[nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And Bookshare
Jorge Paez
computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com
Wed May 25 23:30:50 UTC 2011
That is sooooo true.
Exactly why NLS will never die.
Jorge
On May 25, 2011, at 5:32 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> Ashley,
> If your braille display breaks and you're unemployed...good luck
> reading bookshare books in braille. Using those ebook readers and
> paying for a couple books with SSI would probably be one of the few
> options you had left- or you might have to rely on the hardcopy
> braille books the NLS provides. Do you see my point? The problem of
> expensive braille displays, and getting them with little or no income,
> will be there no matter if we're using bookshare or blio to get our
> braille books.
>
> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ashley,
>> You're supposed to return a cd from learning ally-I think I still
>> have some old ones from years ago hiding in my room somewhere, and
>> noone's so much as sent me a notice so I'm not sure how much that's
>> actually enforced. NLS enforces that policy pretty good-except there
>> aren't fines or anything for lost books...they just put it in as
>> "lost" in their files and that's the end of that. Don't ask me how I
>> know...suffice it to say that, were I a user of regular libraries, I'd
>> have a lot less money to play with. *grin* So no, the return
>> policies aren't exactly the same, at least as they're enforced in real
>> life. Oh-and for the record, my days of losing library books ended a
>> long time ago. Mostly.
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Kevin,
>>> There are some textbooks for which bookshare isn't all that
>>> practical. For instance, I took a logic class last semester where
>>> they used all sorts of symbols that aren't in any braille code...I
>>> kind of had to make my own personal logic-braille. (which I mostly
>>> used on paper because there just weren't symbols in the braille code
>>> for what I needed) Bookshare couldn't handle those kinds of books.
>>> From my understanding, Mike was talking about the technical aspect
>>> more than the legal aspect. (i.e, rendering books like my logic book
>>> accessible in electronic braille). Mike, am I understanding you
>>> wrong?
>>> Best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 5/25/11, Kevin Fjelsted <kfjelsted at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I actually don't think it would take any new laws.
>>>> I think the department of education could write the regulations for this
>>>> based on existing law.
>>>> The federal government is great and producing basketful's of paper
>>>> regulations.
>>>> The key is that the disability funding has a major share that comes from
>>>> the
>>>> federal government.
>>>> So if the department of education and the other agencies combined there
>>>> efforts around funding and states that disability services ors need to
>>>> provide to a central location the title and contents of any books that
>>>> they
>>>> need to convert.
>>>> The department of education doesn't need to build another database or
>>>> storage structure because they already fund a major part of BookShare.
>>>> -Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 25, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Mike Freeman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Kevin: How would such a law be implemented in the case of technical
>>>>> materials? Seems to me we have a way to go before imposing such
>>>>> strictures
>>>>> on DSS departments, much as these would be desirable in the abstract.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>> sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 25, 2011, at 13:39, Kevin Fjelsted <kfjelsted at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Where we could exude some real leverage as an organization would be to
>>>>>> work to have the U.S. department of Education require that any
>>>>>> University
>>>>>> or School that receives federal funding for any aspect of disability
>>>>>> services upload a quality copy of any book that the institution's DS
>>>>>> department creates to BookShare.
>>>>>> Remember that initially BookShare was a sharing point where books
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be scanned and uploaded by volunteers.
>>>>>> The infrastructure seems be well developed for central storage and
>>>>>> cataloging of accessible books.
>>>>>> Since the U.S. Department Of Education is providing quite a bit of
>>>>>> funding to BookShare and the federal government is providing huge
>>>>>> funding
>>>>>> to disability services this process if mandated by the federal
>>>>>> government
>>>>>> could take all the individual DS efforts across institutions and
>>>>>> insure
>>>>>> that there is a central catalog for books that have been converted as
>>>>>> well as the actual book itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Furthermore if institutions were required to only adopt books that are
>>>>>> available in accessible format or loose there federal disability
>>>>>> funding
>>>>>> then the publishers would be lining up to put there books on
>>>>>> BookShare.
