[nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness

Jedi loneblindjedi at samobile.net
Fri May 6 17:48:08 UTC 2011 

*shrug* *nod* *giggle*

Respectfully Submitted


Original message:
> Jedi:

> That's a great insight. What's worse is that the reasoning you outline 
> below is self-reinforcing. If we are helpless and witless, why should 
> we be listened to -- or so the sighted may reason.

> Mike Freeman
> sent from my iPhone


> On May 6, 2011, at 10:14, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:

>> You bring up an interesting point, Chris.

>> I think the reason why the sighted tend to choose unwisely about the 
>> technologies they create for our benefit is because they've got us as a 
>> population all wrong. Most of the technologies the sighted invent tend 
>> to substitute for something we lack: eyesight. Or, they try to help us 
>> with some task they think would be difficult for them if they were 
>> blind such as matching our clothes or finding a room in a complex. The 
>> funny part is, for the stuff we really need help with like accessing 
>> touch screens or web sites, I think the sighted assumption is that we 
>> have someone conveniently available to help us do these things. It is 
>> true that many of us use readers, and there's nothing wrong with that 
>> at all as it is a legitimate, and often useful/necessary, alternative 
>> technique. However, I think reader usage patterns are changing because 
>> of technologies that allow us to get a lot more done more quickly on 
>> our own. I've noticed that my reader usage patterns have change dramatically o
>  ver the past five to ten years.

>> But maybe in some ironic kind of way, the thinking behind the 
>> technologies the sighted choose or don't choose to make accessible kind 
>> of make sense. They figure we're so helpless that we need all kinds of 
>> weird gadgets, but of course we aren't out there in the world to use 
>> the normal gadgets they're using. *shrug*

>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
>> Original message:
>>> I agree! I was just thinking, maybe you could check in online for
>>> airlines...  if their site is accessible.  But if not, most blind
>>> people have a reader, right? Maybe you can ask your reader (if
>>> you trust them) to read you the site (if it's not accessible) and
>>> you can tell the reader what you want to click on.

>>> Chris Nusbaum

>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)

>>> --- Sent from my Braille-Note

>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Wed, 04 May 2011 12:26:42 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness

>>> Kirt,

>>> I think the bottom line for me is this: can I do what I need to
>>> do in a
>>> manner that's convenient for me and everyone else around me? Goes
>>> back
>>> to that "Nature of Independence," doesn't it? You're right that
>>> not
>>> every technology is going to be accessible to us and that we will
>>> have
>>> to make work-arounds.  No problem.  We could say, going back to
>>> our "If
>>> the world went sighted" discussion, that if nothing else,
>>> blindness
>>> does encourage the development of problem-solving skills.  Most
>>> of the
>>> time, getting help, if that's what's needed, is perfectly
>>> acceptable
>>> and sometimes easier or more convenient.  For example, I
>>> personally find
>>> that I'd rather be checked in by a human than the touchscreens
>>> because
>>> it seems to me that touchscreen kiosks are kind of complicated
>>> (not the
>>> technology, but the systems they run on) when it may be just as
>>> easy to
>>> have an agent (or easier) check me in.  And for now, that's fine
>>> given
>>> that many airlines still have agents that can do that for anyone.
>>> But
>>> for those airlines that don't even have agents, that's a problem.
>>> Sure,
>>> you could work around it by checking in online (and that's
>>> probably not
>>> a bad idea), but you may have instances where that is not
>>> possible for
>>> whatever reason.  So it really is inconvenient to the self and
>>> others to
>>> track down the help you need and then find a way to get rid of
>>> them
>>> politely so you can go about your business and let them get back
>>> to
>>> theirs.  the same issue goes for grocery lines.

>>> Here's where I draw the line though.  I, generally speaking,
>>> refuse to
>>> allow anyone to help me at an ATM unless I absolutely know they
>>> can be
>>> trusted.  There are few people I would entrust with this task,
>>> and none
>>> of them are members of my family.  I have had a bad experience
>>> with
>>> someone who helped me: my sister stole money from my bank account
>>> when
>>> she helped me with an aTM.  Long story short, i became very wary
>>> of
>>> assistance in this matter.  So for things like that, I believe
>>> it's a
>>> right of privacy that's at stake here, and everyone ought to have
>>> to
>>> have that right whether they belong to the majority or not.  Same
>>> with
>>> voting.  I personally prefer the privacy that comes with an
>>> accessible
>>> vote than entrusting my vote to someone who may or may not agree
>>> with
>>> me acting as a reader.  If everyone else in the country has the
>>> right to
>>> a private vote, so do I.  Now, if I choose to have someone read
>>> my
>>> ballot to me anyway, that's my choice, but I still have that
>>> right to
>>> privacy thanks to the HAVA.

>>> Does any of this make sense?

>>> Respectfully,
>>> Jedi

>>> Original message:
>>> To all,
>>>   Here's my take...and, because I enjoy being an argumentative
>>> pain in
>>> the neck, I'm going to enjoy this.  :)  But before I start, I
>>> want to
>>> make it perfectly clear that I'm absolutely for the Technology
>>> Bill of
>>> Rights, making new technology accessible ought to be a legal
>>> right,
>>> and we are at a disadvantage when technology, like the touch
>>> screens
>>> Ashley mentioned are being put in store checkout lines, is used.
>>>   But we need to remember we are a minority and the majority of
>>> the
>>> population shouldn't bend over backwards to accomodate us.
>>> While
>>> having all new technology come to us perfectly accessible is a
>>> laudable goal, it's probably never going to totally be realized.
>>> Should we have the right?  Absolutely.  Will we ever have it
>>> totally?
>>> Probably not...even with the Technology bill of rights, this
>>> dream of
>>> Universal Design will probably never be totally realized.  That
>>> doesn't mean we don't work towards it-it just means we need to
>>> learn
>>> how to live in a world where there are inconveniences we have to
>>> deal
>>> with.  We may have to stand in lines instead of using the
>>> independent
>>> self checkout-deal with it.  We may need to get a reader if our
>>> textbooks aren't accessible-too bad.  We may need to get
>>> assistance
>>> using keosks in the airport-I'm terribly sorry, that's life.  e
>>> maybe
>>> might even have to go with a trusted family member or friend
>>> when
>>> using an ATM...what a terrible tragedy!  I can't believe we're
>>> so
>>> mistreated, abused, ignored, neglected, forgotten, and treated
>>> like
>>> crap by the rest of the evil sighted world that doesn't even
>>> give a
>>> damn about us!  Life is aweful!  This new technology isn't
>>> accessible-woe is me, we're
>>> dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed!  Noone
>>> even
>>> cares about us!  This is a terrible, terrible, no-good world we
>>> live
>>> in, because we need to get people to help us use touch
>>> screens...whatever are we going to do?
>>>   Now of course that was an exhageration, and I certainly want
>>> technology to be accessible.  But rather than spend so much time
>>> complaining about it, let's do our best to get around the
>>> inaccessibility and live our lives!  I'm all for pushing to make
>>> this
>>> new technology independently usable...but it's probably never
>>> going to
>>> totally happen, deal with it.  There will always be
>>> inconveniences and
>>> annoyences associated with being blind-get used to it.  The
>>> world will
>>> never perfectly cater to our every whim, get over it.
>>>   Warmest regards,
>>> Kirt

>>> On 5/2/11, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net> wrote:
>>> Sorry, but your message came out blank: Subject: Re: [Nabs-l]
>>> New
>>> Technology And blindness, sent on Sonday may 1, 2011 at 9:33 AM

>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sun, 01 May 2011 09:33:12 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness


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