[nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And Bookshare

[Kirt Manwaring]

Kevin,
  I didn't know that.  I feel a little less guilty about my learning
ally books, assuming you're right.

On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike,
>    I wish you weren't right.
>
> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ashley,
>>   If your braille display breaks and you're unemployed...good luck
>> reading bookshare books in braille.  Using those ebook readers and
>> paying for a couple books with SSI would probably be one of the few
>> options you had left- or you might have to rely on the hardcopy
>> braille books the NLS provides.  Do you see my point?  The problem of
>> expensive braille displays, and getting them with little or no income,
>> will be there no matter if we're using bookshare or blio to get our
>> braille books.
>>
>> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ashley,
>>>   You're supposed to return a cd from learning ally-I think I still
>>> have some old ones from years ago hiding in my room somewhere, and
>>> noone's so much as sent me a notice so I'm not sure how much that's
>>> actually enforced.  NLS enforces that policy pretty good-except there
>>> aren't fines or anything for lost books...they just put it in as
>>> "lost" in their files and that's the end of that.  Don't ask me how I
>>> know...suffice it to say that, were I a user of regular libraries, I'd
>>> have a lot less money to play with.  *grin*  So no, the return
>>> policies aren't exactly the same, at least as they're enforced in real
>>> life.  Oh-and for the record, my days of losing library books ended a
>>> long time ago.  Mostly.
>>>   Best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Kevin,
>>>>   There are some textbooks for which bookshare isn't all that
>>>> practical.  For instance, I took a logic class last semester where
>>>> they used all sorts of symbols that aren't in any braille code...I
>>>> kind of had to make my own personal logic-braille.  (which I mostly
>>>> used on paper because there just weren't symbols in the braille code
>>>> for what I needed)  Bookshare couldn't handle those kinds of books.
>>>> From my understanding, Mike was talking about the technical aspect
>>>> more than the legal aspect.  (i.e, rendering books like my logic book
>>>> accessible in electronic braille).  Mike, am I understanding you
>>>> wrong?
>>>>   Best,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 5/25/11, Kevin Fjelsted <kfjelsted at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I actually don't think it would take any new laws.
>>>>> I think the department of education could write the regulations for
>>>>> this
>>>>> based on existing law.
>>>>> The federal government is great and producing basketful's of paper
>>>>> regulations.
>>>>> The key is that the disability funding has a major share that comes
>>>>> from
>>>>> the
>>>>> federal government.
>>>>> So if the department of education and the other agencies combined
>>>>> there
>>>>> efforts around funding and states that disability services ors need to
>>>>> provide to a central location the title and contents of any books that
>>>>> they
>>>>> need to convert.
>>>>> The department of education doesn't need to build another database or
>>>>> storage structure because they already fund a major part of BookShare.
>>>>> -Kevin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 25, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Mike Freeman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kevin: How would such a law be implemented in the case of technical
>>>>>> materials? Seems to me we have a way to go before imposing such
>>>>>> strictures
>>>>>> on DSS departments, much as these would be desirable in the abstract.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>>> sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 25, 2011, at 13:39, Kevin Fjelsted <kfjelsted at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where we could exude some real leverage as an organization would be
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> work to have the U.S. department of Education require that any
>>>>>>> University
>>>>>>> or School that receives federal funding for any aspect of disability
>>>>>>> services upload a quality copy of any book that the institution's DS
>>>>>>> department creates to BookShare.
>>>>>>> Remember that initially BookShare was a sharing point where books
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> be scanned and uploaded by volunteers.
>>>>>>> The infrastructure seems be well developed for central storage and
>>>>>>> cataloging of accessible books.
>>>>>>> Since the U.S. Department Of Education is providing quite a bit of
>>>>>>> funding to BookShare and the federal government is providing huge
>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>> to disability services this process if mandated by the federal
>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>> could take all the individual DS efforts across institutions and
>>>>>>> insure
>>>>>>> that there is a central catalog for books that have been converted
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> well as the actual book itself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Furthermore if institutions were required to only adopt books that
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> available in accessible format or loose there federal disability
>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>> then the publishers would be lining up to put there books on
>>>>>>> BookShare.