>>>>>> I would certainly rather have BookShare manage the content and provide
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> common format that we can use across the various devices and
>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>> software apps then have to hunt all over the internet for it and pray
>>>>>> that I can find an accessible version.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are a long way from accessible book readers chiefly because there
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> not enough teeth in the laws and regulations to force the momentum to
>>>>>> create accessible material.
>>>>>> -Kevin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 25, 2011, at 3:23 PM, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>> I think you miss the point. We still need an accessible library of
>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>> via NLS or bookshare.
>>>>>>> Sighted people can borrow books at the library or buy them used or
>>>>>>> cheap
>>>>>>> online. Anyone else can buy a paperbook that is very cheap. Yes
>>>>>>> novels
>>>>>>> are easily rendered accessible. But I don't think many ebook readers
>>>>>>> are accessible.
>>>>>>> Have you forgotten the protest against Amozon kindle because they
>>>>>>> silenced speech?
>>>>>>> I heard that the Barnes & Nobel ebook reader is not accessible. And
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> personal example, my library has ebooks too.
>>>>>>> But at Nova, Ashley can't use them because they're pdf files. Jaws
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> only reading the title, not the entire page!
>>>>>>> Now this is unequal access. I say keep NLS and Learning Ally. If
>>>>>>> ebook
>>>>>>> readers were actually accessible, then we can think about eliminating
>>>>>>> what you call preferential treatment.
>>>>>>> As it stands now, I got to pay, yes pay a reader, to read the ebooks
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> myriad of paper sources because those are not accessible to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 3:24 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And
>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>>> One other thing I didn't catch from your last email. If access to
>>>>>>> novels from mainstream sources is pretty straightforward, why do we
>>>>>>> still insist on getting these novels from bookshare and learning ally
>>>>>>> for free? I'd personally like it if NLS implimented some sort of
>>>>>>> delete timer in to their downloads like lots of other digital ebook
>>>>>>> lending libraries do. (overdrive anyone?) But if we can read our
>>>>>>> novels in braille through ibooks or blio, where we can buy them
>>>>>>> honestly, why do we still demand getting these novels from bookshare
>>>>>>> or learning ally for free? Sounds like preferential treatment to me,
>>>>>>> at least with books that aren't textbooks.
>>>>>>> Warmly,
>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>>>> Fair enough. I was a bit too bold and am probably a bit too
>>>>>>>> optomistic-I'll defer to you on that front. And scientific/math
>>>>>>>> notation has always been a problem with electronic braille, hasn't
>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>> I think that's one area where paper braille, for all its annoyances,
>>>>>>>> will probably always be superior, barring some crazy new inovation
>>>>>>>> making braille displays bigger and representing tactile graphics
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> the braille pins or something. It'll need to be that drastic, I
>>>>>>>> think, to make rendering of graphics in refreshable braille even
>>>>>>>> comparable to paper braille with embossers and so forth...so we'll
>>>>>>>> probably be grappling with that issue for a long time, regardless of
>>>>>>>> what happens to bookshare. I certainly wouldn't trust a math or
>>>>>>>> science textbook from bookshare-they've had problems enough with
>>>>>>>> literary braille.
>>>>>>>> I see your point about brand names. But when one of those brands is
>>>>>>>> owned and operated by the NFB, I feel a lot more comfortable about
>>>>>>>> that brand providing braille support. It's not a guarantee of
>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>> (I've honestly been a bit disappointed with the blio so far) but it
>>>>>>>> makes me feel pretty comfortable that blio will get better and
>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>> access will improve. I hope the good people at KNFB don't
>>>>>>>> disappoint-the NFB's set a pretty good precedent for accessibility
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> far and it'd be a shame if Blio doesn't hit the mark.
>>>>>>>> Warmly,
>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/25/11, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I see it, we need to get access to e-books, and there are some
>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>> happening that hold great promise. I think that giving us access
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> novel, for
>>>>>>>>> example, is probably pretty straight-forward in most cases. We
>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>> access
>>>>>>>>> to E-texts to even have a chance at accessing more mainstream
>>>>>>>>> titles,
>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>> not suggesting that this isn't important.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is a lot up in the air yet with respect to scientific and
>>>>>>>>> math
>>>>>>>>> notation and how information in drawings should be conveyed. This
>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> be that
>>>>>>>>> important for leisure reading, but it is very important in
>>>>>>>>> textbooks.
