[nabs-l] Blindness vs. Other Minority Groups

[Ashley Bramlett]

social norms are part of what holds a society together. And the things we 
are discussing with respect to blind people are observed across race, 
genders, and religions. We have ideas about how to talk, our paralanguage, 
how to dress, eating manners, and how to greet each other. Based on the 
behaviorI've seen, I think some blind people could sure benefit from 
learning manners as Tara suggested earlier.

Also, I'll add you have subcultures and norms within groups. How do we know 
those? Sighted people learn by observation. I mean norms of informal vs 
formal, unspoken rules of what to discuss or not discuss, how to dress and 
sit, etc.
I guess the best way is to ask and observe with our other senses. The norms 
in a church are different than a party; and norms vary even from church to 
church as an example.

As for the norms of the  dinner table, IMO its already informal. Go to an 
average restaurant like Five Guys, TGI fridays, or Olive Garden. Many places 
don't have the fancy silverware, cloth tables, and folded cloth napkins that 
are indicative of a formal dining experience. People dress very casually. As 
my father said, you often don't have to dress up to go out to dinner now, 
its becoming a casual society. Another example, ten years ago, my 
grandmother's retirement facility expected nice dress for dinner; men in a 
nice suit or coat and tie. For women, something dressy like a skirt, slacks 
and blouse. Now, the dress is more casual.

As for dinner manners, we still use silverware as a culture even at fast 
food restaurants, but the way we eat seems more relaxed. I mean how many 
people always put their napkin in their lap? How many people eat with the 
right fork for salad? How many people even wipe off their hands well after 
eating? These are typical manners at dinner, especially a public restaurant.
As a society, we have gotten more relaxed about norms.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Marc Workman
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness vs. Other Minority Groups

Sean wrote,
it seems to me that, when you get right down to it, a whole lot of what we
deem acceptable and unacceptable  - a large part of the foundation of our
society - is based on nothing more than a general approval or disapproval of
it among the populous, and, if you feel that we ought not to be telling
blind kids not to rock or bob, there are a whole slew of other things we
ought not to be telling folks in general to do or not do.

I think you're right that the argument potentially has far-reaching 
implications.  I'm not sure that this isn't a good thing though.  Part of 
what drives my thinking is seeing an analogy with the experiences of other 
minorities.  I said a bit about race, but I think gender works as well. 
Consider the example of a woman not shaving her legs.  This is something 
that can cause discomfort and even disgust among men and women alike.  I 
think it's a fairly well-entrenched social norm that women will shave their 
legs, particularly when wearing shorts or skirts.  Now if a woman who 
chooses not to shave her legs has significantly diminished social and 
professional opportunities as a result, this just strikes me as wrong.  And 
the solution isn't to get the woman to shave her legs, it's to break down 
the rigidity of the norm.  Extending that further, if a person with male 
biology chooses to dress the way women typically dress, that person is more 
likely to be socially isolated, to have limited professional opportunities, 
to experience physical and verbal abuse, and to contemplate and attempt 
suicide.  This again strikes me as obviously wrong, and the fault is with 
the rigidity of the gender norms and their overt and subtle enforcement.  So 
I would say that many of our social norms ought to be challenged and broken 
down.  Wether eating salad with ones hands is among these, I can't really 
say.  Some social norms are not strictly a matter of convention; they are 
based on health concerns.  It may be that eating with one's hands increases 
the likelihood of spreading germs and disease and can be discouraged on 
those grounds.  Personally, though, I think a little relaxation of the norms 
around the dinner table wouldn't be a terrible thing.

The use of the phrase "foundation of our society" makes me wonder if it 
isn't being suggested that social norms are necessary for a society to exist 
or function.  I really don't know.  It seems likely that we need to share in 
common at least some expectations about how others will behave.  But I am 
really confident that at least some norms do serious damage and ought to be 
challenged, and I'm pretty confident that it would be better for everyone if 
most norms were at least relaxed.  Among these, I would include the sorts of 
ones related to blindness that we've been discussing.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2011-11-20, at 3:52 PM, Sean Whalen wrote:

> I have been reading threw the portion of this thread related to concealing
> aspects of oneself and/or changing behavior to fit into the mold of what 
> is
> considered "normal" by society. It is a very interesting question, and I
> find the arguments advanced by Marc and Arielle quite persuasive. I can't,
> however, shake the feeling that blind kids should be discouraged from
> rocking or engaging in other behavior that is considered outside the
> mainstream.
>
>
>
> First, let me say, I couldn't agree more that the call for blind folks to
> hide their eyes if they look abnormal is misguided, and, frankly, fairly
> offensive. I am 100% on board with the notion that we need not, and in 
> fact
> should not, hide part of what and who we are simply for the comfort or
> convenience of others. If somebody wants to wear sunglasses that is 
> entirely
> their decision, and there is absolutely no problem with it, but nobody 
> ought
> to be suggesting that anybody do so for anybody else's benefit.
>
>
>
> Regarding the question of so called "blindisms," I tend to agree with Greg
> that we have precious little choice but to be pragmatic about the issue 
> and
> dissuade blind folks from rocking, poking, etc., if we want them to be set
> up to compete and succeed socially and professionally. I might cede the
> point that, in an ideal world, folks wouldn't be judged on such ultimately
> inconsequential attributes. However, if I were to grant this point, I 
> would
> do so with some reluctance. How far does this go by logical extension? 
> What
> if I like to eat my pasta and salad with my hands rather than a fork and
> knife? Should people just accept that and move on, or is there some real
> value in conforming to social norms there? The same question could just as
> easily be asked regarding a sighted child who prefers to eat with his 
> hands.
> Is that Ok? Would an ideal society accept that as something that harms
> nobody; merely a personal preference to be respected? I don't see how the
> answer to the former can be "yes," and the latter "no." Maybe that's Ok, 
> but
> it seems to me that, when you get right down to it, a whole lot of what we
> deem acceptable and unacceptable  - a large part of the foundation of our
> society - is based on nothing more than a general approval or disapproval 
> of
> it among the populous, and, if you feel that we ought not to be telling
> blind kids not to rock or bob, there are a whole slew of other things we
> ought not to be telling folks in general to do or not do.
>
>
>
> Finally, related to nonverbal communication, you won't catch me dropping 
> fat
> cash on modeling classes in the hopes of appropriately arching my eyebrows
> at just the right moment, but I think the basics are important. As has 
> been
> said, many facial expressions are built in. I have never been taught how 
> to
> look happy, sad, or irritated, but when I feel it, I look it. Perhaps this
> is different for everybody, but some basic animation in the face seems to
> come pretty naturally. And, for the record, I have never seen a face.
>
>
>
> Facing somebody when in conversation and shaking hands when introduced 
> would
> seem to fall into the realm of common courtesy. They're social norms, to 
> be
> sure, but I see absolutely no reason that blind individuals shouldn't be
> expected to adopt these norms like anybody else. I am not saying that
> anybody has argued that we shouldn't be expected to do so, but we should. 
> If
> I meet somebody and they don't offer a hand, barring some obvious reason 
> not
> to, it seems rude. This ties back into the above point that once we accept
> that some people will rock, etc., we might have to accept a lot of other
> actions, or lacks of action, based on the same rationale.
>
>
>
> Take care,
>
>
>
> Sean
>
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