>>>>>>> I would certainly rather have BookShare manage the content and
>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> common format that we can use across the various devices and
>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>> software apps then have to hunt all over the internet for it and
>>>>>>> pray
>>>>>>> that I can find an accessible version.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are a long way from accessible book readers chiefly because there
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> not enough teeth in the laws and regulations to force the momentum
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> create accessible material.
>>>>>>> -Kevin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 25, 2011, at 3:23 PM, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>> I think you miss the point. We still need an accessible library of
>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>> via NLS or  bookshare.
>>>>>>>> Sighted people can borrow books at the library or buy them used or
>>>>>>>> cheap
>>>>>>>> online. Anyone else can buy a paperbook that is very cheap.  Yes
>>>>>>>> novels
>>>>>>>> are easily rendered accessible.  But I don't think many ebook
>>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>>> are accessible.
>>>>>>>> Have you forgotten the protest against Amozon kindle because they
>>>>>>>> silenced speech?
>>>>>>>> I heard that the Barnes & Nobel ebook reader is not accessible. And
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> personal example, my library has ebooks too.
>>>>>>>> But at Nova, Ashley can't use them because they're pdf files. Jaws
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> only reading the title, not the entire page!
>>>>>>>> Now this is unequal access. I say keep NLS and Learning Ally. If
>>>>>>>> ebook
>>>>>>>> readers were actually accessible, then we can think about
>>>>>>>> eliminating
>>>>>>>> what you call preferential treatment.
>>>>>>>> As it stands now, I got to pay, yes pay a reader, to read the
>>>>>>>> ebooks
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> myriad of paper sources because those are not accessible to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 3:24 PM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And
>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>>>> One other thing I didn't catch from your last email.  If access to
>>>>>>>> novels from mainstream sources is pretty straightforward, why do we
>>>>>>>> still insist on getting these novels from bookshare and learning
>>>>>>>> ally
>>>>>>>> for free?  I'd personally like it if NLS implimented some sort of
>>>>>>>> delete timer in to their downloads like lots of other digital ebook
>>>>>>>> lending libraries do.  (overdrive anyone?)  But if we can read our
>>>>>>>> novels in braille through ibooks or blio, where we can buy them
>>>>>>>> honestly, why do we still demand getting these novels from
>>>>>>>> bookshare
>>>>>>>> or learning ally for free?  Sounds like preferential treatment to
>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>> at least with books that aren't textbooks.
>>>>>>>> Warmly,
>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>>>>> Fair enough.  I was a bit too bold and am probably a bit too
>>>>>>>>> optomistic-I'll defer to you on that front.  And scientific/math
>>>>>>>>> notation has always been a problem with electronic braille, hasn't
>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>> I think that's one area where paper braille, for all its
>>>>>>>>> annoyances,
>>>>>>>>> will probably always be superior, barring some crazy new inovation
>>>>>>>>> making braille displays bigger and representing tactile graphics
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> the braille pins or something.  It'll need to be that drastic, I
>>>>>>>>> think, to make rendering of graphics in refreshable braille even
>>>>>>>>> comparable to paper braille with embossers and so forth...so we'll
>>>>>>>>> probably be grappling with that issue for a long time, regardless
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> what happens to bookshare.  I certainly wouldn't trust a math or
>>>>>>>>> science textbook from bookshare-they've had problems enough with
>>>>>>>>> literary braille.
>>>>>>>>> I see your point about brand names.  But when one of those brands
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> owned and operated by the NFB, I feel a lot more comfortable about
>>>>>>>>> that brand providing braille support.  It's not a guarantee of
>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>> (I've honestly been a bit disappointed with the blio so far) but
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> makes me feel pretty comfortable that blio will get better and
>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>> access will improve.  I hope the good people at KNFB don't
>>>>>>>>> disappoint-the NFB's set a pretty good precedent for accessibility
>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> far and it'd be a shame if Blio doesn't hit the mark.
