[nabs-l] An Article about another Student at Myy College

Mon May 9 16:24:59 UTC 2011

Jedi,
  I just realized, if you're being all gramatical and stuff, my last
post totally contradicts itself.  (and has so many punctuation and
spelling problems...but let's not go there, ok?  :))  First I said
it's silly for people to think we're "nominally not equal from a
utilitarian standpoint" and, at the end of my messafge, I said
training makes inequalities "nominal rather than debilitating."  I
shouldn't have said "nominally not equal from a Utilitarian
standpoint"-I should've said "not equal from a Utilitarian
standpoint."  In any case, I think training totally allows any blind
person to get past nominal inequalities and do any average job as well
as the average person doing it.  That's what the NFB is all about, to
me-getting people the propper training, making sure the menial
inconveniences of blindness don't hold us back under the law, and
instilling us with the confidence that we are capable of making
blindness a small inconvenience (a small inequality from a Utilitarian
point of view) and doing whatever we choose as well as we choose to do
it.
  Hope that clarifies,
Kirt

On 5/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Jedi,
>   I never said we aren't equal after training-I think we are, for all
> intents and purposes.  That being said, blindness is still an
> inconvenience after any sort of training I saw a well-trained, totally
> respectable leader in the NFB, who I'm sure you know by name, take a
> big group in to a vending machine because he thought that's where the
> door was.  Of course he fixed his mistake, but it still set us back a
> minute or so.  And I can't really think of many better trained or more
> "equal" blind people than this gentleman, for whom I have the utmost
> respect.  Fact is, that's a mistake a sighted person probably wouldn't
> have made.  (or, at least, a sighted person would've figured out we
> were going the wrong way quite a while before we actually touched the
> drink machines with our canes)  So all I'm saying is that, even with
> propper training, there are still inconveniences associated with
> blindness.  I suppose you could say that makes us nominally not equal
> from a utilitarian standpoint but really, that's just silly.  As far
> as practical life is concerned, I think propper training levels the
> playing field and, in the context of equality meaning ability to work
> on the same level as the sighted world, makes us pretty much equal.
> Ionly say "pretty much" because there are still inconveniences that
> come with blindness, like the example I gave, which the general
> populus doesn't have to face.  I'm aware that each person, whether
> blind or sighted or smart or talented or whatever, needs training and
> opporutunity to succeed.  I'm also aware that each "equal" person has
> individual inconveniences and annoyances to get past-all I'm saying is
> the inconveniences and annoyances that come with blindness come in
> adition to whatever other personal inconveniences a blind person has,
> so, if we're being technical and stupid, that makes us not equal from
> the standpoint of productivity because we have more potential
> hinderences.  However, with the right training, I say those
> hinderences can't hold us back, even though they may be annoying and
> get in the way, training allows us to achieve on whatever level we
> want so, although we aren't "equal" from a technical standpoint, (and
> I'm still talking about productivity potential, not intrinsic value),
> those inequalities become nominal rather than debilitating.
>   Just my thoughts,
> Kirt
>
> On 5/9/11, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think a lot while doing dishes too. All those noises are very
>> stimulating,
>> aren't they? And if your soap smells good then it's even better :)!
>> On May 8, 2011, at 4:57 PM, Jedi wrote:
>>
>>> I tend to think a lot in the shower, too. Same with doing dishes.
>>>
>>> Respectfully Submitted
>>>
>>> Original message:
>>>> Or in the shower? Some of my best philosophical writing got its start
>>>> in
>>>> the
>>>> shower.
>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:06 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Article about another Student at Myy College
>>>
>>>> Lol, yes. Why is it that everything comes to you when you are in bed?
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 7:34 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Article about another Student at Myy College
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I'd say so. But I was thinking a while ago and realized that
>>>>> there
>>>>> are loads of cases where training is required in order to function,
>>>>> not
>>>>> just blindness. I can't remember what specific examples I thought of
>>>>> at
>>>>> the time, but I'm sure they'll hit me at some God-forsaken hour of the
>>>>> night.
>>>
>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>> JEdi
>>>
>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>> Jedi,
>>>>>>  Maybe it'll makemore sense if I say it this way.  I wasn't refering
>>>>>> to a person's intrinsic value.  I should've said we can't compete on
>>>>>> an equal level by default.  I'm going to invert a statement you've
>>>>>> heard a billion times.  Without propper training and opportunity,
>>>>>> blindness is a great deal more than a mere nuisence, and is, in fact,
>>>>>> a very significant limitation.  Would you agree?
>>>>>>  Best regards,
>>>>>> Kirt
>>>
>>>>>> On 5/7/11, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I think I know him too. We got our guide dogs at the same time back
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>> I remember Matt really loved baseball at the time, and he was always
>>>>>>> playing
>>>>>>> outside with his dad. I couldn't really speak English at the time
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> were very young, so I don't think we got to talk much. Actually,
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> were matching dogs with owners he got assigned my current guide dog,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> Matt walked too slow for the dog, or maybe it was the dog walking
>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>> fast
>>>>>>> :). But the fact is that I ended up with that dog, which is still
>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>> wonderfully! I was always walking a little faster than the dog they
>>>>>>> assigned
>>>>>>> me at first, so it worked out very well. I guess that's the
>>>>>>> advantage
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> instructors having a huge pool of trained dogs to choose from for
>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>> person.
>>>
>>>>>>> IC
>>>>>>> On May 6, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Jedi wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe Matt Cooper participated in Youth Slam 2007. I met him
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> quite impressed with him just because he was a down-to-earth kind
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> guy
>>>>>>>> who didn't toot his own horn to much. He was an all-around good
>>>>>>>> kid.
>>>
>>>>>>>> I really liked the title the school gives to its DSS office. It
>>>>>>>> makes
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> much sense and isn't euphemistic at all. "Office for Accessible
>>>>>>>> Education." I think I might suggest that to my school.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>>> Jedi
>>>
>>>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>>>> What do you guys think of this?
>>>>>>>>> http://www.stanforddaily.com/2011/05/04/seeing-it-through/
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