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps it will evolve that organizations such as Learning Ally
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> concentrate on making
>>>>>>>>> the various drawings accessible. They might then create a final
>>>>>>>>> product
>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>> merging their special representation of drawings with the text that
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>> available. I think we may have a harder time forcing publishers to
>>>>>>>>> create
>>>>>>>>> accessible drawings because that goes a bit further than just
>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> same text
>>>>>>>>> and making it available in another format.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My second reason for hanging back on this is that all of the tools
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> name
>>>>>>>>> are brand names, products of a specific company. We don't know
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> sort
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> availability of accessible texts will be maintained over time. The
>>>>>>>>> industry
>>>>>>>>> is new, and we don't know a lot yet about consistency. What if
>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> displaying text catches on in five years and the approach used is
>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> make accessible. My point isn't that there isn't reason to have
>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>> hope,
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> rather that we need to base those services we decide we no longer
>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> what is there now and not on what we think will be the case
>>>>>>>>> eventually.
>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>> 1997 or so, Adobe made a committment, due in part to pressure, to
>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> Acrobat Reader accessible. Even with their efforts, our governor
>>>>>>>>> yesterday
>>>>>>>>> released statements using PDF documents that were not accessible.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> never have thought in 1997 that there would still be inaccessible
>>>>>>>>> PDF's
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> 2011. We justneed to be cautious when predicting where technology
>>>>>>>>> goes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 May 2011 11:42:15 -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Steve and Mike,
>>>>>>>>>> You're the technology people here, so I won't argue this too hard.
>>>>>>>>>> But are my statements about braille access to textbooks premature?
>>>>>>>>>> Isn't that kind of a huge reason why we're making the Blio reader
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> working with Amazon on their Kindel? Are you saying that an ebook
>>>>>>>>>> reader, produced in part by the NFB, which is free, will not
>>>>>>>>>> become
>>>>>>>>>> more accessible and will not support braille access? That seems a
>>>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>>>>> silly to me. What about websites like coursesmart? You guys know
>>>>>>>>>> more about this than I do but it seems to me that we're moving
>>>>>>>>>> fast
>>>>>>>>>> towards access to mainstream books in braille.
>>>>>>>>>> Steve, I'd submit that we'd need the expensive technology to read
>>>>>>>>>> electronic braille, with or without bookshare. If we want to read
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> bookshare file in electronic braille, we need one of those
>>>>>>>>>> expensive
>>>>>>>>>> braille displays or notetakers-we'd need the exact same technology
>>>>>>>>>> setup to read a mainstream braille book through Blio or
>>>>>>>>>> coursesmart
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> (I still think before too long) the Kindel. We'd just have to pay
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> same price for our books the sighted have to pay-if we don't have
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> money, maybe that's an insentive to start working or, at the very
>>>>>>>>>> least, better manage our precious SSI.