>>>>>>>>> Warmly,
>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/11, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As I see it, we need to get access to e-books, and there are some
>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>> happening that hold great promise.  I think that giving us access
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> novel, for
>>>>>>>>>> example, is probably pretty straight-forward in most cases.  We
>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>> access
>>>>>>>>>> to E-texts to even have a chance at accessing more mainstream
>>>>>>>>>> titles,
>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>> not suggesting that this isn't important.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is a lot up in the air yet with respect to scientific and
>>>>>>>>>> math
>>>>>>>>>> notation and how information in drawings should be conveyed.
>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> be that
>>>>>>>>>> important for leisure reading, but it is very important in
>>>>>>>>>> textbooks.
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps it will evolve that organizations such as Learning Ally
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> concentrate on making
>>>>>>>>>> the various drawings accessible.  They might then create a final
>>>>>>>>>> product
>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>> merging their special representation of drawings with the text
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>> available.  I think we may have a harder time forcing publishers
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> create
>>>>>>>>>> accessible drawings because that goes a bit further than just
>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> same text
>>>>>>>>>> and making it available in another format.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My second reason for hanging back on this is that all of the
>>>>>>>>>> tools
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> name
>>>>>>>>>> are brand names, products of a specific company.  We don't know
>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>> sort
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> availability of accessible texts will be maintained over time.
>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> industry
>>>>>>>>>> is new, and we don't know a lot yet about consistency.  What if
>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> displaying text catches on in five years and the approach used is
>>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> make accessible.  My point isn't that there isn't reason to have
>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>> hope,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> rather that we need to base those services we decide we no longer
>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> what is there now and not on what we think will be the case
>>>>>>>>>> eventually.
>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>> 1997 or so, Adobe made a committment, due in part to pressure, to
>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> Acrobat Reader accessible.  Even with their efforts, our governor
>>>>>>>>>> yesterday
>>>>>>>>>> released statements using PDF documents that were not accessible.
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> never have thought in 1997 that there would still be inaccessible
>>>>>>>>>> PDF's
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> 2011.  We justneed to be cautious when predicting where
>>>>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>>>>> goes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 May 2011 11:42:15 -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Steve and Mike,
>>>>>>>>>>> You're the technology people here, so I won't argue this too
>>>>>>>>>>> hard.
>>>>>>>>>>> But are my statements about braille access to textbooks
>>>>>>>>>>> premature?
>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't that kind of a huge reason why we're making the Blio
>>>>>>>>>>> reader
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> working with Amazon on their Kindel?  Are you saying that an
>>>>>>>>>>> ebook
>>>>>>>>>>> reader, produced in part by the NFB, which is free, will not
>>>>>>>>>>> become
>>>>>>>>>>> more accessible and will not support braille access?  That seems
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>>>>>> silly to me.  What about websites like coursesmart?  You guys
>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>> more about this than I do but it seems to me that we're moving
>>>>>>>>>>> fast
>>>>>>>>>>> towards access to mainstream books in braille.
>>>>>>>>>>> Steve, I'd submit that we'd need the expensive technology to
>>>>>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>>>>>> electronic braille, with or without bookshare.  If we want to
>>>>>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> bookshare file in electronic braille, we need one of those
>>>>>>>>>>> expensive
>>>>>>>>>>> braille displays or notetakers-we'd need the exact same
>>>>>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>>>>>> setup to read a mainstream braille book through Blio or
>>>>>>>>>>> coursesmart
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> (I still think before too long) the Kindel.  We'd just have to
>>>>>>>>>>> pay
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> same price for our books the sighted have to pay-if we don't
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> money, maybe that's an insentive to start working or, at the
>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> least, better manage our precious SSI.
