[nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And Bookshare

Wed May 25 21:49:18 UTC 2011

Learning Ally now instructs us to dispose of the CDs.

Mike Freeman
sent from my iPhone

On May 25, 2011, at 14:35, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:

> Kevin,
>  I didn't know that.  I feel a little less guilty about my learning
> ally books, assuming you're right.
> 
> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mike,
>>   I wish you weren't right.
>> 
>> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ashley,
>>>  If your braille display breaks and you're unemployed...good luck
>>> reading bookshare books in braille.  Using those ebook readers and
>>> paying for a couple books with SSI would probably be one of the few
>>> options you had left- or you might have to rely on the hardcopy
>>> braille books the NLS provides.  Do you see my point?  The problem of
>>> expensive braille displays, and getting them with little or no income,
>>> will be there no matter if we're using bookshare or blio to get our
>>> braille books.
>>> 
>>> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ashley,
>>>>  You're supposed to return a cd from learning ally-I think I still
>>>> have some old ones from years ago hiding in my room somewhere, and
>>>> noone's so much as sent me a notice so I'm not sure how much that's
>>>> actually enforced.  NLS enforces that policy pretty good-except there
>>>> aren't fines or anything for lost books...they just put it in as
>>>> "lost" in their files and that's the end of that.  Don't ask me how I
>>>> know...suffice it to say that, were I a user of regular libraries, I'd
>>>> have a lot less money to play with.  *grin*  So no, the return
>>>> policies aren't exactly the same, at least as they're enforced in real
>>>> life.  Oh-and for the record, my days of losing library books ended a
>>>> long time ago.  Mostly.
>>>>  Best,
>>>> Kirt
>>>> 
>>>> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Kevin,
>>>>>  There are some textbooks for which bookshare isn't all that
>>>>> practical.  For instance, I took a logic class last semester where
>>>>> they used all sorts of symbols that aren't in any braille code...I
>>>>> kind of had to make my own personal logic-braille.  (which I mostly
>>>>> used on paper because there just weren't symbols in the braille code
>>>>> for what I needed)  Bookshare couldn't handle those kinds of books.
>>>>> From my understanding, Mike was talking about the technical aspect
>>>>> more than the legal aspect.  (i.e, rendering books like my logic book
>>>>> accessible in electronic braille).  Mike, am I understanding you
>>>>> wrong?
>>>>>  Best,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 5/25/11, Kevin Fjelsted <kfjelsted at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I actually don't think it would take any new laws.
>>>>>> I think the department of education could write the regulations for
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> based on existing law.
>>>>>> The federal government is great and producing basketful's of paper
>>>>>> regulations.
>>>>>> The key is that the disability funding has a major share that comes
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> federal government.
>>>>>> So if the department of education and the other agencies combined
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> efforts around funding and states that disability services ors need to
>>>>>> provide to a central location the title and contents of any books that
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> need to convert.
>>>>>> The department of education doesn't need to build another database or
>>>>>> storage structure because they already fund a major part of BookShare.
>>>>>> -Kevin
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 25, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Mike Freeman wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Kevin: How would such a law be implemented in the case of technical
>>>>>>> materials? Seems to me we have a way to go before imposing such
>>>>>>> strictures
>>>>>>> on DSS departments, much as these would be desirable in the abstract.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>>>> sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On May 25, 2011, at 13:39, Kevin Fjelsted <kfjelsted at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Where we could exude some real leverage as an organization would be
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> work to have the U.S. department of Education require that any
>>>>>>>> University
>>>>>>>> or School that receives federal funding for any aspect of disability
>>>>>>>> services upload a quality copy of any book that the institution's DS
>>>>>>>> department creates to BookShare.
>>>>>>>> Remember that initially BookShare was a sharing point where books
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> be scanned and uploaded by volunteers.
>>>>>>>> The infrastructure seems be well developed for central storage and
>>>>>>>> cataloging of accessible books.
