: A handout to
the disabled, because in the eyes of the government we’re pitiful and
helpless, unable to work for a living.  If stripping away the mask
makes people angry, it SHOULD make them angry.

The social security system to us represents the scraps we are given
to placate us.  To keep us content that we still have a living, even
though we do not have access to the skills and opportunities that
would allow us to succeed, excel, and compete for the same goals that
our non-disabled peers do.

Absolutely we should use it when we can as a stepping stone to
something greater, but so many of us fall into the trap of believing
that it is what we deserve.  No, there’s no dignity in that kind of
life, and if we deserve anything at all it is dignity.  So therefore
I conclude that we deserve far better.  And for myself at least, I
intend to find better.

Joseph


On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 07:22:22PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>Joseph,
>  I think you make very good points.  As I understand it, the system
>is designed to give financial support to those who, because of
>disability, have a difficult time working.  The only reason I'm on SSI
>is because doing my school work, on average, takes a substantially
>longer time than it would if I were sighted because the alternative
>techniques I use often are slower than using sight.  (readers, test
>scribes, needing to feel all the details on braille graphs vs. being
>able to look at it all at once and glance at what I need later, etc.)
>School is preparing me to work a regular job-since my alternative
>techniques require lots of time work isn't really practical for me
>while I go through school.  I suspect that's why you applied for SSI
>in the first place.  The system is not designed to take people who are
>perfectly capable of working and make them in to couch potatoes-I
>think that's an unfortunate side effect of the whole deal.  Rest
>assured, once I get a full-time job, I'll cut the chord with SSI.
>Permanently.
>  I can only speak for me, and how I see the system.  I don't think it
>was ever intended to be a handout or something to keep able people
>from working.  It's unfortunate many people abuse the system and, I'll
>admit, it makes me angry!  But do you have a better idea to make sure
>we're able to get the education we need to work?  And anyway (I'm not
>talking about you, I don't know your situation), if someone's able to
>work a full-time job, what business do they have getting SSI?  Best,
>Kirt
>
>On 6/26/11, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Wait, are you saying the system is designed for us to sit on our
>> collective duffs and mooch off of others while we piddle around and
>> do nothing?  Does that seem like an appropriate system to you?
>>
>> You know how most people get through school?  They work.  Why should
>> we be different?  Yes, I know we ARE, but why should we accept that?
>> We cannot work through school because the very act of going through
>> school takes us longer.  Why?  Because we haven’t got the skills to
>> keep up.  Why?  Because the same system that is giving us our little
>> handout (for which I’m told we should be grateful) has actively
>> interfered in our efforts to be and do better than that.
>>
>> As for suing, how, whom, and why?  My benefits were never actually
>> stopped, only threatened.  Just enough to keep me jumping for my
>> government slavemasters.  I was entitled to, had, and won each of my
>> appeals, so the system worked as designed.
>>
>> I’m just no longer willing to be a slave.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 01:18:23PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>Joseph,
>>>  You make great points, and I really do feel for you.  That's
>>>aweful...like, maybe get a social security lawyer kind of aweful.
>>>  All I'm saying is, the way the system is intended to work (and the
>>>way it works for a lot of us), SSI is necessary income.  I'm using it
>>>so I don't starve through school; the minute I get out and find a
>>>full-time job, I'm saying goodbye to my SSI for good.  That's how it
>>>should be-use it to get yourself able to work then cut the cord.  I
>>>know lots of people abuse it, I know it's poorly managed, and I know
>>>you're getting screwed by the system.  But the way I see it, it's
>>>designed to be a boost up to equality, not a handout.  Of course,
>>>everyone doesn't use it that way.
>>>  In any case, best of luck.  I hope things work out for you.  For
>>>what it's worth, I'm sorry you're going through all this crap.
>>>  Best wishes,
>>>Kirt
>>>
>>>On 6/25/11, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Kirt,
>>>>
>>>> Social Security and SSI are still a handout, and they come with
>>>> strings attached that make getting off of them pretty difficult.
>>>> Especially if you live in subsidized housing, collect food stamps,
>>>> receive utility subsidies, etc.  If you do and you go and find
>>>> yourself a job that doesn’t pay enough, you will have a sudden net
>>>> reduction in your income that already doesn’t pay the bills.
>>>>
>>>> I’ve decided I’m getting off this roller coaster even if it makes me
>>>> homeless in the process, because I’m sick and tired of living in fear
>>>> that they might take away my benefits!  I’ve gotten three letters to
>>>> that effect in the past two years, in the midst of cancer treatment
>>>> for two of them, all with the customary 30 day appeal I’d better take
>>>> advantage of if I want to be able to survive another month!
>>>>
>>>> I’m tired of getting paid to NOT work.  I’m tired of living in places
>>>> where the government intrudes upon my home three times a year to make
>>>> sure my landlord isn’t complete pond scum (but allowing them to be
>>>> one level removed from pond scum!)  I’m tired of being told that if I
>>>> start working, my rent will suddenly be 120% of what anybody in their
>>>> right might would ever pay for this dump.  And I’m tired of being
>>>> told that they’re sorry, but I just don’t qualify for the work
>>>> incentives, or the better medical coverage, or the exemptions that
>>>> might possibly allow me to save a few hundred dollars with which to
>>>> actually get out of here!
>>>>
>>>> Your not-a-handout Social Security and SSI have made slaves of far
>>>> too many of us.  Perfectly able to work, but afraid to try for fear
>>>> that we’ll lose what little we’ve got.  We are trapped in a prison of
>>>> learned helplessness, and the only way out is to see these things—all
>>>> of them—for what they are: Government handouts designed to keep us
>>>> docile, afraid, and living in poverty.
>>>>
>>>> I’m done playing that game.
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 09:13:21AM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>Carley,
>>>>>  First off, I've done a bit of really light research and I was way
>>>>>liberal about what I thought the cost of this would be.  It's probably
>>>>>going to be in the neighborhood of $100 million, so I was way off.
>>>>>That'll teach me not to make outlandish statements with no proof.
>>>>>  But still, the point I made in my last message stands.  Of course I
>>>>>don't want the government to write out a check for all of us-I was
>>>>>trying to point out that trying to make all the cash out there more
>>>>>"blind-friendly" is not necessary.  Just like we don't need government
>>>>>handouts (I'm not counting SSI as a government handout because that's
>>>>>money lots of us genuinely need), we don't need the government
>>>>>spending $100 million redesigning currency we can already use with
>>>>>pretty much no problem.  Honestly, if you think you can't afford an
>>>>>iBill, there's probably something you're buying with your $680 a month
>>>>>that you really don't need.
>>>>>  Just a thought,
>>>>>Kirt
>>>>
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