[nabs-l] About the future of NABS and the NFB

Jorge Paez computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com
Fri May 20 23:50:37 UTC 2011 

Kirt:
I'm kinda taking this at face value, since the NFB has never refered to any negotiations before suing anyone.
If however there is obvious negotiations before the law suit then that's a different story.

On May 20, 2011, at 7:33 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:

> Jorge,
>  Well said.  But we don't see all the dialogue and negotiations that
> go on behind the scenes before something goes to court.  Legal
> representation isn't cheap (even for the NFB), court proceedings are
> timely and cumbersome-noone wants to go to court if it can be avoided.
> NFB included.  Maybe we could do a better job publicizing the
> dialogue we go through with people before we're compelled to go to
> court.
>  I'm not saying I agree with every suit the Federation's been
> involved in of late.  But there are two sides to this issue and, more
> often than not, suits are made only after efforts to go through
> dialogue and mediation have proved fruitless.  I'm sure the Federation
> isn't an exception to that rule-perhaps someone more familiar with the
> inner workings of national NFB politics can shed some light here.
>  Warmly,
> Kirt
> P.S.  Jorge, I agree with most of your message-just the part about
> suits made me want to open my big mouth.  *grin*
> 
> On 5/20/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Kirt:
>> Agree completely.
>> I think (and I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular), that there has
>> been arrogance in some of our NFB members--weather in the leadership or out
>> of it, which has damaged the whole organization.
>> I'm saying its time we present ourselves in a calmer way.
>> I'm not saying not to fight for our rights.
>> If we lose our values we may as well lose the federation--our values is
>> afterall what unites us, but we have to not have that "comply or I'll sue
>> you" mentality, because honestly I'm getting the impression we sometimes
>> don't even try and negotiate anything, and just sue companies without any
>> kind of dialogue taking place outside of the court.
>> 
>> Jorge
>> 
>> 
>> On May 20, 2011, at 4:12 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>> 
>>> Mike,
>>> Very true.  But, from my experience, a lot of that boils down to how
>>> we present our philosophy.  I've heard comments from some TVIS like
>>> "they wouldn't even listen to me", "they acted like I didn't even
>>> matter", "they ignored everything I said", etc.  While I'm not denying
>>> our philosophy places us in conflict with some TVIS (not as many as
>>> some people like to think), I think if we present our philosophy in a
>>> level-headed, civil, agreeable manner, even those who disagree with us
>>> will be more compelled to do so agreeably.  Making the conflict less
>>> vitriolic and bitter would do a lot to improve the way we're presented
>>> by TVIS, even many of the TVIS who don't agree with our philosophy.
>>> That's all I'm saying-I'm not saying we compromise the tenets we hold
>>> dear, I'm not saying we change our philosophy, only that we respect
>>> and sincerely make an effort to at least listen to the philosophies of
>>> others without letting emotions get in the way.
>>> Warmly,
>>> Kirt
>>> 
>>> On 5/20/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> ... hate it when posts get cut  off...
>>>> Anyway, we should make the connection with TVIs, TTBs (whatever term
>>>> you like to use) where we can and tell our story, or so I think.  Have
>>>> any folks found  success in  doing so in your respective divisions?
>>>> 
>>>> what are ways people think we can do a better job as students in the
>>>> organization of inviting younger students to get involved? how did you
>>>> (if you are  a middle/high school student) decide to get involved?
>>>> 
>>>> On 5/20/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I think there are valid points to what both Mike and Kirt are saying.
>>>>> However, I would think you could make that argument for any segment of
>>>>> the blindness community, and I think that as members of student
>>>>> divisions-( the population that TVIs serve) we should  make more of an
>>>>> effort wherever possible to reach those j  population
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 5/19/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On the other hand, no matter how reasonably we present ourselves, our
>>>>>> philosophy in and of itself is such a threat to some TVIs that their
>>>>>> ears
>>>>>> are closed.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 6:57 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] About the future of NABS and the NFB
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Darian and all,
>>>>>> I think sometimes we underestimate the role of vission teachers.
>>>>>> (call them what you want-TVIs, teachers of blind students, itinerate
>>>>>> teachers, whatever)  These are usually the people who give blind
>>>>>> students,
>>>>>> and their parents, first impressions about blindness and thus they have
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> huge influence on whatever expectations a student or parent develops
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> what is possible as a blind person.  I think we need to put a lot more
>>>>>> energy in to sincerely dialoguing with these teachers, especially the
>>>>>> reasonable ones who don't agree with us (I'm not saying all teachers
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> disagree with us are reasonable), to improve our image and the way
>>>>>> we're
>>>>>> presented to students.  Because my state affiliate is pretty good at
>>>>>> this,
>>>>>> my TVI, although she disagreed with a lot of what the NFB does, didn't
>>>>>> discourage me from coming to my own opinions and getting as much
>>>>>> firsthand
>>>>>> experience with the Federation as I could.  Even those blindness
>>>>>> professionals who disagree with us can, if we present ourselves in a
>>>>>> civil
>>>>>> and courteous manner, direct students to our organization.  It happened
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> me.
>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 5/19/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> You know, one thing that I would like to add to this discussion  is
>>>>>>> the following  "what ideas would you  suggest to improve what you may
>>>>>>> think needs improving?"
>>>>>>> I think it's  really easy for all of us to get into the  habit of
>>>>>>> mentioning what isn't happening. Sometimes, it's  not so much a matter
>>>>>>> that no one is aware of an issue (sometimes, on the other hand,  this
>>>>>>> in fact may be the case), but suggestions on how to improve are also
>>>>>>> very valuable.   Remember, we never roll out of bed with the answers!
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Darian
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 5/19/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 	I don't think we're doing enough with the middleschool/elementary
>>>>>>>> population.
>>>>>>>> We need to get the message out faster, to the younger kids.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On May 19, 2011, at 9:00 PM, dsmithnfb at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Let's bring this conversation fourth. What do people think  about
>>>>>>>>> this question?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On May 19, 2011, at 5:39 PM, "Tina Hansen" <th404 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to know what people felt about the future of the NFB, and
>>>>>>>>>> whether or not we're doing anything to address how to communicate
>>>>>>>>>> our message in a way that will reach people through new
>>>>>>>>>> technologies.
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter:
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Robert Byrne
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>>>> 
>>>>> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
>>>>> 
>>>>> — Robert Byrne
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Darian Smith
>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>>> 
>>>> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
>>>> 
>>>> — Robert Byrne
>>>> 
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>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> 
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