>>>>>>>> Since the U.S. Department Of Education is providing quite a bit of
>>>>>>>> funding to BookShare and the federal government is providing huge
>>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>>> to disability services this process if mandated by the federal
>>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>>> could take all the individual DS efforts across institutions and
>>>>>>>> insure
>>>>>>>> that there is a central catalog for books that have been converted
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> well as the actual book itself.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Furthermore if institutions were required to only adopt books that
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> available in accessible format or loose there federal disability
>>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>>> then the publishers would be lining up to put there books on
>>>>>>>> BookShare.
>>>>>>>> I would certainly rather have BookShare manage the content and
>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> common format that we can use across the various devices and
>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>> software apps then have to hunt all over the internet for it and
>>>>>>>> pray
>>>>>>>> that I can find an accessible version.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> We are a long way from accessible book readers chiefly because there
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> not enough teeth in the laws and regulations to force the momentum
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> create accessible material.
>>>>>>>> -Kevin
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2011, at 3:23 PM, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>> I think you miss the point. We still need an accessible library of
>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>> via NLS or  bookshare.
>>>>>>>>> Sighted people can borrow books at the library or buy them used or
>>>>>>>>> cheap
>>>>>>>>> online. Anyone else can buy a paperbook that is very cheap.  Yes
>>>>>>>>> novels
>>>>>>>>> are easily rendered accessible.  But I don't think many ebook
>>>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>>>> are accessible.
>>>>>>>>> Have you forgotten the protest against Amozon kindle because they
>>>>>>>>> silenced speech?
>>>>>>>>> I heard that the Barnes & Nobel ebook reader is not accessible. And
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> personal example, my library has ebooks too.
>>>>>>>>> But at Nova, Ashley can't use them because they're pdf files. Jaws
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> only reading the title, not the entire page!
>>>>>>>>> Now this is unequal access. I say keep NLS and Learning Ally. If
>>>>>>>>> ebook
>>>>>>>>> readers were actually accessible, then we can think about
>>>>>>>>> eliminating
>>>>>>>>> what you call preferential treatment.
>>>>>>>>> As it stands now, I got to pay, yes pay a reader, to read the
>>>>>>>>> ebooks
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> myriad of paper sources because those are not accessible to me.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 3:24 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And
>>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>>>>> One other thing I didn't catch from your last email.  If access to
>>>>>>>>> novels from mainstream sources is pretty straightforward, why do we
>>>>>>>>> still insist on getting these novels from bookshare and learning
>>>>>>>>> ally
>>>>>>>>> for free?  I'd personally like it if NLS implimented some sort of
>>>>>>>>> delete timer in to their downloads like lots of other digital ebook
>>>>>>>>> lending libraries do.  (overdrive anyone?)  But if we can read our
>>>>>>>>> novels in braille through ibooks or blio, where we can buy them
>>>>>>>>> honestly, why do we still demand getting these novels from
>>>>>>>>> bookshare
>>>>>>>>> or learning ally for free?  Sounds like preferential treatment to
>>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>>> at least with books that aren't textbooks.
>>>>>>>>> Warmly,
>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>>>>>> Fair enough.  I was a bit too bold and am probably a bit too
>>>>>>>>>> optomistic-I'll defer to you on that front.  And scientific/math
>>>>>>>>>> notation has always been a problem with electronic braille, hasn't
>>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>>> I think that's one area where paper braille, for all its
>>>>>>>>>> annoyances,
>>>>>>>>>> will probably always be superior, barring some crazy new inovation
>>>>>>>>>> making braille displays bigger and representing tactile graphics
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> the braille pins or something.  It'll need to be that drastic, I
>>>>>>>>>> think, to make rendering of graphics in refreshable braille even
>>>>>>>>>> comparable to paper braille with embossers and so forth...so we'll
>>>>>>>>>> probably be grappling with that issue for a long time, regardless
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> what happens to bookshare.  I certainly wouldn't trust a math or
>>>>>>>>>> science textbook from bookshare-they've had problems enough with
>>>>>>>>>> literary braille.
