[nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..

humberto humbertoa5369 at netzero.net
Tue May 3 04:46:10 UTC 2011


Let's change the subject line now, shall we? * smile *

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Mon, 2 May 2011 21:35:18 -0700
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..

>Hey Kirt:

>The Mavericks blitzed the Trailblazers so NBA is of no use to me 
anymore
>this year. (grin)

>Now if the Washington Capitals can knock off the Tampa Bay 
Lightning in the
>NHL so we can in the end have a Capitals Canuks Stanley Cup Final 
.. Now
>there's something to care about! :-)

>Mike


>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Kirt Manwaring
>Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:18 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..

>Mike,
>  Very, very well said.  Except for the bit about no ultimate 
meaning except
>for what we make of life (which, really, is kind of beyond the 
scope of this
>meaningless conversation), I totally agree with you.
>Blindness is sometimes a pain in the ass, sometimes it really 
makes no
>difference to life one way or another.  I guess the only benefit 
blindness
>has ever given me is the opportunity to meet some friends who I 
would
>otherwise never have known.  Other than that, if I'm weighing 
pros and cons
>in my own life, blindness isn't really much of a good thing or a 
bad
>thing...it's just kind of there.  It's certainly not a good 
thing, I don't
>think-but it's not really that bad either.
>At any rate, there's plenty more important things to worry 
about...like the
>NBA playoffs!  :)  Go Grizleys!  (I kind of adopted them as my 
team after
>they upset the spurs-can you say bandwagon fan?)
>  Warmest regards,
>Kirt

>On 5/2/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> Chris:

>> I agree with you.  I did not, in fact, say that diversity could 
be
>> negative although I dare say that quite a number of high school 
kids
>> trying to "fit in" might think so.  In fact, to my way of 
thinking,
>> physical diversity is neutral.  Intellectual diversity is 
certainly an
>> advantage.  As for negative diversity -- let's see -- how about 
the
>> presence of diseases such as sickle-cell anemia?  After all, the 
genes
>> that code for this disease also confer some immunity to malaria.  
Yet
>> few would disagree with those who seek to cure or eliminate this 
disease.

>> Now I'm not saying blindness is a disease.  It is a physical 
condition
>> resulting from the lack of one sense -- vision.  That's far from 
being
>> a disease in my book.  But I don't believe blindness confers any
>> advantages, either.

>> Perhaps a sentence or two about my view of life might help you 
to
>> understand where I'm coming from -- it's a view that Jedi does 
not
>> subscribe to.  Long live diversity, eh?  Anyway, I am agnostic.
>> Therefore, I do not believe there is any meaning in life apart 
from
>> the meaning we give it by our own actions.  Nor do I believe 
there is
>> an ultimate purpose to existence except insofar as we overlay it 
with a
>gloss of meaning of our own making.
>> Therefore, questions such as "why am I here?  Why was I blind?  
What
>> purpose does my blindness serve in the larger scheme of things?" 
have
>> no answers and, in fact, make no sense to even ask.  It's sort 
of like
>> in quantum mechanics where it makes no sense to ask whether an
>> electron is a wave or a particle.

>> Anyway, with that world view in mind and bearing in mind that I
>> subscribe to the NFB notion that with training and opportunity,
>> blindness can be reduced to the level of a physical 
inconvenience and
>> that we, the blind, are simply normal people who cannot see, I 
do not
>> see that having blind people around confers some special 
blessing on
>> society.  Blindness is just that -- the lack of sight.  I do not
>> believe that it renders us privy to special insights, miraculous
>> talents or capacities or special cultural predilections.  I am
>> therefore not committed to its preservation.  Neither, on the 
other
>> hand, am I committed to its eradication.  If it happens, so be 
it.  If
>> it does not, so be it.  I'm not going to worry overly-much about 
it
>> since it won't happen in my lifetime and there will be 
innumerable
>circumstances I cannot foresee so cannot make a binding judgment 
upon.

>> Bottom line: I don't see how we can say that blindness is just 
the
>> lack of eyesight while at the same time believing it confers 
special
>> virtues or valuable traits for society.  I truly do not believe
>> blindness to be all that much of a muchness.  Sometimes it's a 
pain;
>sometimes it's just there.
>> In my experience, it's never the catalyst for wisdom or 
enlightenment.

>> Now that I've written this to death, on to the next issue! 
(smile)

>> Mike


>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 12:55 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..

>> Being Devil's advocate, what negativity does diversity have?
>> Diversity, by definition, isn't good nor bad, but just 
different.
>> So, what is the negative impact of diversity on...  who, 
society?

>> Chris Nusbaum

>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities 
motto)

>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:25:10 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..

>> That presumes that diversity always equals benefit.  You and I 
are
>> going to have to differ on this one.

>> Mike


>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi
>> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 6:45 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..

>> I say that disability is a form of diversity, so I wouldn't want 
to
>> erase it.

>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi

>> Original message:
>>  Hello all,

>>  This is an interesting discussion, so I thought I'd pop in for 
a minute.

>>  This question goes, at the root of it, to how you view 
disability.
>> If  you view it as an aspect that creates diversity, then 
erasing it
>> would  be like erasing races or different languages.  If you 
view
>> disability  as a disease, then logically the first response 
would be to
>want to cure it.

>>  What do you guys think?

>>  Briley
>>  On Apr 27, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Jorge Paez wrote:

>>  Arielle:
>>  I think blindness does play a roll--in that it is just one of 
many
>> things that make up an individual, and in a world where genetics
>> would be preprogramed, it just be too perfect.
>>  It'd just bee too flawless--too artificial.
>>  I'm sure some people would want it--but a world in which 
blindness
>> and other disabilities are completely eradicated would just be 
too
>> artificial, almost like we literally managed to create our own 
world in a
>way.

>>  Worse, it would make it a whole lot worse for any blind who 
were born
>> cause then everyone would consider them a scientific failure so 
to speak.
>>  Of course,
>>  I'm hypothetically talking about a very cold  world in which 
science
>> would create people which I hope would never happen but its a 
good
>> talking  point anyway.

>>  Jorge


>>  On Apr 27, 2011, at 12:08 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote:

>>  Hi all,

>>  We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some 
of our
>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it 
would be
>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind.  This made 
me
>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question:
>>  Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if
>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic 
engineering
>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness?
>>  The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers,
>> eradication of blindness is a real goal.  But does the presence 
of
>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or 
the  world
>as a whole?

>>  Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in
>> society who read and travel using different techniques than the  
rest.
>> These specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has  
to be
>> adapted to their use and negative public attitudes prevent  this
>> minority of people who do things differently from having full  
access
>> to societal goods and opportunities.  So would it be cheaper  
and less
>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual  
techniques to
>accomplish life tasks?
>>  On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people 
who
>> use different senses to do things in society is advantageous.
>>  Technology is forced to innovate to become usable by those who 
don't
>> have vision as well as those who do.  And conceivably, if a 
darkness
>> plague struck the planet, it would be better for the species if 
some
>> of its members could fully function without light.

>>  What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get 
rid
>> of blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social 
function?
>>  There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something 
that,
>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday.

>>  Arielle

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