>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/11, Liz Bottner <liziswhatis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> TO my knowledge, book publishers are actually partnering with
>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> make their books available and accessible. I do think that
>>>>>>>>>>> quality
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> BKS
>>>>>>>>>>> books has improved over the years.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Liz Bottner
>>>>>>>>>>> Guiding Eyes Graduate Council
>>>>>>>>>>> GEB Voicemail: 800-942-0149 Ext. 2531
>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail:
>>>>>>>>>>> liziswhatis at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Visit my LiveJournal:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/lizbot
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>> Of Sally Thomas
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:20 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And
>>>>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There really needs to be some entity that is REQUIRED to produce
>>>>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>>>>> textbooks. That process is a bit different than the process need
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> translate novels into braille. I think it's great that more and
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>> are easily accessible with the new technology available, but it
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> foolish to assume that publishers are going to put accessibility
>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> designing electronic files. The NIMAC is the repository of
>>>>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>>>>> textbook files. Textbook companies are required to make K-12
>>>>>>>>>>> textbooks
>>>>>>>>>>> accessible.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps there is a more streamlined way to get good braille in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> blind students than using Bookshare but there needs to be a
>>>>>>>>>>> dedicated
>>>>>>>>>>> process for producing quality braille.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sally Thomas
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Kirt Manwaring" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 11:28 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And
>>>>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing (I hate double posting, but I sure do it a lot),
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe I was being just a bit too bold-we're not quite to the
>>>>>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>>>>> where mainstream ebooks are as accessible as bookshare files or
>>>>>>>>>>> RFB&D
>>>>>>>>>>> audiobooks...but we're moving there fast. I don't think it'll be
>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>> long until you can read a Kindle book or a Blio book on your
>>>>>>>>>>> notetaker
>>>>>>>>>>> or smart phone with braille display. The technology's out there,
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> just needs to be developed and put to use a little bit more-and
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> trend's already started with Apple and Blio. But it won't be too
>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>> until reading a mainstream ebook in braille, on any platform we
>>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> read electronic braille now, will be as saemless and practical as
>>>>>>>>>>> using bookshare. When that happens (and it's certainly not far
>>>>>>>>>>> off),
>>>>>>>>>>> I suspect we'll have an interesting philosophical debate on our
>>>>>>>>>>> hands...and you all better know where I'll stand after my last
>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>> posts. *grin* And now, for me, I don't need bookshare anymore
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>> ebooks for free I should buy and I feel like Learning Ally books
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> probably the same because of Audible (although audible's library
>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>> as extensive for textbooks), and I feel a little guilty every
>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> download a learning ally book for free that I should buy, just
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> every sighted person out there has to buy audiobooks instead of
>>>>>>>>>>> getting them on a silver platter
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm done now,
>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>>>>>>>> More and more sighted people are reading ebooks instead of going
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> libraries or buying them hardcopy. The ability to read
>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream
>>>>>>>>>>>> ebooks in braille, not just on apple devices but on computers
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> probably notetakers before too long, is expanding at a
>>>>>>>>>>>> tremendous
>>>>>>>>>>>> rate! If we want to borrow a hardcopy book, we should use a
>>>>>>>>>>>> library
>>>>>>>>>>>> like everyone else does. If we want to buy a hard copy braille
>>>>>>>>>>>> book
>>>>>>>>>>>> we should use a book store (ala NBP), just like sighted people
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> buy hardcopy books if they want to keep them. Maybe it's a
>>>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to see if government can subsidize NBP and similar
>>>>>>>>>>>> bookstores
>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>> we have to pay the same price as everyone else. But if we want
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>> an ebook to keep, we should have to buy it. Just like everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>> else.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And the technology to read ebooks in braille (not just on apple
>>>>>>>>>>>> devices, but with a braille display and a computer) is already
>>>>>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>>>>>> and expanding fast! Can somebody tell me why, if we want to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> treated equally, we're clinging to free ebooks when we have
>>>>>>>>>>>> options
>>>>>>>>>>>> (again, not just apple!), to buy our ebooks just like everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>>>>>> and read them with braille displays? If that's not hippocricy,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly don't know what is.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't mean to insult anyone, offend anyone, or hurt anyone's
>>>>>>>>>>>> feelings. But I obviously feel pretty strongly about
>>>>>>>>>>>> this-please
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't take my passion as a personal attack.
