[nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness

Jim jp100 at earthlink.net
Fri May 6 17:49:03 UTC 2011 

I agree.  That was very well put!


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Mike Freeman
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 10:42 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness

Jedi:

That's a great insight. What's worse is that the reasoning you outline below
is self-reinforcing. If we are helpless and witless, why should we be
listened to -- or so the sighted may reason.

Mike Freeman
sent from my iPhone


On May 6, 2011, at 10:14, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:

> You bring up an interesting point, Chris.
> 
> I think the reason why the sighted tend to choose unwisely about the
technologies they create for our benefit is because they've got us as a
population all wrong. Most of the technologies the sighted invent tend to
substitute for something we lack: eyesight. Or, they try to help us with
some task they think would be difficult for them if they were blind such as
matching our clothes or finding a room in a complex. The funny part is, for
the stuff we really need help with like accessing touch screens or web
sites, I think the sighted assumption is that we have someone conveniently
available to help us do these things. It is true that many of us use
readers, and there's nothing wrong with that at all as it is a legitimate,
and often useful/necessary, alternative technique. However, I think reader
usage patterns are changing because of technologies that allow us to get a
lot more done more quickly on our own. I've noticed that my reader usage
patterns have change dramatically over the past five to ten years.
> 
> But maybe in some ironic kind of way, the thinking behind the 
> technologies the sighted choose or don't choose to make accessible 
> kind of make sense. They figure we're so helpless that we need all 
> kinds of weird gadgets, but of course we aren't out there in the world 
> to use the normal gadgets they're using. *shrug*
> 
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
> Original message:
>> I agree! I was just thinking, maybe you could check in online for 
>> airlines...  if their site is accessible.  But if not, most blind 
>> people have a reader, right? Maybe you can ask your reader (if you 
>> trust them) to read you the site (if it's not accessible) and you can 
>> tell the reader what you want to click on.
> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
> 
>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> 
>> --- Sent from my Braille-Note
> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 04 May 2011 12:26:42 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness
> 
>> Kirt,
> 
>> I think the bottom line for me is this: can I do what I need to do in 
>> a manner that's convenient for me and everyone else around me? Goes 
>> back to that "Nature of Independence," doesn't it? You're right that 
>> not every technology is going to be accessible to us and that we will 
>> have to make work-arounds.  No problem.  We could say, going back to 
>> our "If the world went sighted" discussion, that if nothing else, 
>> blindness does encourage the development of problem-solving skills.  
>> Most of the time, getting help, if that's what's needed, is perfectly 
>> acceptable and sometimes easier or more convenient.  For example, I 
>> personally find that I'd rather be checked in by a human than the 
>> touchscreens because it seems to me that touchscreen kiosks are kind 
>> of complicated (not the technology, but the systems they run on) when 
>> it may be just as easy to have an agent (or easier) check me in.  And 
>> for now, that's fine given that many airlines still have agents that 
>> can do that for anyone.
>> But
>> for those airlines that don't even have agents, that's a problem.
>> Sure,
>> you could work around it by checking in online (and that's probably 
>> not a bad idea), but you may have instances where that is not 
>> possible for whatever reason.  So it really is inconvenient to the 
>> self and others to track down the help you need and then find a way 
>> to get rid of them politely so you can go about your business and let 
>> them get back to theirs.  the same issue goes for grocery lines.
> 
>> Here's where I draw the line though.  I, generally speaking, refuse 
>> to allow anyone to help me at an ATM unless I absolutely know they 
>> can be trusted.  There are few people I would entrust with this task, 
>> and none of them are members of my family.  I have had a bad 
>> experience with someone who helped me: my sister stole money from my 
>> bank account when she helped me with an aTM.  Long story short, i 
>> became very wary of assistance in this matter.  So for things like 
>> that, I believe it's a right of privacy that's at stake here, and 
>> everyone ought to have to have that right whether they belong to the 
>> majority or not.  Same with voting.  I personally prefer the privacy 
>> that comes with an accessible vote than entrusting my vote to someone 
>> who may or may not agree with me acting as a reader.  If everyone 
>> else in the country has the right to a private vote, so do I.  Now, 
>> if I choose to have someone read my ballot to me anyway, that's my 
>> choice, but I still have that right to privacy thanks to the HAVA.
> 
>> Does any of this make sense?
> 
>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
> 
>> Original message:
>> To all,
>>   Here's my take...and, because I enjoy being an argumentative pain 
>> in the neck, I'm going to enjoy this.  :)  But before I start, I want 
>> to make it perfectly clear that I'm absolutely for the Technology 
>> Bill of Rights, making new technology accessible ought to be a legal 
>> right, and we are at a disadvantage when technology, like the touch 
>> screens Ashley mentioned are being put in store checkout lines, is 
>> used.
>>   But we need to remember we are a minority and the majority of the 
>> population shouldn't bend over backwards to accomodate us.
>> While
>> having all new technology come to us perfectly accessible is a 
>> laudable goal, it's probably never going to totally be realized.
>> Should we have the right?  Absolutely.  Will we ever have it totally?
>> Probably not...even with the Technology bill of rights, this dream of 
>> Universal Design will probably never be totally realized.  That 
>> doesn't mean we don't work towards it-it just means we need to learn 
>> how to live in a world where there are inconveniences we have to deal 
>> with.  We may have to stand in lines instead of using the independent 
>> self checkout-deal with it.  We may need to get a reader if our 
>> textbooks aren't accessible-too bad.  We may need to get assistance 
>> using keosks in the airport-I'm terribly sorry, that's life.  e maybe 
>> might even have to go with a trusted family member or friend when 
>> using an ATM...what a terrible tragedy!  I can't believe we're so 
>> mistreated, abused, ignored, neglected, forgotten, and treated like 
>> crap by the rest of the evil sighted world that doesn't even give a 
>> damn about us!  Life is aweful!  This new technology isn't 
>> accessible-woe is me, we're 
>> dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed!  Noone even 
>> cares about us!  This is a terrible, terrible, no-good world we live 
>> in, because we need to get people to help us use touch 
>> screens...whatever are we going to do?
>>   Now of course that was an exhageration, and I certainly want 
>> technology to be accessible.  But rather than spend so much time 
>> complaining about it, let's do our best to get around the 
>> inaccessibility and live our lives!  I'm all for pushing to make this 
>> new technology independently usable...but it's probably never going 
>> to totally happen, deal with it.  There will always be inconveniences 
>> and annoyences associated with being blind-get used to it.  The world 
>> will never perfectly cater to our every whim, get over it.
>>   Warmest regards,
>> Kirt
> 
>> On 5/2/11, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net> wrote:
>> Sorry, but your message came out blank: Subject: Re: [Nabs-l] New 
>> Technology And blindness, sent on Sonday may 1, 2011 at 9:33 AM
> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
>> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sun, 01 May 2011 09:33:12 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness
> 
> 
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