>>>>>>>>>> I see your point about brand names.  But when one of those brands
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> owned and operated by the NFB, I feel a lot more comfortable about
>>>>>>>>>> that brand providing braille support.  It's not a guarantee of
>>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>>> (I've honestly been a bit disappointed with the blio so far) but
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> makes me feel pretty comfortable that blio will get better and
>>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>>> access will improve.  I hope the good people at KNFB don't
>>>>>>>>>> disappoint-the NFB's set a pretty good precedent for accessibility
>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>> far and it'd be a shame if Blio doesn't hit the mark.
>>>>>>>>>> Warmly,
>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/11, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> As I see it, we need to get access to e-books, and there are some
>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>> happening that hold great promise.  I think that giving us access
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> novel, for
>>>>>>>>>>> example, is probably pretty straight-forward in most cases.  We
>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>> access
>>>>>>>>>>> to E-texts to even have a chance at accessing more mainstream
>>>>>>>>>>> titles,
>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>>> not suggesting that this isn't important.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> There is a lot up in the air yet with respect to scientific and
>>>>>>>>>>> math
>>>>>>>>>>> notation and how information in drawings should be conveyed.
>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> be that
>>>>>>>>>>> important for leisure reading, but it is very important in
>>>>>>>>>>> textbooks.
>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps it will evolve that organizations such as Learning Ally
>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> concentrate on making
>>>>>>>>>>> the various drawings accessible.  They might then create a final
>>>>>>>>>>> product
>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> merging their special representation of drawings with the text
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>> available.  I think we may have a harder time forcing publishers
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> create
>>>>>>>>>>> accessible drawings because that goes a bit further than just
>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> same text
>>>>>>>>>>> and making it available in another format.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> My second reason for hanging back on this is that all of the
>>>>>>>>>>> tools
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> name
>>>>>>>>>>> are brand names, products of a specific company.  We don't know
>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>> sort
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> availability of accessible texts will be maintained over time.
>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>> industry
>>>>>>>>>>> is new, and we don't know a lot yet about consistency.  What if
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> displaying text catches on in five years and the approach used is
>>>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> make accessible.  My point isn't that there isn't reason to have
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> hope,
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> rather that we need to base those services we decide we no longer
>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> what is there now and not on what we think will be the case
>>>>>>>>>>> eventually.
>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>> 1997 or so, Adobe made a committment, due in part to pressure, to
>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> Acrobat Reader accessible.  Even with their efforts, our governor
>>>>>>>>>>> yesterday
>>>>>>>>>>> released statements using PDF documents that were not accessible.
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> never have thought in 1997 that there would still be inaccessible
>>>>>>>>>>> PDF's
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> 2011.  We justneed to be cautious when predicting where
>>>>>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>>>>>> goes.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 May 2011 11:42:15 -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve and Mike,
>>>>>>>>>>>> You're the technology people here, so I won't argue this too
>>>>>>>>>>>> hard.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But are my statements about braille access to textbooks
>>>>>>>>>>>> premature?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't that kind of a huge reason why we're making the Blio
>>>>>>>>>>>> reader
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> working with Amazon on their Kindel?  Are you saying that an
>>>>>>>>>>>> ebook
>>>>>>>>>>>> reader, produced in part by the NFB, which is free, will not
>>>>>>>>>>>> become
>>>>>>>>>>>> more accessible and will not support braille access?  That seems
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>>>>>>> silly to me.  What about websites like coursesmart?  You guys
>>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>> more about this than I do but it seems to me that we're moving
>>>>>>>>>>>> fast
>>>>>>>>>>>> towards access to mainstream books in braille.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve, I'd submit that we'd need the expensive technology to
>>>>>>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>>>>>>> electronic braille, with or without bookshare.  If we want to
>>>>>>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> bookshare file in electronic braille, we need one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>> expensive
>>>>>>>>>>>> braille displays or notetakers-we'd need the exact same
>>>>>>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>>>>>>> setup to read a mainstream braille book through Blio or
>>>>>>>>>>>> coursesmart
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> (I still think before too long) the Kindel.  We'd just have to
>>>>>>>>>>>> pay
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same price for our books the sighted have to pay-if we don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> money, maybe that's an insentive to start working or, at the
>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>> least, better manage our precious SSI.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/11, Liz Bottner <liziswhatis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> TO my knowledge, book publishers are actually partnering with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> make their books available and accessible. I do think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BKS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> books has improved over the years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Liz Bottner
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guiding Eyes Graduate Council
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GEB Voicemail:  800-942-0149 Ext. 2531
>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> liziswhatis at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit my LiveJournal:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/lizbot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Sally Thomas
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:20 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There really needs to be some entity that is REQUIRED to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> produce
>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>>> textbooks.  That process is a bit different than the process
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> translate novels into braille.  I think it's great that more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are easily accessible with the new technology available, but it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> foolish to assume that publishers are going to put
>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessibility
>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>>> designing electronic files.  The NIMAC is the repository of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>>> textbook files.  Textbook companies are required to make K-12
>>>>>>>>>>>>> textbooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps there is a more streamlined way to get good braille in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind students than using Bookshare but there needs to be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dedicated
>>>>>>>>>>>>> process for producing quality braille.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sally Thomas
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Kirt Manwaring" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 11:28 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing (I hate double posting, but I sure do it a lot),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe I was being just a bit too bold-we're not quite to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where mainstream ebooks are as accessible as bookshare files or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RFB&D
