[nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?

Kirt Manwaring kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Sat May 21 20:35:36 UTC 2011 

I didn't mean to say it was ilogical-it makes sense to me.  I just
meant sometimes it seems like it's stretching the possible
combinations of braille dots for all they're worth.  I guess a better
way to say what I'm thinking is that it would be hard to add anything
to braille music because it seems like it already uses almost all
braille variations possible-even so, I think it's put together
brilliantly and is pretty intuitive.  Am I making sense?

On 5/21/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> I was going to say the exact same thing, but you beat me to it.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirt Manwaring" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 11:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?
>
>
>> Chris,
>>  I'm not recommending a unified code.  All I'm saying is that,
>> because braille is limited to a relatively small number of dot
>> combinations, and in print you can pretty much draw whatever the hell
>> you want, we're better off with the separate codes as they stand, with
>> modifications to each code as the need arises.  In other words-there
>> aren't enough possible things you can do with braille to make a
>> unified code, with separate symbols for letters and numbers and music
>> and computer characters practical.  Braille is equal to print.
>> Braille is not print.
>>  Warmly,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 5/21/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> But my point is if print readers use different symbols for
>>> letters than numbers and math symbols,
>>> why do we need the same symbols for numbers and letters in
>>> Braille? So then...  would you also recommend a unified code for
>>> print?
>>>
>>>  Chris
>>>
>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
>>>
>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sat, 21 May 2011 00:25:40 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?
>>>
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> I think the point you make is the idea behind a unified code.  In
>>> print, different symbols are used for math and for letters.  In
>>> braille, we use the same symbols to represent both math and
>>> letters depending on context.  The unified system would
>>> theoretically eliminate much of the need for context to determine
>>> what a text says, making it more like print.
>>>
>>> The appeal of a unified code is that there is only one code to
>>> learn, instead of learning one code for reading, one for math,
>>> and one for computer symbols.  Computer braille, for example, is
>>> rather clunky and unwieldy.
>>>
>>> I don't really have a strong opinion about whether a unified code
>>> would be better than the current systems used.  But having one
>>> code does seem like it might simplify things.
>>>
>>> Just my thoughts,
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On May 20, 2011, at 3:19 PM, 혇is Nusbaum wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi Greg,
>>>
>>>  My only counterpoint to that suggestion (which is a good one,
>>> don't get me wrong) is that there are different symbols for
>>> literary and math print as far as I know.  In print, there are
>>> different symbols for different operations in math than they are
>>> in Nemeth.  If anyone is a Braille/print expert here or is
>>> affiliated with BANA, could you confirm or clarify this for me?
>>>
>>>  Chris
>>>
>>>  "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities
>>> motto)
>>>
>>>  --- Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  Date sent: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:43:53 -0500
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?
>>>
>>>  Actually, Dr.  Nemeth has continued to update and change the
>>> code, trying to integrate it as seamlessly as possible with
>>> literary braille.  I would be surprised if he would be offended
>>> by a discussion of the future of his code.  Admittedly, I have
>>> not followed the threads talking about the future of braille, so
>>> I probably don't understand the context for Joshua's reaction
>>> here.  I do think its good to think critically about how tools
>>> can be improved and better used in general though.
>>>
>>>  As far as the original question, I do hope that some kind of
>>> unified braille system will be adopted in the U.S.  which
>>> integrates math and literary braille.  This seems like a
>>> challenging problem to solve, and widespread adoption of a new
>>> code will take quite a while, but fortunately better minds than
>>> mine, such as Dr.  Nemeth, have started working on this problem.
>>>
>>>  -Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>  On May 19, 2011, at 11:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>
>>>  i had the honor of meeting Dr.  Nemeth, last year, in Dallas.
>>>  I'm sure he'd hate to hear of us talking about his code, being
>>>  changed, or it becoming obsilete.
>>>  Nemeth Code will stay around!
>>>  I learned math, with it, and it's the way to go!
>>>  Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 5/19/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  I'm with Mike here.  Nemeth is absolutely brilliant-probably the
>>> main
>>>  reason (aside from awesome tutors) I was able to pass college
>>> Algebra.
>>>
>>>  On 5/19/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>>  It'll stay around if I have anything to do with it.
>>>
>>>  Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>  Behalf
>>>  Of Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
>>>  Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:53 PM
>>>  To: NABS-L
>>>  Subject: [nabs-l] The Future of Nemeth?
>>>
>>>  Many people have been talking about the future of Braille in
>>> general.  What
>>>  about the future of Nemeth?
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