[nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

Josh Gregory joshkart12 at gmail.com
Sat May 21 16:30:26 UTC 2011


I understand, I misinterpreted, my apologies.  And I agree with 
you.
Josh

sent from my Apex

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 21 May 2011 06:51:07 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

I am not saying that Nemeth should be replaced, but I do feel 
that people need to realize that the Nemeth Code itself replaced 
what was called the Taylor
Code in the 1950's and it was a pretty complete change.  From 
what I know about the Taylor code, it was not as complete as is 
Nemeth, so it seemed to
be a good move.  The point is that we had to go through a 
significant change and we made it.  Any change should not be made 
lightly, though, and we
need to learn as much as we can about any change before 
supporting or opposing it.  We also need to understand what is 
happening in print as well.  I
am not a person who believes braille has to reflect print 
exactly, but there are things that happen in print that play a 
role in education, particularly, that
didn't happen fifty years ago.  I have also traditionally opposed 
changing braille just to make it easier to translate using a 
computer, but I think that this now
plays a larger role with refreshable braille displays and access 
to untranslated electronic texts.  This all goes beyond Nemeth 
Code itself, though.  There
are things that might be done that are less aggressive than a 
unified code like UEB or NUBS, I don't claim to be an expert 
there.  I simply don't think we
should oppose something because it is change, nor should we 
embrace something simply because it is new.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Sat, 21 May 2011 01:39:43 -0400, Josh Gregory wrote:

People have talked about losing Nemeth as far as I understand it.
That, (JMHO) will not happen.  We as blind people have become so
used to it, that, if another code were to be introduced, as
others have rightfully said, it'd take a while for it to be
adopted, as well as for us to learn it.  So I don't think Nemeth
will vanish and I like it more than UEB because it has more of
what I'm used to, contractions.  While I * could * learn and use
it, for me, Nemeth is the way to go.
Josh

sent from my Apex

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 21 May 2011 00:25:40 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

Hi Chris,
I think the point you make is the idea behind a unified code.  In
print, different symbols are used for math and for letters.  In
braille, we use the same symbols to represent both math and
letters depending on context.  The unified system would
theoretically eliminate much of the need for context to determine
what a text says, making it more like print.

The appeal of a unified code is that there is only one code to
learn, instead of learning one code for reading, one for math,
and one for computer symbols.  Computer braille, for example, is
rather clunky and unwieldy.

I don't really have a strong opinion about whether a unified code
would be better than the current systems used.  But having one
code does seem like it might simplify things.

Just my thoughts,
Greg

On May 20, 2011, at 3:19 PM, -ris Nusbaum wrote:

 Hi Greg,

 My only counterpoint to that suggestion (which is a good one,
don't get me wrong) is that there are different symbols for
literary and math print as far as I know.  In print, there are
different symbols for different operations in math than they are
in Nemeth.  If anyone is a Braille/print expert here or is
affiliated with BANA, could you confirm or clarify this for me?

 Chris

 "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities
motto)

 --- Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:43:53 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

 Actually, Dr.  Nemeth has continued to update and change the
code, trying to integrate it as seamlessly as possible with
literary braille.  I would be surprised if he would be offended
by a discussion of the future of his code.  Admittedly, I have
not followed the threads talking about the future of braille, so
I probably don't understand the context for Joshua's reaction
here.  I do think its good to think critically about how tools
can be improved and better used in general though.

 As far as the original question, I do hope that some kind of
unified braille system will be adopted in the U.S.  which
integrates math and literary braille.  This seems like a
challenging problem to solve, and widespread adoption of a new
code will take quite a while, but fortunately better minds than
mine, such as Dr.  Nemeth, have started working on this problem.

 -Greg


 On May 19, 2011, at 11:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:

 i had the honor of meeting Dr.  Nemeth, last year, in Dallas.
 I'm sure he'd hate to hear of us talking about his code, being
 changed, or it becoming obsilete.
 Nemeth Code will stay around!
 I learned math, with it, and it's the way to go!
 Blessings, Joshua


 On 5/19/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm with Mike here.  Nemeth is absolutely brilliant-probably the
main
 reason (aside from awesome tutors) I was able to pass college
Algebra.

 On 5/19/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
 It'll stay around if I have anything to do with it.

 Mike


 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf
 Of Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
 Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:53 PM
 To: NABS-L
 Subject: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

 Many people have been talking about the future of Braille in
general.  What
 about the future of Nemeth?
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