>>>>>>>>>>>>> audiobooks...but we're moving there fast.  I don't think it'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>>>> long until you can read a Kindle book or a Blio book on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> notetaker
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or smart phone with braille display.  The technology's out
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just needs to be developed and put to use a little bit more-and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> trend's already started with Apple and Blio.  But it won't be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>> until reading a mainstream ebook in braille, on any platform we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> read electronic braille now, will be as saemless and practical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> using bookshare.  When that happens (and it's certainly not far
>>>>>>>>>>>>> off),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I suspect we'll have an interesting philosophical debate on our
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hands...and you all better know where I'll stand after my last
>>>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>>>> posts.  *grin*  And now, for me, I don't need bookshare anymore
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ebooks for free I should buy and I feel like Learning Ally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably the same because of Audible (although audible's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> library
>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as extensive for textbooks), and I feel a little guilty every
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> download a learning ally book for free that I should buy, just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> every sighted person out there has to buy audiobooks instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting them on a silver platter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm done now,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More and more sighted people are reading ebooks instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> libraries or buying them hardcopy.  The ability to read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ebooks in braille, not just on apple devices but on computers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably notetakers before too long, is expanding at a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tremendous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rate!  If we want to borrow a hardcopy book, we should use a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> library
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like everyone else does.  If we want to buy a hard copy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> book
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should use a book store (ala NBP), just like sighted people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buy hardcopy books if they want to keep them.  Maybe it's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to see if government can subsidize NBP and similar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bookstores
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we have to pay the same price as everyone else.  But if we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an ebook to keep, we should have to buy it.  Just like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And the technology to read ebooks in braille (not just on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices, but with a braille display and a computer) is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and expanding fast!  Can somebody tell me why, if we want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated equally, we're clinging to free ebooks when we have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (again, not just apple!), to buy our ebooks just like everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and read them with braille displays?  If that's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hippocricy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly don't know what is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't mean to insult anyone, offend anyone, or hurt anyone's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feelings.  But I obviously feel pretty strongly about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this-please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't take my passion as a personal attack.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With respect,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well said.  I agree with those statements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about it that way as well.  What do sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when they want a new book?  They go to the public library, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Borders or some other book store.  Sometimes they go on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order hard copy books.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We, however, do not get hard copy braille books very easily.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many books are "made" (I mean specifically made, not just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embossed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the common people) for distribution.  But we need equal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books, so we get all these different formats in which we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think he is confused about the term equal access.  It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that *everyone* needs to buy an iPad or whatever and download
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just like the sighted people do.  It means that we can have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choices as the sighted people.  Equal access, equal choices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't want to read our books on an Apple device, we shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forced to, and if we want to read all our books on iPhones,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is our choice as well, but we shouldn't have choices taken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us in the guise of equal access.  Are all sighted people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch over to reading their books on their Apple divices?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us.  That just doesn't seem right to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure I'm completely crazy in saying all these random
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find this is my opinion.  Sorry for subjecting you to my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rambles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Brice Smith <brice.smith319 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Besides the undercurrent of Apple snobbery here ("It seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many others who have embraced the integrated access of Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> products,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that some quarters of the visually impaired community desire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access without equal responsibility,) I have one MAJOR,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundamental
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem with this article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ":
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those who may argue that, given the high percentage of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired individuals with low or limited incomes, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afford to purchase books, I have two questions. First, what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sighted individuals who are in similar circumstances?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unemployment rate continues at high levels, and I'm sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who are currently facing hard times would love a treasure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trove
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free books at their fingertips. Why don't we open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NLS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up to these unfortunates?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sighted individuals do have a treasure trove of free books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disposal. It's called the public library, Josh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, I treat BookShare like a library, in that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delete what I download when I'm finished reading. I'm sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users of BookShare  and NLS keep everything they download,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not mind at all if Bookshare or NLS encouraged and moved
