[nabs-l] Google Calendar

Thu Mar 17 18:37:52 UTC 2011

Log in to gmail and click the calendar link.
On Mar 17, 2011, at 2:26 PM, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> How do you get to and use google calendar?  Do you do that through your gmail account?  I also have a gmail account.
> I'd like to see this google calendar to see what accessibility issues arise with jaws.
> So far I don't see specifics; what is accessible and what needs work on the calendar? Is it graphical? Does jaws not read labels and buttons? I wonder the problems.
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:08 PM
> To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google Calendar
> 
> Hi Joe and all,
> Is it possible to keep track of other people's calendars using the
> Outlook sync work-around you describe? If not, this still can present
> an accessibility barrier in some workplace situations and perhaps
> academic situations as well. For example, my lab uses Google Calendar
> to coordinate all of our schedules and come up with times when
> everyone can meet, etc. I could see this presenting a real problem for
> university faculty at schools where Google Calendar is used as the
> primary means of scheduling meetings, work assignments, etc.
> 
> Arielle
> 
> On 3/17/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Arielle,
>> 
>> I don't know that Google Calendar is the most accessible feature on the web
>> interface.  There's a big difference anyway between the accessibility of
>> GMail versus Google Calendar.  I personally use Google Sync to link my
>> Outlook Calendar with Google Calendar, which in turn automatically syncs
>> with my Windows phone and iPod Touch.  So far, I must say the iPod Touch has
>> the most kick ass way of navigating a calendar I've ever seen.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Arielle Silverman [mailto:nabs.president at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:53 AM
>> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] confused - regarding - NFB Google Apps complaint
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Does Google Calendar have a basic html option? If not, how do you
>> access it with JAWS?
>> 
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 3/17/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Yes, I think that's how cases normally work, since it's not feasible for a
>>> plaintiff to go after every single offender engaged in the same
>> wrongdoing.
>>> Even if the case does not set a precedent, the publicity may motivate
>> other
>>> universities to evaluate Google Apps and maybe even encourage them to work
>>> with Google to make the apps more accessible.  There are multiple benefits
>>> that come from filing complaints.  The complaint itself is only the
>>> foundation for the type of change that may evolve.
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> 
>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>> Of Kirt Manwaring
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 10:35 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] confused - regarding - NFB Google Apps complaint
>>> 
>>> Joe,
>>>  All I'm saying is this doesn't really solve the potential problem.
>>> The press release mentions...what, 3 or 4 universities that are being
>>> investigated.  I think probably a lot more than that use google aps,
>>> and that number's certainly growing.  So is this just a way to bring
>>> limited results and hopefully set a future precident?  Cause, four out
>>> of hundreds of universities (maybe not that many are using google aps,
>>> but four out of a lot who do), seems like a comparatively small
>>> affair.
>>>  Best,
>>> Kirt
>>> 
>>> On 3/17/11, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joe,
>>>> Maybe you are right. I don't know if you know anything else about the
>>>> complaint other than what the press release tells us, but I don't. The
>>> press
>>>> release specifically says that Google apps doesn't let us use email and
>>>> calendars, and that's not true. And if the NFB is going to complain about
>>>> those to points, then they are wrong. If this whole argument comes from
>>> the
>>>> fact that whoever prepared the press release didn't really know what the
>>>> complaint was about and ended up providing readers with inaccurate
>>>> information about it, then I don't really know what else to say...
>>>> 
>>>> IC
>>>> On Mar 17, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Joe Orozco wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Ignasi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The complaint is not centered around the basic Google features: GMail,
>>>>> Calendar, and Contacts.  You can't possibly think that schools are
>>>>> leveraging the platform merely to give their students a different way to
>>>>> communicate and keep track of their schedules?  It's about Docs, and
>>> Sites
>>>>> and the other wide range of Google products that enrich the educational
>>>>> field and provide the incentive for universities to completely switch
>> out
>>>>> their platforms.  The press release could have been written a little
>>>>> better
>>>>> to reflect this point, but understand there is more at consideration
>> than
>>>>> the basic features people use outside of schools and businesses.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't know that it's true the NFB has money to spare.  We need to
>>>>> understand that despite our critics' position that we sue everyone under
>>>>> the
>>>>> sun, the leadership really does prioritize and act on cases with the
>> most
>>>>> immediate impact.  I'm glad that education is important enough to the
>>>>> leadership for it to continue pursuing avenues to improve the quality of
>>>>> studies for students.  For all their grumblings on the ACB student list,
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> not sure the ACB can claim the same high priority.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>> 
>>>>> If an organization wants to get attention for themselves, they don't
>>>>> attract
>>>>> it by filing complaints against corporations, or in this case,
>>> educational
>>>>> institutions.  In some rare cases negative publicity can be hammered
>> into
>>>>> something ultimately beneficial, but for a nonprofit with limited funds,
>>>>> it
>>>>> files complaints because change needs to happen and not because it hopes
>>>>> its
>>>>> opposition will suddenly change heart and applaud the NFB's efforts.
>>>>> There
>>>>> are enough projects to draw positive attention to its activities.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anyway, just my thoughts,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Joe
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>>> sleeves,
>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Ignasi Cambra
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 6:37 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] confused - regarding - NFB Google Apps complaint
>>>>> 
>>>>> Again, there is no way you can say that gmail is not accessible, even
>> for
>>>>> opening attachments. The default version of the site which comes up when
>>>>> you
>>>>> log in might not be perfectly accessible with all screen readers, but
>>>>> there
>>>>> is a link called "basic html" which you can use to switch to a different
>>>>> version of the site, which does work very well with screen readers. You
>>>>> can
>>>>> navigate it by headers and attachments open just fine.