>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/11, Liz Bottner <liziswhatis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> TO my knowledge, book publishers are actually partnering with
>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> make their books available and accessible. I do think that
>>>>>>>>>>>> quality
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> BKS
>>>>>>>>>>>> books has improved over the years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Liz Bottner
>>>>>>>>>>>> Guiding Eyes Graduate Council
>>>>>>>>>>>> GEB Voicemail:  800-942-0149 Ext. 2531
>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail:
>>>>>>>>>>>> liziswhatis at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit my LiveJournal:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/lizbot
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Sally Thomas
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:20 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There really needs to be some entity that is REQUIRED to
>>>>>>>>>>>> produce
>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>> textbooks.  That process is a bit different than the process
>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> translate novels into braille.  I think it's great that more
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>> are easily accessible with the new technology available, but it
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> foolish to assume that publishers are going to put
>>>>>>>>>>>> accessibility
>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>> designing electronic files.  The NIMAC is the repository of
>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>> textbook files.  Textbook companies are required to make K-12
>>>>>>>>>>>> textbooks
>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps there is a more streamlined way to get good braille in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind students than using Bookshare but there needs to be a
>>>>>>>>>>>> dedicated
>>>>>>>>>>>> process for producing quality braille.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sally Thomas
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Kirt Manwaring" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 11:28 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing (I hate double posting, but I sure do it a lot),
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe I was being just a bit too bold-we're not quite to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>>>>>> where mainstream ebooks are as accessible as bookshare files or
>>>>>>>>>>>> RFB&D
>>>>>>>>>>>> audiobooks...but we're moving there fast.  I don't think it'll
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>>> long until you can read a Kindle book or a Blio book on your
>>>>>>>>>>>> notetaker
>>>>>>>>>>>> or smart phone with braille display.  The technology's out
>>>>>>>>>>>> there,
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> just needs to be developed and put to use a little bit more-and
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> trend's already started with Apple and Blio.  But it won't be
>>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>> until reading a mainstream ebook in braille, on any platform we
>>>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> read electronic braille now, will be as saemless and practical
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> using bookshare.  When that happens (and it's certainly not far
>>>>>>>>>>>> off),
>>>>>>>>>>>> I suspect we'll have an interesting philosophical debate on our
>>>>>>>>>>>> hands...and you all better know where I'll stand after my last
>>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>>> posts.  *grin*  And now, for me, I don't need bookshare anymore
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>> ebooks for free I should buy and I feel like Learning Ally
>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> probably the same because of Audible (although audible's
>>>>>>>>>>>> library
>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> as extensive for textbooks), and I feel a little guilty every
>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> download a learning ally book for free that I should buy, just
>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> every sighted person out there has to buy audiobooks instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>> getting them on a silver platter
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm done now,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> More and more sighted people are reading ebooks instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> libraries or buying them hardcopy.  The ability to read
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ebooks in braille, not just on apple devices but on computers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably notetakers before too long, is expanding at a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tremendous
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rate!  If we want to borrow a hardcopy book, we should use a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> library
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like everyone else does.  If we want to buy a hard copy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>>>>>> book
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should use a book store (ala NBP), just like sighted people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> buy hardcopy books if they want to keep them.  Maybe it's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to see if government can subsidize NBP and similar
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bookstores
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we have to pay the same price as everyone else.  But if we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an ebook to keep, we should have to buy it.  Just like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> else.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And the technology to read ebooks in braille (not just on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices, but with a braille display and a computer) is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and expanding fast!  Can somebody tell me why, if we want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated equally, we're clinging to free ebooks when we have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> options
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (again, not just apple!), to buy our ebooks just like everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and read them with braille displays?  If that's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hippocricy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly don't know what is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't mean to insult anyone, offend anyone, or hurt anyone's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> feelings.  But I obviously feel pretty strongly about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this-please
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't take my passion as a personal attack.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With respect,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well said.  I agree with those statements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about it that way as well.  What do sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when they want a new book?  They go to the public library, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Borders or some other book store.  Sometimes they go on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order hard copy books.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We, however, do not get hard copy braille books very easily.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many books are "made" (I mean specifically made, not just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embossed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the common people) for distribution.  But we need equal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books, so we get all these different formats in which we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think he is confused about the term equal access.  It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that *everyone* needs to buy an iPad or whatever and download
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just like the sighted people do.  It means that we can have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choices as the sighted people.  Equal access, equal choices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't want to read our books on an Apple device, we shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forced to, and if we want to read all our books on iPhones,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is our choice as well, but we shouldn't have choices taken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us in the guise of equal access.  Are all sighted people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch over to reading their books on their Apple divices?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us.  That just doesn't seem right to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure I'm completely crazy in saying all these random
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find this is my opinion.  Sorry for subjecting you to my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rambles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Brice Smith <brice.smith319 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Besides the undercurrent of Apple snobbery here ("It seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many others who have embraced the integrated access of Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> products,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that some quarters of the visually impaired community desire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access without equal responsibility,) I have one MAJOR,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundamental