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> towards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> model of renting and borrowing as opposed to downloading and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, BookShare is my treasure trove and rental service for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the public library is the treasure trove and rental service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted individuals.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Guys:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I came across an interesting editorial/article written by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Josh
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DeLioncourt from lioncourt.com/the Maccessibility Network
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get your thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article discusses the future of NLS and Bookshare and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ebooks. It suggests that as visually impaired/blind people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try to move towards a future of reading/purchasing Ebooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream sources such as the Amazon Kindle, Audible.com,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ibooks and that blindness-specific sources such as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bookshare.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the NLS library service should go away.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just for discussion sake what are your thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you see NLS and Bookshare completely going away in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just for what it's worth, here are my thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While mainstream sources are great, what about braille and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> literacy? You can't use a braille display to read Kindle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Audible books are audio so no braille there. As far as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct me if I'm wrong) you can't read Ibooks with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either. I for one love Bookshare because you can download
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BRF files and read them in braille on either a braille
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notetaker. You can also get hardcopy braille books from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NLS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about those who do not like the voice used by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kindle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the Samantha voice on the Iphone? I for one hate those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voices
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading book purposes...I've tried and just can't get into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about seniors just losing their vision? Though I hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people get into technology as possible you have to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer savvy to work the kindle PC software and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ibooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Iphone/Ipod touch/Ipad is all touchscreen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts...I would be very very sad if NLS and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hHere is the article...just thought I'd bring this up for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purposes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kerri
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crossroads: Rekindling the Accessible Ebook Discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Josh de Lioncourt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A few weeks ago, I read a question posed by someone on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rekindled a line of thought I have had on and off for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years. In essence, the question was this: "We have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> National Library Service, and other similar resources. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> care about the accessibility of eBook platforms like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iBooks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kindle,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adobe Digital Editions, etc?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the surface, this question, which has been posed by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with whom I've been acquainted, appears to be a pragmatic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> digs a little deeper, however, it becomes an illustration
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alarming attitude, often an unconscious one, throughout the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before exploring that aspect, though, let's take a quick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few of the strictly practical answers that can be given
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .In general, books released in printed form are now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simultaneously
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> available in digital formats. This provides readers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access to material, be it for pleasure, education, or work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same time as their sighted counterparts. This is rarely the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> publications offered through many of the resources aimed at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> providing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> materials in accessible formats.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Many of the resources which provide accessible materials
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandably required to obtain medical proof of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their users before they are able to gain access to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provided. Some users may be unwilling or unable to jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hoops, or find it a violation of privacy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Some services require expensive, unwieldy, or otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or inefficient equipment to access their content. By
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contrast,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commercial solutions like Apple's iBooks and Amazon's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kindle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access to their content across a variety of mainstream
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including mobile phones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Some resources of accessible content, (i.e.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recurring fee for the service. For avid readers who consume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of books each year, this is undoubtedly a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost-efficient
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution. For those who read only occasionally, however, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prove
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far more costly than purchasing books from a digital
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retailer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Many books are never made available in accessible formats
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bodies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is by no means an exhaustive list of practical reasons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired user may prefer access to a digital
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-book
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but it does provide a sample of the variety of such
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution will ever work for all users, and that must be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kept
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind when topics such as this are discussed or debated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a far more important issue that this subject
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raises,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is best expressed in the form of a question: "As
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people, what is it we desire most: equal access, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preferential