>>>>> If you don't like that, you can always get emails from an email client
>>>>> such
>>>>> as Outlook, Thunderbird, Apple Mail...whatever you like!
>>>>> The situation with google calendar is pretty much the same. The only big
>>>>> problem comes with Google docs. To the best of my knowledge, that's
>>>>> actually
>>>>> not accessible as of today. Some office suites will allow you to
>> retrieve
>>>>> Google docs documents, work on them and save them. But the Google docs
>>>>> site
>>>>> itself is not accessible.
>>>>> On Mar 17, 2011, at 12:27 AM, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> My school, nova, uses the google email application too.  What I hate is
>>>>> trying to open attachments.  They are so hard to find among the links
>> and
>>>>> text!
>>>>>> You have to find the attachment link to click and download. Quite
>>>>> frustrating.
>>>>>> Yes colleges do have a choice and unfortunately when choosing software
>>> to
>>>>> communicate in and out of class, accessibility is not considered.
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:01 AM
>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] confused - regarding - NFB Google Apps complaint
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am by no means an expert in the field of technology, but I do know
>>> from
>>>>> my own personal experience that the Google applications used by some
>>>>> colleges and universities are not accessible. I know this to be true
>>>>> because
>>>>> my college uses the Google email application for its email system, and
>>>>> somehow it is set up differently than a regular Google account, and as
>>>>> such
>>>>> is not accessible. I would imagine that the national office is choosing
>>> to
>>>>> go after the colleges and not google because the colleges have a choice
>>> in
>>>>> what they choose to use when it comes to disseminating electronic
>>>>> information. I believe it would be the responsibility of the college or
>>>>> university to ensure that the software programs they use are accessible
>>> to
>>>>> all students.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just my thoughts for whatever they may be worth.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:31:25 -0600
>>>>>>> From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] confused - regarding - NFB Google Apps complaint
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The only reason for doing this that makes sense to me is the NFB not
>>>>>>> wanting to get in to a long, drawn-out court battle with google. I
>>>>>>> know the Federation has money to spare...but going up against the
>>>>>>> likes of google and winning would take a lot of money and, probably,
>>>>>>> litigation. So maybe they see this as a way to bring about some
>>>>>>> limited improvements and set a precident for the future? Sounds like
>>>>>>> a stretch, but it's all I can think of.
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 3/16/11, Laura Glowacki <orangebutterfly87 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I agree. Google has done a lot in the past with seeking feedback
>>>>>>>> from users on accessibility. Obviously there are still things
>>>>>>>> that need to be worked on, but has anyone actually approached
>>>>>>>> google and offer to help with that process?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <jorgeapaez at mac.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:39 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] confused - regarding - NFB Google Apps
>>>>>>>> complaint
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I don't know,
>>>>>>>> this just sounds odd considering how much talk there has been on
>>>>>>>> this very list about
>>>>>>>> precisely how accessible Google Apps are.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Seems like a weird move by the leadership if they're trying to
>>>>>>>> get attention.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> And get attention for what exactly?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mar 16, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I think it's true that Google could do a lot more in terms of
>>>>>>>>> accessibility, especially with Google Docs. But their email and
>>>>>>>>> calendar services are perfectly accessible. Gmail even has an
>>>>>>>>> HTML only version which is as simple as it gets. Also, the good
>>>>>>>>> thing about Google apps is that you can use them through other
>>>>>>>>> software. I use Gmail and Google calendar everyday with my Mac,
>>>>>>>>> but I never actually open the Google site for that. I get my
>>>>>>>>> emails through Imap and use iCal to look at the calendar and
>>>>>>>>> add events etc.
>>>>>>>>> In other words, I think this complaint should have formulated
>>>>>>>>> differently. There are lots of things that can and should be
>>>>>>>>> fixed, but saying that these services are not usable by blind
>>>>>>>>> people in those universities is lying. My university uses
>>>>>>>>> Google apps, and I'm not complaining about it because I can use
>>>>>>>>> it...!!
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 16, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Precisely my thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Where's the NFB suing Freedom Scientific?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Or Google?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Gosh knows Google could do way more then any school to fix
>>>>>>>>>> that problem.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 16, 2011, at 4:31 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Google Aps are accessible with screen readers that have
>>>>>>>>>>> innovated and
>>>>>>>>>>> are able to use google apps such as NVDA for example. JFW
>>>>>>>>>>> works, but
>>>>>>>>>>> very limitedly. What happened to the screen reader companies
>>>>>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>>>>> their jobs and making things accessible instead of the NFB
>>>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>>>> sue-happy *gain* and complaining because screen reader
>>>>>>>>>>> companies are
>>>>>>>>>>> falling behind? I don't think that Google has _ever refused
>>>>>>>>>>> to work on
>>>>>>>>>>> accessibility for anyone. Just saying ...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 16/03/2011, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello fellow NABS members.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure most of you have heard about the complaint National
>>>>>>>>>>>> filed regarding
>>>>>>>>>>>> universities using Google Apps.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From what I understand, GMail is completely accessible but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest isn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>> (I've never used anything more then Gmail in the apps as of
>>>>>>>>>>>> yet),
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> but so far, I haven't seen many people use this.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are we complaining because the University is mandating that
>>>>>>>>>>>> everything be
>>>>>>>>>>>> done threw Google Apps (part of which is unaccessible) or
>>>>>>>>>>>> are we complaining
>>>>>>>>>>>> for simply using inaccessible web applications that could
>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially pose
>>>>>>>>>>>> problems?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer M. Jaber
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
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>>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
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>>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> windows XP
>>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
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>> --
>> Arielle Silverman
>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>> Email:
>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>> Website:
>> www.nabslink.org
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
> 
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