>>>>>>>>>>>> With respect,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well said. I agree with those statements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about it that way as well. What do sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> when they want a new book? They go to the public library, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Borders or some other book store. Sometimes they go on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> order hard copy books.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We, however, do not get hard copy braille books very easily.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> many books are "made" (I mean specifically made, not just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> embossed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the common people) for distribution. But we need equal access
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> books, so we get all these different formats in which we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think he is confused about the term equal access. It doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that *everyone* needs to buy an iPad or whatever and download
>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just like the sighted people do. It means that we can have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> choices as the sighted people. Equal access, equal choices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't want to read our books on an Apple device, we shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> forced to, and if we want to read all our books on iPhones,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is our choice as well, but we shouldn't have choices taken away
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> us in the guise of equal access. Are all sighted people going
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch over to reading their books on their Apple divices? No.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> us. That just doesn't seem right to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure I'm completely crazy in saying all these random
>>>>>>>>>>>>> things,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> find this is my opinion. Sorry for subjecting you to my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rambles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Brice Smith <brice.smith319 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Besides the undercurrent of Apple snobbery here ("It seems to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many others who have embraced the integrated access of Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> products,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that some quarters of the visually impaired community desire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access without equal responsibility,) I have one MAJOR,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundamental
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem with this article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ":
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those who may argue that, given the high percentage of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired individuals with low or limited incomes, they simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afford to purchase books, I have two questions. First, what of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sighted individuals who are in similar circumstances? The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unemployment rate continues at high levels, and I'm sure many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who are currently facing hard times would love a treasure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trove
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free books at their fingertips. Why don't we open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NLS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up to these unfortunates?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sighted individuals do have a treasure trove of free books at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disposal. It's called the public library, Josh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, I treat BookShare like a library, in that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delete what I download when I'm finished reading. I'm sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users of BookShare and NLS keep everything they download, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not mind at all if Bookshare or NLS encouraged and moved
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> towards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> model of renting and borrowing as opposed to downloading and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, BookShare is my treasure trove and rental service for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the public library is the treasure trove and rental service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted individuals.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Guys:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I came across an interesting editorial/article written by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Josh
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DeLioncourt from lioncourt.com/the Maccessibility Network and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get your thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article discusses the future of NLS and Bookshare and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ebooks. It suggests that as visually impaired/blind people we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try to move towards a future of reading/purchasing Ebooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream sources such as the Amazon Kindle, Audible.com,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ibooks and that blindness-specific sources such as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bookshare.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the NLS library service should go away.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just for discussion sake what are your thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you see NLS and Bookshare completely going away in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just for what it's worth, here are my thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While mainstream sources are great, what about braille and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> literacy? You can't use a braille display to read Kindle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Audible books are audio so no braille there. As far as I know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct me if I'm wrong) you can't read Ibooks with a braille
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either. I for one love Bookshare because you can download the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BRF files and read them in braille on either a braille
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notetaker. You can also get hardcopy braille books from NLS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about those who do not like the voice used by the Amazon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kindle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the Samantha voice on the Iphone? I for one hate those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voices
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading book purposes...I've tried and just can't get into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about seniors just losing their vision? Though I hope as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people get into technology as possible you have to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer savvy to work the kindle PC software and the Ibooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Iphone/Ipod touch/Ipad is all touchscreen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts...I would be very very sad if NLS and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hHere is the article...just thought I'd bring this up for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purposes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kerri
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crossroads: Rekindling the Accessible Ebook Discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Josh de Lioncourt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A few weeks ago, I read a question posed by someone on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rekindled a line of thought I have had on and off for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years. In essence, the question was this: "We have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> National Library Service, and other similar resources. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> care about the accessibility of eBook platforms like iBooks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kindle,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adobe Digital Editions, etc?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the surface, this question, which has been posed by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with whom I've been acquainted, appears to be a pragmatic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> digs a little deeper, however, it becomes an illustration of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alarming attitude, often an unconscious one, throughout the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before exploring that aspect, though, let's take a quick look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few of the strictly practical answers that can be given to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .In general, books released in printed form are now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simultaneously
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> available in digital formats. This provides readers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access to material, be it for pleasure, education, or work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same time as their sighted counterparts. This is rarely the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> publications offered through many of the resources aimed at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> providing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> materials in accessible formats.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Many of the resources which provide accessible materials are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understandably required to obtain medical proof of disability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their users before they are able to gain access to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provided. Some users may be unwilling or unable to jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hoops, or find it a violation of privacy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Some services require expensive, unwieldy, or otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or inefficient equipment to access their content. By
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contrast,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commercial solutions like Apple's iBooks and Amazon's Kindle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access to their content across a variety of mainstream