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem with this article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ":
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those who may argue that, given the high percentage of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired individuals with low or limited incomes, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afford to purchase books, I have two questions. First, what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sighted individuals who are in similar circumstances?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unemployment rate continues at high levels, and I'm sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who are currently facing hard times would love a treasure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trove
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free books at their fingertips. Why don't we open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NLS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up to these unfortunates?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sighted individuals do have a treasure trove of free books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disposal. It's called the public library, Josh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, I treat BookShare like a library, in that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delete what I download when I'm finished reading. I'm sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users of BookShare  and NLS keep everything they download,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not mind at all if Bookshare or NLS encouraged and moved
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> towards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> model of renting and borrowing as opposed to downloading and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, BookShare is my treasure trove and rental service for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the public library is the treasure trove and rental service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted individuals.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Guys:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I came across an interesting editorial/article written by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Josh
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DeLioncourt from lioncourt.com/the Maccessibility Network
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get your thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article discusses the future of NLS and Bookshare and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ebooks. It suggests that as visually impaired/blind people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try to move towards a future of reading/purchasing Ebooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream sources such as the Amazon Kindle, Audible.com,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ibooks and that blindness-specific sources such as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bookshare.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the NLS library service should go away.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just for discussion sake what are your thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you see NLS and Bookshare completely going away in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just for what it's worth, here are my thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While mainstream sources are great, what about braille and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> literacy? You can't use a braille display to read Kindle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Audible books are audio so no braille there. As far as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct me if I'm wrong) you can't read Ibooks with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either. I for one love Bookshare because you can download
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BRF files and read them in braille on either a braille
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notetaker. You can also get hardcopy braille books from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NLS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about those who do not like the voice used by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kindle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the Samantha voice on the Iphone? I for one hate those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voices
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading book purposes...I've tried and just can't get into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about seniors just losing their vision? Though I hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people get into technology as possible you have to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer savvy to work the kindle PC software and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ibooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Iphone/Ipod touch/Ipad is all touchscreen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts...I would be very very sad if NLS and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hHere is the article...just thought I'd bring this up for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purposes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kerri
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crossroads: Rekindling the Accessible Ebook Discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Josh de Lioncourt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A few weeks ago, I read a question posed by someone on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rekindled a line of thought I have had on and off for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years. In essence, the question was this: "We have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> National Library Service, and other similar resources. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> care about the accessibility of eBook platforms like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iBooks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kindle,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adobe Digital Editions, etc?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the surface, this question, which has been posed by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with whom I've been acquainted, appears to be a pragmatic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> digs a little deeper, however, it becomes an illustration
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alarming attitude, often an unconscious one, throughout the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before exploring that aspect, though, let's take a quick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few of the strictly practical answers that can be given
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .In general, books released in printed form are now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simultaneously
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> available in digital formats. This provides readers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access to material, be it for pleasure, education, or work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same time as their sighted counterparts. This is rarely the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> publications offered through many of the resources aimed at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> providing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> materials in accessible formats.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Many of the resources which provide accessible materials
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandably required to obtain medical proof of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their users before they are able to gain access to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provided. Some users may be unwilling or unable to jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hoops, or find it a violation of privacy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Some services require expensive, unwieldy, or otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or inefficient equipment to access their content. By
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contrast,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commercial solutions like Apple's iBooks and Amazon's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kindle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access to their content across a variety of mainstream
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including mobile phones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Some resources of accessible content, (i.e.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recurring fee for the service. For avid readers who consume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of books each year, this is undoubtedly a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost-efficient
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution. For those who read only occasionally, however, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prove
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far more costly than purchasing books from a digital
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retailer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Many books are never made available in accessible formats
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bodies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is by no means an exhaustive list of practical reasons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired user may prefer access to a digital
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-book
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but it does provide a sample of the variety of such
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution will ever work for all users, and that must be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kept
