[nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

Sat May 21 11:51:07 UTC 2011

I am not saying that Nemeth should be replaced, but I do feel that people need to realize that the Nemeth Code itself replaced what was called the Taylor 
Code in the 1950's and it was a pretty complete change.  From what I know about the Taylor code, it was not as complete as is Nemeth, so it seemed to 
be a good move.  The point is that we had to go through a significant change and we made it.  Any change should not be made lightly, though, and we 
need to learn as much as we can about any change before supporting or opposing it.  We also need to understand what is happening in print as well.  I 
am not a person who believes braille has to reflect print exactly, but there are things that happen in print that play a role in education, particularly, that 
didn't happen fifty years ago.  I have also traditionally opposed changing braille just to make it easier to translate using a computer, but I think that this now 
plays a larger role with refreshable braille displays and access to untranslated electronic texts.  This all goes beyond Nemeth Code itself, though.  There 
are things that might be done that are less aggressive than a unified code like UEB or NUBS, I don't claim to be an expert there.  I simply don't think we 
should oppose something because it is change, nor should we embrace something simply because it is new.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Sat, 21 May 2011 01:39:43 -0400, Josh Gregory wrote:

>People have talked about losing Nemeth as far as I understand it.  
>That, (JMHO) will not happen.  We as blind people have become so 
>used to it, that, if another code were to be introduced, as 
>others have rightfully said, it'd take a while for it to be 
>adopted, as well as for us to learn it.  So I don't think Nemeth 
>will vanish and I like it more than UEB because it has more of 
>what I'm used to, contractions.  While I * could * learn and use 
>it, for me, Nemeth is the way to go.
>Josh

>sent from my Apex

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 21 May 2011 00:25:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

>Hi Chris,
>I think the point you make is the idea behind a unified code.  In 
>print, different symbols are used for math and for letters.  In 
>braille, we use the same symbols to represent both math and 
>letters depending on context.  The unified system would 
>theoretically eliminate much of the need for context to determine 
>what a text says, making it more like print.

>The appeal of a unified code is that there is only one code to 
>learn, instead of learning one code for reading, one for math, 
>and one for computer symbols.  Computer braille, for example, is 
>rather clunky and unwieldy.

>I don't really have a strong opinion about whether a unified code 
>would be better than the current systems used.  But having one 
>code does seem like it might simplify things.

>Just my thoughts,
>Greg

>On May 20, 2011, at 3:19 PM, -ris Nusbaum wrote:

> Hi Greg,

> My only counterpoint to that suggestion (which is a good one, 
>don't get me wrong) is that there are different symbols for 
>literary and math print as far as I know.  In print, there are 
>different symbols for different operations in math than they are 
>in Nemeth.  If anyone is a Braille/print expert here or is 
>affiliated with BANA, could you confirm or clarify this for me?

> Chris

> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities 
>motto)

> --- Sent from my BrailleNote

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:43:53 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

> Actually, Dr.  Nemeth has continued to update and change the 
>code, trying to integrate it as seamlessly as possible with 
>literary braille.  I would be surprised if he would be offended 
>by a discussion of the future of his code.  Admittedly, I have 
>not followed the threads talking about the future of braille, so 
>I probably don't understand the context for Joshua's reaction 
>here.  I do think its good to think critically about how tools 
>can be improved and better used in general though.

> As far as the original question, I do hope that some kind of 
>unified braille system will be adopted in the U.S.  which 
>integrates math and literary braille.  This seems like a 
>challenging problem to solve, and widespread adoption of a new 
>code will take quite a while, but fortunately better minds than 
>mine, such as Dr.  Nemeth, have started working on this problem.

> -Greg

> On May 19, 2011, at 11:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:

> i had the honor of meeting Dr.  Nemeth, last year, in Dallas.
> I'm sure he'd hate to hear of us talking about his code, being
> changed, or it becoming obsilete.
> Nemeth Code will stay around!
> I learned math, with it, and it's the way to go!
> Blessings, Joshua

> On 5/19/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm with Mike here.  Nemeth is absolutely brilliant-probably the 
>main
> reason (aside from awesome tutors) I was able to pass college 
>Algebra.

> On 5/19/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> It'll stay around if I have anything to do with it.

> Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:53 PM
> To: NABS-L
> Subject: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

> Many people have been talking about the future of Braille in 
>general.  What
> about the future of Nemeth?
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