[nabs-l] a great article

[Kirt Manwaring]

Ashley,
  I didn't really mind him sharing it, either.  I'll stay, kind of.
Every once in a while, something comes up that makes all the silly
back and forth rhetoric actually worth it.  But only every once in a
while, so I'll only be on here every now and again.
  Take care,
Kirt

On 9/5/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> ,
> I hope you'll stay; sometimes I'm frustrated by arguing, but I just hit the
> delete key then. For spam I ignore it.
> To me, this list has been one of the best resources. As to the article, it
> had some good tips, but they were
> generic, still I did not mind him sharing it.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirt Manwaring
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:29 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a great article
>
> Hey all,
>   It's been a while and I really don't have a lot to say, except
> there's a good reason I've stopped spending much time on here and all
> these silly debates, arguing for the sake of arguing and sparking
> controversy for controversy's sake, just don't really appeal to me
> much anymore.  I'd rather live a real life, you know?  Some of us have
> those.
>   Chris, I know you were trying to share good ways of getting involved
> in any organization.  The suggestions here are things I can use in my
> local political party, my church, the county lions' club, student
> organizations on campus, etc.  They're a bit generic and vague, and I
> suspect the people who want to be involved in any organization are
> already...well, getting involved, but I suppose the bit of practical
> advice in here can be useful to someone who wants to work in any
> established organized movement.
>   Anyways I'm tired of arguing semantics.  I'm irritated that people
> get their panties in such a twist when someone else shares an opinion
> contrary to their own.  This list is not simply for NFB propaganda,
> but, with all the assorted spam and forwards and shouting matches that
> really serve no purpose whatsoever, I find myself growing tired of it.
>   I guess this is goodbye till next time, folks.  If I ever see
> something on here worth spending my time on (I'm starting to think
> it's not really likely), I'll chime in.  In the meantime, have fun
> with the list.
>   Cheers,
> Kirt
>
> On 9/2/11, David Dodge <daviddod at buffalo.edu> wrote:
>> Heather and Chris,
>> A few things. First, Chris saying that the article he posted is a great
>> article is his opinion and anyone that dislikes the article has every
>> right
>> to that opinion also. I don't think we should shun anyone for their
>> personal
>> opinion on anything.
>>
>> Personally, I like making connections between organizations and seeing how
>> they are alike and different. I do not feel as though Chris put this out
>> there to try and change anyone's core philosophy. Instead, I think he
>> meant
>> it has some basic introductory information that some people on this list
>> will find useful and others wont.
>>
>> Heather, I'm going to call out something specific that you said and hope
>> you
>> will not be offended by my doing so. It's just its something I see a lot
>> of
>> people do on a variety of listservs that I have an issue with. I don't
>> think
>> we should ever try to quantify a listserv. "most people" on a certain
>> listserv "people on this listserv do or don't want to hear".
>>
>> What we have to remember is we actually don't know the full extent of the
>> listserv. For instance, I have given this listserv to a number of friends
>> and colleagues of mine whom are not very active within NFB but love this
>> for
>> the information they get. Another important thing to remember is the
>> responses we see are not necessarily indicative of the large whole on a
>> listserv. I am part of some listservs that I have never responded to and
>> part of some that I respond to more than I have on this one. I'll stop
>> rambling, I just don't like quantifying a sample that I am unsure about.
>>
>> I don't feel like I've done myself justice in this response but hopefully
>> it
>> gave someone, somewhere, something to think about. Haha. Have a wonderful
>> weekend, everyone.
>>
>> David
>> ----------------------------------
>> David Dodge
>> Doctoral Degree Granting Institutions Rep.
