[nabs-l] About the future of NABS and the NFB

Sat May 21 00:13:11 UTC 2011

Jorge,
  That's just standard procedure for any organization and, from
talking with people in the thick of the politics, I've gotten the
impression that the NFB isn't any different.  As a general rule, any
organization with a grievance against another entity will first
dialogue, then file a complaint, then look for a settlement-assuming a
settlement isn't reached, then the case goes to court.  That's pretty
much standard legal procedure, and I'd be shocked if the NFB jumps
straight to suits whenever the opportunity presents itself.
  Darian,
  Amen!
  Warmly,
Kirt

On 5/20/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> Kirt:
> I'm kinda taking this at face value, since the NFB has never refered to any
> negotiations before suing anyone.
> If however there is obvious negotiations before the law suit then that's a
> different story.
>
> On May 20, 2011, at 7:33 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>
>> Jorge,
>>  Well said.  But we don't see all the dialogue and negotiations that
>> go on behind the scenes before something goes to court.  Legal
>> representation isn't cheap (even for the NFB), court proceedings are
>> timely and cumbersome-noone wants to go to court if it can be avoided.
>> NFB included.  Maybe we could do a better job publicizing the
>> dialogue we go through with people before we're compelled to go to
>> court.
>>  I'm not saying I agree with every suit the Federation's been
>> involved in of late.  But there are two sides to this issue and, more
>> often than not, suits are made only after efforts to go through
>> dialogue and mediation have proved fruitless.  I'm sure the Federation
>> isn't an exception to that rule-perhaps someone more familiar with the
>> inner workings of national NFB politics can shed some light here.
>>  Warmly,
>> Kirt
>> P.S.  Jorge, I agree with most of your message-just the part about
>> suits made me want to open my big mouth.  *grin*
>>
>> On 5/20/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Kirt:
>>> Agree completely.
>>> I think (and I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular), that there has
>>> been arrogance in some of our NFB members--weather in the leadership or
>>> out
>>> of it, which has damaged the whole organization.
>>> I'm saying its time we present ourselves in a calmer way.
>>> I'm not saying not to fight for our rights.
>>> If we lose our values we may as well lose the federation--our values is
>>> afterall what unites us, but we have to not have that "comply or I'll sue
>>> you" mentality, because honestly I'm getting the impression we sometimes
>>> don't even try and negotiate anything, and just sue companies without any
>>> kind of dialogue taking place outside of the court.
>>>
>>> Jorge
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 20, 2011, at 4:12 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>> Very true.  But, from my experience, a lot of that boils down to how
>>>> we present our philosophy.  I've heard comments from some TVIS like
>>>> "they wouldn't even listen to me", "they acted like I didn't even
>>>> matter", "they ignored everything I said", etc.  While I'm not denying
>>>> our philosophy places us in conflict with some TVIS (not as many as
>>>> some people like to think), I think if we present our philosophy in a
>>>> level-headed, civil, agreeable manner, even those who disagree with us
>>>> will be more compelled to do so agreeably.  Making the conflict less
>>>> vitriolic and bitter would do a lot to improve the way we're presented
>>>> by TVIS, even many of the TVIS who don't agree with our philosophy.
>>>> That's all I'm saying-I'm not saying we compromise the tenets we hold
>>>> dear, I'm not saying we change our philosophy, only that we respect
>>>> and sincerely make an effort to at least listen to the philosophies of
>>>> others without letting emotions get in the way.
>>>> Warmly,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 5/20/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> ... hate it when posts get cut  off...
>>>>> Anyway, we should make the connection with TVIs, TTBs (whatever term
>>>>> you like to use) where we can and tell our story, or so I think.  Have
>>>>> any folks found  success in  doing so in your respective divisions?
>>>>>
>>>>> what are ways people think we can do a better job as students in the
>>>>> organization of inviting younger students to get involved? how did you
>>>>> (if you are  a middle/high school student) decide to get involved?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/20/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I think there are valid points to what both Mike and Kirt are saying.
>>>>>> However, I would think you could make that argument for any segment of
>>>>>> the blindness community, and I think that as members of student
>>>>>> divisions-( the population that TVIs serve) we should  make more of an
>>>>>> effort wherever possible to reach those j  population
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/19/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On the other hand, no matter how reasonably we present ourselves, our
>>>>>>> philosophy in and of itself is such a threat to some TVIs that their
>>>>>>> ears
>>>>>>> are closed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 6:57 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] About the future of NABS and the NFB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Darian and all,
>>>>>>> I think sometimes we underestimate the role of vission teachers.
>>>>>>> (call them what you want-TVIs, teachers of blind students, itinerate
>>>>>>> teachers, whatever)  These are usually the people who give blind
>>>>>>> students,
>>>>>>> and their parents, first impressions about blindness and thus they
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> huge influence on whatever expectations a student or parent develops
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> what is possible as a blind person.  I think we need to put a lot
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> energy in to sincerely dialoguing with these teachers, especially the
>>>>>>> reasonable ones who don't agree with us (I'm not saying all teachers
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> disagree with us are reasonable), to improve our image and the way
>>>>>>> we're
>>>>>>> presented to students.  Because my state affiliate is pretty good at
>>>>>>> this,
>>>>>>> my TVI, although she disagreed with a lot of what the NFB does,
>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>> discourage me from coming to my own opinions and getting as much
>>>>>>> firsthand
>>>>>>> experience with the Federation as I could.  Even those blindness
>>>>>>> professionals who disagree with us can, if we present ourselves in a
>>>>>>> civil
>>>>>>> and courteous manner, direct students to our organization.  It
>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/19/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> You know, one thing that I would like to add to this discussion  is
>>>>>>>> the following  "what ideas would you  suggest to improve what you
>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>> think needs improving?"
>>>>>>>> I think it's  really easy for all of us to get into the  habit of
>>>>>>>> mentioning what isn't happening. Sometimes, it's  not so much a
>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>> that no one is aware of an issue (sometimes, on the other hand,
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> in fact may be the case), but suggestions on how to improve are also
>>>>>>>> very valuable.   Remember, we never roll out of bed with the
>>>>>>>> answers!
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Darian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/19/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 	I don't think we're doing enough with the middleschool/elementary
>>>>>>>>> population.
>>>>>>>>> We need to get the message out faster, to the younger kids.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 19, 2011, at 9:00 PM, dsmithnfb at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let's bring this conversation fourth. What do people think  about
>>>>>>>>>> this question?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 19, 2011, at 5:39 PM, "Tina Hansen" <th404 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to know what people felt about the future of the NFB,
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> whether or not we're doing anything to address how to communicate
>>>>>>>>>>> our message in a way that will reach people through new
>>>>>>>>>>> technologies.
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter:
>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Robert Byrne
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> — Robert Byrne
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>>>>
>>>>> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
>>>>>
>>>>> — Robert Byrne
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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