[nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

Chris Nusbaum dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Sat May 21 18:32:54 UTC 2011 

I know, right? Haven't heard anything from him or about him since 
the Louis Braille coin launch, though.  However, I don't think he 
would be on the students list.  * Smile!

 Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)

--- Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 21 May 2011 07:14:16 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

If only, Dr.  Nemeth, could post here!
I hope he's doing well.
Has anyone heard from him?
If so, please contact me, off list.
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/21/11, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
 I am not saying that Nemeth should be replaced, but I do feel 
that people
 need to realize that the Nemeth Code itself replaced what was 
called the
 Taylor
 Code in the 1950's and it was a pretty complete change.  From 
what I know
 about the Taylor code, it was not as complete as is Nemeth, so 
it seemed to
 be a good move.  The point is that we had to go through a 
significant change
 and we made it.  Any change should not be made lightly, though, 
and we
 need to learn as much as we can about any change before 
supporting or
 opposing it.  We also need to understand what is happening in 
print as well.
  I
 am not a person who believes braille has to reflect print 
exactly, but there
 are things that happen in print that play a role in education, 
particularly,
 that
 didn't happen fifty years ago.  I have also traditionally 
opposed changing
 braille just to make it easier to translate using a computer, 
but I think
 that this now
 plays a larger role with refreshable braille displays and access 
to
 untranslated electronic texts.  This all goes beyond Nemeth Code 
itself,
 though.  There
 are things that might be done that are less aggressive than a 
unified code
 like UEB or NUBS, I don't claim to be an expert there.  I simply 
don't think
 we
 should oppose something because it is change, nor should we 
embrace
 something simply because it is new.

 Best regards,

 Steve Jacobson

 On Sat, 21 May 2011 01:39:43 -0400, Josh Gregory wrote:

People have talked about losing Nemeth as far as I understand it.
That, (JMHO) will not happen.  We as blind people have become so
used to it, that, if another code were to be introduced, as
others have rightfully said, it'd take a while for it to be
adopted, as well as for us to learn it.  So I don't think Nemeth
will vanish and I like it more than UEB because it has more of
what I'm used to, contractions.  While I * could * learn and use
it, for me, Nemeth is the way to go.
Josh

sent from my Apex

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 21 May 2011 00:25:40 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

Hi Chris,
I think the point you make is the idea behind a unified code.  In
print, different symbols are used for math and for letters.  In
braille, we use the same symbols to represent both math and
letters depending on context.  The unified system would
theoretically eliminate much of the need for context to determine
what a text says, making it more like print.

The appeal of a unified code is that there is only one code to
learn, instead of learning one code for reading, one for math,
and one for computer symbols.  Computer braille, for example, is
rather clunky and unwieldy.

I don't really have a strong opinion about whether a unified code
would be better than the current systems used.  But having one
code does seem like it might simplify things.

Just my thoughts,
Greg

On May 20, 2011, at 3:19 PM, -ris Nusbaum wrote:

 Hi Greg,

 My only counterpoint to that suggestion (which is a good one,
don't get me wrong) is that there are different symbols for
literary and math print as far as I know.  In print, there are
different symbols for different operations in math than they are
in Nemeth.  If anyone is a Braille/print expert here or is
affiliated with BANA, could you confirm or clarify this for me?

 Chris

 "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities
motto)

 --- Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:43:53 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

 Actually, Dr.  Nemeth has continued to update and change the
code, trying to integrate it as seamlessly as possible with
literary braille.  I would be surprised if he would be offended
by a discussion of the future of his code.  Admittedly, I have
not followed the threads talking about the future of braille, so
I probably don't understand the context for Joshua's reaction
here.  I do think its good to think critically about how tools
can be improved and better used in general though.

 As far as the original question, I do hope that some kind of
unified braille system will be adopted in the U.S.  which
integrates math and literary braille.  This seems like a
challenging problem to solve, and widespread adoption of a new
code will take quite a while, but fortunately better minds than
mine, such as Dr.  Nemeth, have started working on this problem.

 -Greg


 On May 19, 2011, at 11:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:

 i had the honor of meeting Dr.  Nemeth, last year, in Dallas.
 I'm sure he'd hate to hear of us talking about his code, being
 changed, or it becoming obsilete.
 Nemeth Code will stay around!
 I learned math, with it, and it's the way to go!
 Blessings, Joshua


 On 5/19/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm with Mike here.  Nemeth is absolutely brilliant-probably the
main
 reason (aside from awesome tutors) I was able to pass college
Algebra.

 On 5/19/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
 It'll stay around if I have anything to do with it.

 Mike


 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf
 Of Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
 Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:53 PM
 To: NABS-L
 Subject: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

 Many people have been talking about the future of Braille in
general.  What
 about the future of Nemeth?
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