>> State University of New York Student Assembly
>> English Major
>> University at Buffalo
>> 306 Clemens Hall
>> Buffalo, NY 14260
>> daviddod at buffalo.edu
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Heather Field
>> <missheather at comcast.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Chris,
>>> I can't imagine what could persuade you that the article you pasted is
>>> great. It's just a glorified list of things to do once you've established
>>> why you are in an organisation and what the organisation is trying to
>>> achieve. If one doesn't know the, why, of one's membership, and one
>>> doesn't
>>> know the, what the organisation does, then one will not be motivated to
>>> get
>>> involved.
>>>
>>> A person who is well informed on the why and what of the ACB, a condition
>>> that doesn't develop by reading their literature incidentally, rarely
>>> discovers much consistency of philosophy or purpose, beyond opposing the
>>> NFB. Occasionally there is good colaboration on a state or local level,
>>> but
>>> that is not thanks to national policy, nor from diplomatic forays by
>>> either
>>> organisation. It occurs when mutual interests of local blind people can
>>> be
>>> best served by working together. In my experience, once immediate goals
>>> are
>>> achieved, while people remain friends, NFB people don't suddenly rush off
>>> and spend lots of time working with the ACB. After all, an organisation
>>> actually has to, "do", something if people are to do it with you.
>>>
>>> I find myself wondering why, if you've got all this time to be poring
>>> through ACB literature and then editing and posting it on NFB lists, why
>>> you
>>> don't use it more constructively and get involved in physically making a
>>> difference with the NFB in your local area.
>>>
>>> Chris, most of the people who frequent the NFB email lists have signed up
>>> because they're very committed members of the NFB and have made their
>>> decision based on the facts as they see them. You may find the occasional
>>> article which you think is useful. However, the fact remains that the two
>>> organisations differ on fundamental, philosophical and practical issues.
>>> You're not going to change anyone's mind on this list by posting to do
>>> lists. Those of us who work on the front lines of changing what it means
>>> to
>>> be blind have learned that it is not what one does, as demonstrated by
>>> the
>>> myriad different ways chapters and affiliates engage their communities to
>>> change what it means to be blind. It's why, one does these things. It is
>>> the
>>> why that colours every interaction with the public and one's fellow
>>> members.
>>> Someone who truly knows why will be involved. You can't hold them back.
>>> Telling people how, to get involved skips the, why should I question.
>>>
>>> I'm not the moderator but I am letting you know that there are a bunch of
>>> people on this list who find your posting of ACB stuff just plain
>>> annoying.
>>> Like you, we could subscribe to the Forum if we wanted to read it. But,
>>> we
>>> don't subscribe because we don't want to read it Chris.
>>>
>>> Do you imagine that those in charge of the liberal website Move
>>> on.orgwould post press releases from the T party and encourage
>>> subscribers
>>> to try
>>> to embrace the good bits of the ideology? We're mostly all too busy doing
>>> the real work of the NFB to bother reading the literature of the
>>> organisation who spends an inordinate amount of time and energy doing
>>> nothing more useful than trying to oppose us.
>>> By the way, when you take a published article and add anything you are
>>> breaking copyright law.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Heather Field
>>>
>>> If there was a "philosophy", or "goals" or consistent national, state and
>>> local consistency to learn about in the organisation from which you
>>> lifted
>>> the article, then perhaps, and only perhaps, that may have been useful.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:02 PM
>>> To: NABS list ; Blind Talk list ; Gary Legates
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] a great article
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> As I try to learn more about both organizations, I have
>>> subscribed to both the Braille Monitor and the Braille Forum.
>>> The Monitor, as you know, is the Federation (NFB's)  publication
>>> and the Forum is the Council (or ACB's) publication.  I found a
>>> great article in July's Forum entitled "Fifteen Ways to Maximize
>>> your ACB Membership," giving fifteen tips on how to take
>>> advantage of all ACB (or any organization, for that matter) has
>>> to offer.  I think this could also apply to the Federation and to
>>> NABS or any other special-interest division, and is some good
>>> advice.  To be accurate, I added "or NFB" in parentheses to some
>>> parts of the article.  I have pasted the article below.  Any
>>> thoughts on this? I promise I'm not trying to force the ACB down
>>> your throats; in fact, I'm a Federationist in nature, but want to
>>> learn about both.  Here is the article.