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treatment?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Several years ago, this was not nearly as legitimate of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Services like NLS and BookShare provided materials that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible to those with visual impairments or other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a manner that was equivalent to public libraries.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the ever increasing ubiquity of the Internet, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> availability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and usage of public libraries around the globe has fallen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharply.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Research can be done far more efficiently online, where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wealth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information is virtually limitless and growing all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WikiPedia article outlines the basic statistics of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decline
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> library use over the last twenty years. As far back as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2001,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> college students felt it made more sense to obtain the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they needed online than by visiting a physical library.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The majority of information online is, of course, far more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the visually impaired have ever had access to in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technological advances, if any, have had such a profound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality of life for visually impaired individuals, and you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> none who would argue that point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the decline of libraries as a research tool has come
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decline
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of their usage as a source of books consumed for pleasure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ask
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself this: how many sighted readers do you know who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regularly,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively, obtain books for a local public library to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer will be very few, if any. These days, most avid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase books to read, just like any other form of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entertainment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media such as music or movies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While the usefulness of services like NLS or BookShare.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passed is undeniable, their necessity is waning in the wake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible mainstream sources of materials such as iBooks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inkling,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Audible.com. Though services providing accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with disabilities may still be the best, or in some cases
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution for some users today, we should be actively moving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toward
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future of equal access with our sighted peers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems to me, and many others who have embraced the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access of Apple products, that some quarters of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community desire equal access without equal responsibility,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when regards written material. Do we, the visually impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase music like everyone else? Do we buy DVD's like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we pay for Coca-Colas at the corner store or our lattes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> StarBucks? Why not our books as well? Is the entertainment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educational value of a novel by Stephen King or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on programming C++so low that we feel it isn't worth as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the latest album by Lady Gaga or a course at the local
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> college?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those who may argue that, given the high percentage of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired individuals with low or limited incomes, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afford to purchase books, I have two questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, what of all of the sighted individuals who are in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> circumstances? The unemployment rate continues at high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure many of those who are currently facing hard times
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> love a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treasure trove of free books at their fingertips. Why don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org or NLS up to these unfortunates?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second, what about all the funds wasted, be it by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government agencies, on access technology which is less
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream solutions? For example, the GW Micro BookSense
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in $349 USD and $499 USD varieties. It allows visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to read books in electronic format and listen to audio
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> music.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How is this a better value than, for example, an iPod
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provides the same functionality, plus Internet access,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of thousands of applications to extend its capabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just $229 USD? This isn't even to mention the fact that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iPod
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be connected to a Braille display, has significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> storage,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a battery warranty that is twice the length of what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the BookSense. Wouldn't money saved by integrated solutions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be better spent compensating the authors of useful or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entertaining
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books for their hard work?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it not the height of hypocrisy that the visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wastes not a moment in lambasting, (even suing), companies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lack of accessibility in its Kindle products, and yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion that we begin moving away from having the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> printed materials handed over for free?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We, the visually impaired community, are rapidly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> approaching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crossroads. It is time to prove that we have the courage of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convictions. Will we be worthy of equal access, and by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extension
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities? Or will we squander the chance to put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ourselves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal footing with the sighted world by an unwillingness to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> move
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward with society, and a misplaced sense of entitlement?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know which outcome I'm hoping for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gma
>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brice Smith
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> North Carolina State University, Communication - Public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Relations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co
>>>>>>>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Julie McG
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opera
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guiding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eyes for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eternal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma
>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/seacknit%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liziswhatis%40hotmai
>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
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