[nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

Sat May 21 14:04:44 UTC 2011

Joshua,
  From what I know of the man, he'd be the first to accept changes
made to the code if they were constructive.
  Best,
Kirt

On 5/21/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> If only, Dr. Nemeth, could post here!
> I hope he's doing well.
> Has anyone heard from him?
> If so, please contact me, off list.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/21/11, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
>> I am not saying that Nemeth should be replaced, but I do feel that people
>> need to realize that the Nemeth Code itself replaced what was called the
>> Taylor
>> Code in the 1950's and it was a pretty complete change.  From what I know
>> about the Taylor code, it was not as complete as is Nemeth, so it seemed
>> to
>> be a good move.  The point is that we had to go through a significant
>> change
>> and we made it.  Any change should not be made lightly, though, and we
>> need to learn as much as we can about any change before supporting or
>> opposing it.  We also need to understand what is happening in print as
>> well.
>>  I
>> am not a person who believes braille has to reflect print exactly, but
>> there
>> are things that happen in print that play a role in education,
>> particularly,
>> that
>> didn't happen fifty years ago.  I have also traditionally opposed changing
>> braille just to make it easier to translate using a computer, but I think
>> that this now
>> plays a larger role with refreshable braille displays and access to
>> untranslated electronic texts.  This all goes beyond Nemeth Code itself,
>> though.  There
>> are things that might be done that are less aggressive than a unified code
>> like UEB or NUBS, I don't claim to be an expert there.  I simply don't
>> think
>> we
>> should oppose something because it is change, nor should we embrace
>> something simply because it is new.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Sat, 21 May 2011 01:39:43 -0400, Josh Gregory wrote:
>>
>>>People have talked about losing Nemeth as far as I understand it.
>>>That, (JMHO) will not happen.  We as blind people have become so
>>>used to it, that, if another code were to be introduced, as
>>>others have rightfully said, it'd take a while for it to be
>>>adopted, as well as for us to learn it.  So I don't think Nemeth
>>>will vanish and I like it more than UEB because it has more of
>>>what I'm used to, contractions.  While I * could * learn and use
>>>it, for me, Nemeth is the way to go.
>>>Josh
>>
>>>sent from my Apex
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Sat, 21 May 2011 00:25:40 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?
>>
>>>Hi Chris,
>>>I think the point you make is the idea behind a unified code.  In
>>>print, different symbols are used for math and for letters.  In
>>>braille, we use the same symbols to represent both math and
>>>letters depending on context.  The unified system would
>>>theoretically eliminate much of the need for context to determine
>>>what a text says, making it more like print.
>>
>>>The appeal of a unified code is that there is only one code to
>>>learn, instead of learning one code for reading, one for math,
>>>and one for computer symbols.  Computer braille, for example, is
>>>rather clunky and unwieldy.
>>
>>>I don't really have a strong opinion about whether a unified code
>>>would be better than the current systems used.  But having one
>>>code does seem like it might simplify things.
>>
>>>Just my thoughts,
>>>Greg
>>
>>>On May 20, 2011, at 3:19 PM, -ris Nusbaum wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Greg,
>>
>>> My only counterpoint to that suggestion (which is a good one,
>>>don't get me wrong) is that there are different symbols for
>>>literary and math print as far as I know.  In print, there are
>>>different symbols for different operations in math than they are
>>>in Nemeth.  If anyone is a Braille/print expert here or is
>>>affiliated with BANA, could you confirm or clarify this for me?
>>
>>> Chris
>>
>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities
>>>motto)
>>
>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:43:53 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?
>>
>>> Actually, Dr.  Nemeth has continued to update and change the
>>>code, trying to integrate it as seamlessly as possible with
>>>literary braille.  I would be surprised if he would be offended
>>>by a discussion of the future of his code.  Admittedly, I have
>>>not followed the threads talking about the future of braille, so
>>>I probably don't understand the context for Joshua's reaction
>>>here.  I do think its good to think critically about how tools
>>>can be improved and better used in general though.
>>
>>> As far as the original question, I do hope that some kind of
>>>unified braille system will be adopted in the U.S.  which
>>>integrates math and literary braille.  This seems like a
>>>challenging problem to solve, and widespread adoption of a new
>>>code will take quite a while, but fortunately better minds than
>>>mine, such as Dr.  Nemeth, have started working on this problem.
>>
>>> -Greg
>>
>>
>>> On May 19, 2011, at 11:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>
>>> i had the honor of meeting Dr.  Nemeth, last year, in Dallas.
>>> I'm sure he'd hate to hear of us talking about his code, being
>>> changed, or it becoming obsilete.
>>> Nemeth Code will stay around!
>>> I learned math, with it, and it's the way to go!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>
>>> On 5/19/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm with Mike here.  Nemeth is absolutely brilliant-probably the
>>>main
>>> reason (aside from awesome tutors) I was able to pass college
>>>Algebra.
>>
>>> On 5/19/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>> It'll stay around if I have anything to do with it.
>>
>>> Mike
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:53 PM
>>> To: NABS-L
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?
>>
>>> Many people have been talking about the future of Braille in
>>>general.  What
>>> about the future of Nemeth?
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