>>>
>>> 15 WAYS TO MAXIMIZE YOUR ACB (or NFB) MEMBERSHIP
>>>  by Kenneth Semien Sr.
>>>  All too often, people join organizations without taking
>>> advantage of the opportunity to truly know intricate details of
>>> its purpose,
>>> mission, and operating practices.  This can very well result in a
>>> lack of
>>> participation and could ultimately result in a decision to
>>> forfeit what
>>> could have been the ideal vehicle to enhance your life, build
>>> great
>>> relationships and effectively share personal skills and abilities
>>> that can
>>> make an enormous difference.  In an effort to encourage you to
>>> explore the
>>> meaningful efforts of ACB, I have included the tips listed below
>>> to assist
>>> you in being all you can be and help you join with others whose
>>> skills
>>> complement yours.
>>>  1.  Be inquisitive and don't hesitate to ask questions.
>>>  2.  Become familiar with the history, mission, and purpose by
>>> reviewing it often enough to be able to repeat it to others.  In
>>> turn
>>> someone may realize that this is the organization they have been
>>> looking
>>> for.
>>>  3.  Make a personal commitment to identify ways to get
>>> involved.
>>>  4.  Find out who the officers are and become acquainted with
>>> them and their roles and responsibilities, as well as members you
>>> observe
>>> actively participating in events and projects associated with our
>>> organization.
>>>  5.  Make your skills and abilities known to leaders of your
>>> chapter, affiliate, or the president of our organization.
>>>  6.  Make every effort to participate in chapter, state
>>> affiliate
>>> and national meetings, seminars, conferences and conventions.
>>>  7.  Inquire about available committees you may be able to serve
>>> on to assist the organization in achieving its goals and
>>> objectives.  Seek
>>> to join committees that allow you to utilize your skills and
>>> abilities in
>>> the most effective and efficient manner.
>>>  8.  If you have access to the Internet, sign up for up-to-date
>>> news and announcements from all levels of our organization.  Ask
>>> a president
>>> or member to tell you how to take advantage of this option.
>>>  9.  Listen to or read publications/newsletters distributed by
>>> our
>>> organization on all levels.  This is one of the best ways to
>>> learn about
>>> useful resources, access inspirational stories, scholarships,
>>> awards, and
>>> upcoming projects and events.
>>>  10.  Identify special-interest groups that meet your personal
>>> needs.  These groups provide you the opportunity to network with
>>> others
>>> sharing common interests, such as your prior or current
>>> occupation, hobbies,
>>> health concerns and so much more.
>>>  11.  Obtain your own copy of the constitution and bylaws to
>>> learn
>>> of the agreed-upon operating practices and procedures of our
>>> organization.
>>>  12.  Prepare for future involvement as an officer by becoming
>>> familiar with officer titles and duties.
>>>  13.  Participate in conference calls to build your knowledge,
>>> such as membership focus calls, periodic Office Hours conference
>>> calls with
>>> the ACB president, committee calls, and special-interest group
>>> calls.
>>>  14.  Explore the web sites of your chapter, state affiliate and
>>> our national organization.  You may locate information on the web
>>> site that
>>> you didn't think of inquiring about.
>>>  15.  Pay your annual dues faithfully and encourage others to do
>>> the same.
>>>  The more you know and the more you become involved, the more
>>> you
>>> will begin to know that you have joined a phenomenal organization
>>> that is
>>> continuing to grow.  Have a great ACB (or NFB) adventure!
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance." -- Kenneth Jernigan (President of the National
>>> Federation of the Blind, 1968-1986.)
>>>
>>>  Visit the I C.A.N.  Foundation online at:
>>> www.icanfoundation.info for
>>> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>>> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>
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