[nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

Sat May 21 15:46:14 UTC 2011

Joshua,
  So you met him?  I'm a little jealous.

On 5/21/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> I know.
> I'd just like to know how he's doing.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/21/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>>   From what I know of the man, he'd be the first to accept changes
>> made to the code if they were constructive.
>>   Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 5/21/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> If only, Dr. Nemeth, could post here!
>>> I hope he's doing well.
>>> Has anyone heard from him?
>>> If so, please contact me, off list.
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 5/21/11, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
>>>> I am not saying that Nemeth should be replaced, but I do feel that
>>>> people
>>>> need to realize that the Nemeth Code itself replaced what was called the
>>>> Taylor
>>>> Code in the 1950's and it was a pretty complete change.  From what I
>>>> know
>>>> about the Taylor code, it was not as complete as is Nemeth, so it seemed
>>>> to
>>>> be a good move.  The point is that we had to go through a significant
>>>> change
>>>> and we made it.  Any change should not be made lightly, though, and we
>>>> need to learn as much as we can about any change before supporting or
>>>> opposing it.  We also need to understand what is happening in print as
>>>> well.
>>>>  I
>>>> am not a person who believes braille has to reflect print exactly, but
>>>> there
>>>> are things that happen in print that play a role in education,
>>>> particularly,
>>>> that
>>>> didn't happen fifty years ago.  I have also traditionally opposed
>>>> changing
>>>> braille just to make it easier to translate using a computer, but I
>>>> think
>>>> that this now
>>>> plays a larger role with refreshable braille displays and access to
>>>> untranslated electronic texts.  This all goes beyond Nemeth Code itself,
>>>> though.  There
>>>> are things that might be done that are less aggressive than a unified
>>>> code
>>>> like UEB or NUBS, I don't claim to be an expert there.  I simply don't
>>>> think
>>>> we
>>>> should oppose something because it is change, nor should we embrace
>>>> something simply because it is new.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 21 May 2011 01:39:43 -0400, Josh Gregory wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>People have talked about losing Nemeth as far as I understand it.
>>>>>That, (JMHO) will not happen.  We as blind people have become so
>>>>>used to it, that, if another code were to be introduced, as
>>>>>others have rightfully said, it'd take a while for it to be
>>>>>adopted, as well as for us to learn it.  So I don't think Nemeth
>>>>>will vanish and I like it more than UEB because it has more of
>>>>>what I'm used to, contractions.  While I * could * learn and use
>>>>>it, for me, Nemeth is the way to go.
>>>>>Josh
>>>>
>>>>>sent from my Apex
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 21 May 2011 00:25:40 -0500
>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?
>>>>
>>>>>Hi Chris,
>>>>>I think the point you make is the idea behind a unified code.  In
>>>>>print, different symbols are used for math and for letters.  In
>>>>>braille, we use the same symbols to represent both math and
>>>>>letters depending on context.  The unified system would
>>>>>theoretically eliminate much of the need for context to determine
>>>>>what a text says, making it more like print.
>>>>
>>>>>The appeal of a unified code is that there is only one code to
>>>>>learn, instead of learning one code for reading, one for math,
>>>>>and one for computer symbols.  Computer braille, for example, is
>>>>>rather clunky and unwieldy.
>>>>
>>>>>I don't really have a strong opinion about whether a unified code
>>>>>would be better than the current systems used.  But having one
>>>>>code does seem like it might simplify things.
>>>>
>>>>>Just my thoughts,
>>>>>Greg
>>>>
>>>>>On May 20, 2011, at 3:19 PM, -ris Nusbaum wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Greg,
>>>>
>>>>> My only counterpoint to that suggestion (which is a good one,
>>>>>don't get me wrong) is that there are different symbols for
>>>>>literary and math print as far as I know.  In print, there are
>>>>>different symbols for different operations in math than they are
>>>>>in Nemeth.  If anyone is a Braille/print expert here or is
>>>>>affiliated with BANA, could you confirm or clarify this for me?
>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities
>>>>>motto)
>>>>
>>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:43:53 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?
>>>>
>>>>> Actually, Dr.  Nemeth has continued to update and change the
>>>>>code, trying to integrate it as seamlessly as possible with
>>>>>literary braille.  I would be surprised if he would be offended
>>>>>by a discussion of the future of his code.  Admittedly, I have
>>>>>not followed the threads talking about the future of braille, so
>>>>>I probably don't understand the context for Joshua's reaction
>>>>>here.  I do think its good to think critically about how tools
>>>>>can be improved and better used in general though.
>>>>
>>>>> As far as the original question, I do hope that some kind of
>>>>>unified braille system will be adopted in the U.S.  which
>>>>>integrates math and literary braille.  This seems like a
>>>>>challenging problem to solve, and widespread adoption of a new
>>>>>code will take quite a while, but fortunately better minds than
>>>>>mine, such as Dr.  Nemeth, have started working on this problem.
>>>>
>>>>> -Greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On May 19, 2011, at 11:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i had the honor of meeting Dr.  Nemeth, last year, in Dallas.
>>>>> I'm sure he'd hate to hear of us talking about his code, being
>>>>> changed, or it becoming obsilete.
>>>>> Nemeth Code will stay around!
>>>>> I learned math, with it, and it's the way to go!
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/19/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm with Mike here.  Nemeth is absolutely brilliant-probably the
>>>>>main
>>>>> reason (aside from awesome tutors) I was able to pass college
>>>>>Algebra.
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/19/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>>>> It'll stay around if I have anything to do with it.
>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:53 PM
>>>>> To: NABS-L
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?
>>>>
>>>>> Many people have been talking about the future of Braille in
>>>>>general.  What
>>>>> about the future of Nemeth?
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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