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including mobile phones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Some resources of accessible content, (i.e. BookShare.org),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recurring fee for the service. For avid readers who consume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of books each year, this is undoubtedly a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost-efficient
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution. For those who read only occasionally, however, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prove
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far more costly than purchasing books from a digital
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retailer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Many books are never made available in accessible formats
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bodies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is by no means an exhaustive list of practical reasons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired user may prefer access to a digital e-book
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but it does provide a sample of the variety of such reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution will ever work for all users, and that must be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kept
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind when topics such as this are discussed or debated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a far more important issue that this subject raises,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is best expressed in the form of a question: "As visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people, what is it we desire most: equal access, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preferential
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treatment?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Several years ago, this was not nearly as legitimate of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Services like NLS and BookShare provided materials that were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible to those with visual impairments or other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a manner that was equivalent to public libraries.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the ever increasing ubiquity of the Internet, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> availability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and usage of public libraries around the globe has fallen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharply.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Research can be done far more efficiently online, where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wealth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information is virtually limitless and growing all the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WikiPedia article outlines the basic statistics of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decline
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> library use over the last twenty years. As far back as 2001,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> college students felt it made more sense to obtain the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they needed online than by visiting a physical library.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The majority of information online is, of course, far more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the visually impaired have ever had access to in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technological advances, if any, have had such a profound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality of life for visually impaired individuals, and you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> none who would argue that point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the decline of libraries as a research tool has come the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decline
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of their usage as a source of books consumed for pleasure as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ask
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself this: how many sighted readers do you know who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regularly,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively, obtain books for a local public library to read.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer will be very few, if any. These days, most avid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase books to read, just like any other form of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entertainment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media such as music or movies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While the usefulness of services like NLS or BookShare.org in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passed is undeniable, their necessity is waning in the wake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible mainstream sources of materials such as iBooks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inkling,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Audible.com. Though services providing accessible content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with disabilities may still be the best, or in some cases the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution for some users today, we should be actively moving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toward
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future of equal access with our sighted peers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems to me, and many others who have embraced the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access of Apple products, that some quarters of the visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community desire equal access without equal responsibility,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when regards written material. Do we, the visually impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase music like everyone else? Do we buy DVD's like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we pay for Coca-Colas at the corner store or our lattes at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> StarBucks? Why not our books as well? Is the entertainment or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educational value of a novel by Stephen King or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on programming C++so low that we feel it isn't worth as much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the latest album by Lady Gaga or a course at the local
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> college?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those who may argue that, given the high percentage of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired individuals with low or limited incomes, they simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afford to purchase books, I have two questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, what of all of the sighted individuals who are in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> circumstances? The unemployment rate continues at high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure many of those who are currently facing hard times would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> love a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treasure trove of free books at their fingertips. Why don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org or NLS up to these unfortunates?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second, what about all the funds wasted, be it by individuals
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government agencies, on access technology which is less
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream solutions? For example, the GW Micro BookSense is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in $349 USD and $499 USD varieties. It allows visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to read books in electronic format and listen to audio books
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> music.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How is this a better value than, for example, an iPod touch,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provides the same functionality, plus Internet access, email,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of thousands of applications to extend its capabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just $229 USD? This isn't even to mention the fact that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iPod
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be connected to a Braille display, has significantly more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> storage,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a battery warranty that is twice the length of what users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the BookSense. Wouldn't money saved by integrated solutions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be better spent compensating the authors of useful or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entertaining
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books for their hard work?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it not the height of hypocrisy that the visually impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wastes not a moment in lambasting, (even suing), companies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lack of accessibility in its Kindle products, and yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion that we begin moving away from having the majority
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> printed materials handed over for free?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We, the visually impaired community, are rapidly approaching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crossroads. It is time to prove that we have the courage of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convictions. Will we be worthy of equal access, and by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extension
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities? Or will we squander the chance to put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ourselves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal footing with the sighted world by an unwillingness to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> move
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward with society, and a misplaced sense of entitlement?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know which outcome I'm hoping for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gma
>>>>>>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brice Smith
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> North Carolina State University, Communication - Public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Relations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co
>>>>>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Julie McG
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opera
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guiding
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eyes for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> eternal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> life."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma
>>>>>>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>> l.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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