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind when topics such as this are discussed or debated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a far more important issue that this subject
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raises,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is best expressed in the form of a question: "As
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people, what is it we desire most: equal access, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preferential
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treatment?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Several years ago, this was not nearly as legitimate of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Services like NLS and BookShare provided materials that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible to those with visual impairments or other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a manner that was equivalent to public libraries.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the ever increasing ubiquity of the Internet, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> availability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and usage of public libraries around the globe has fallen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharply.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Research can be done far more efficiently online, where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wealth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information is virtually limitless and growing all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WikiPedia article outlines the basic statistics of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decline
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> library use over the last twenty years. As far back as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2001,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> college students felt it made more sense to obtain the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they needed online than by visiting a physical library.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The majority of information online is, of course, far more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the visually impaired have ever had access to in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technological advances, if any, have had such a profound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality of life for visually impaired individuals, and you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> none who would argue that point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the decline of libraries as a research tool has come
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decline
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of their usage as a source of books consumed for pleasure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ask
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself this: how many sighted readers do you know who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regularly,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively, obtain books for a local public library to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer will be very few, if any. These days, most avid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase books to read, just like any other form of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entertainment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media such as music or movies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While the usefulness of services like NLS or BookShare.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passed is undeniable, their necessity is waning in the wake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible mainstream sources of materials such as iBooks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inkling,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Audible.com. Though services providing accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with disabilities may still be the best, or in some cases
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution for some users today, we should be actively moving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toward
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future of equal access with our sighted peers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems to me, and many others who have embraced the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access of Apple products, that some quarters of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community desire equal access without equal responsibility,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when regards written material. Do we, the visually impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase music like everyone else? Do we buy DVD's like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we pay for Coca-Colas at the corner store or our lattes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> StarBucks? Why not our books as well? Is the entertainment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educational value of a novel by Stephen King or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on programming C++so low that we feel it isn't worth as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the latest album by Lady Gaga or a course at the local
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> college?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those who may argue that, given the high percentage of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired individuals with low or limited incomes, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afford to purchase books, I have two questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, what of all of the sighted individuals who are in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> circumstances? The unemployment rate continues at high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure many of those who are currently facing hard times
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> love a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treasure trove of free books at their fingertips. Why don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org or NLS up to these unfortunates?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second, what about all the funds wasted, be it by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government agencies, on access technology which is less
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream solutions? For example, the GW Micro BookSense
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in $349 USD and $499 USD varieties. It allows visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to read books in electronic format and listen to audio
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> music.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How is this a better value than, for example, an iPod
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provides the same functionality, plus Internet access,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of thousands of applications to extend its capabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just $229 USD? This isn't even to mention the fact that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iPod
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be connected to a Braille display, has significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> storage,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a battery warranty that is twice the length of what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the BookSense. Wouldn't money saved by integrated solutions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be better spent compensating the authors of useful or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entertaining
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books for their hard work?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it not the height of hypocrisy that the visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wastes not a moment in lambasting, (even suing), companies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lack of accessibility in its Kindle products, and yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion that we begin moving away from having the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> printed materials handed over for free?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We, the visually impaired community, are rapidly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> approaching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crossroads. It is time to prove that we have the courage of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convictions. Will we be worthy of equal access, and by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extension
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities? Or will we squander the chance to put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ourselves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal footing with the sighted world by an unwillingness to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> move
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward with society, and a misplaced sense of entitlement?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know which outcome I'm hoping for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gma
>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brice Smith
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> North Carolina State University, Communication - Public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Relations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co
>>>>>>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Julie McG
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opera
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guiding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eyes for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eternal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>
>