[nabs-l] a great article

Wed Sep 7 03:31:54 UTC 2011

Hi all,
Chris, I'm glad you decided to share this article. While I didn't find
anything in it particularly special either, I think we need to be
careful not to reject a piece of writing or thought just because it
happens to come from the ACB. It is true that ACB and NFB have taken
different stances on some policy issues and that the two organizations
have very different philosophies about leadership. However, when it
comes down to it, ACB is made up of a bunch of blind folks just like
us who have decided to join together to obtain support and collective
advocacy. While I personally wouldn't join the ACB and prefer to stay
with NFB, and I don't advocate having the two organizations unite
because I think it's good for blind people to have a choice of
organizations to join, I think we do owe the ACB folks some respect
here.
Furthermore, though many of the members of this list are already
committed Federationists as Heather pointed out, some of us are still
exploring what the two organizations have to offer. Please, let's not
shoot down this exploration. I have been on this list for eleven years
and one of the things I like best about it is that we are free to
discuss our views on blindness and to examine and critique other
people's ideas-even if we don't all agree with them or even if our
personal views are unpopular. Stifling these thoughts and reflections
is likely to do more harm than good, and, I fear, to make some folks
reluctant to join us. When I was in this questioning stage myself, one
of the things that pushed me to take the plunge and join NFB was the
fact that I was encouraged to ask questions and to challenge NFB
actions that I didn't fully understand. If we get too zealous about
the superiority of NFB's views over other ways of thinking about
blindness, we risk thwarting the development of some of our future
leaders who are still deciding where NFB fits in their lives.
Best,
Arielle

On 9/5/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ashley,
>   I didn't really mind him sharing it, either.  I'll stay, kind of.
> Every once in a while, something comes up that makes all the silly
> back and forth rhetoric actually worth it.  But only every once in a
> while, so I'll only be on here every now and again.
>   Take care,
> Kirt
>
> On 9/5/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> ,
>> I hope you'll stay; sometimes I'm frustrated by arguing, but I just hit
>> the
>> delete key then. For spam I ignore it.
>> To me, this list has been one of the best resources. As to the article, it
>> had some good tips, but they were
>> generic, still I did not mind him sharing it.
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kirt Manwaring
>> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:29 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a great article
>>
>> Hey all,
>>   It's been a while and I really don't have a lot to say, except
>> there's a good reason I've stopped spending much time on here and all
>> these silly debates, arguing for the sake of arguing and sparking
>> controversy for controversy's sake, just don't really appeal to me
>> much anymore.  I'd rather live a real life, you know?  Some of us have
>> those.
>>   Chris, I know you were trying to share good ways of getting involved
>> in any organization.  The suggestions here are things I can use in my
>> local political party, my church, the county lions' club, student
>> organizations on campus, etc.  They're a bit generic and vague, and I
>> suspect the people who want to be involved in any organization are
>> already...well, getting involved, but I suppose the bit of practical
>> advice in here can be useful to someone who wants to work in any
>> established organized movement.
>>   Anyways I'm tired of arguing semantics.  I'm irritated that people
>> get their panties in such a twist when someone else shares an opinion
>> contrary to their own.  This list is not simply for NFB propaganda,
>> but, with all the assorted spam and forwards and shouting matches that
>> really serve no purpose whatsoever, I find myself growing tired of it.
>>   I guess this is goodbye till next time, folks.  If I ever see
>> something on here worth spending my time on (I'm starting to think
>> it's not really likely), I'll chime in.  In the meantime, have fun
>> with the list.
>>   Cheers,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 9/2/11, David Dodge <daviddod at buffalo.edu> wrote:
>>> Heather and Chris,
>>> A few things. First, Chris saying that the article he posted is a great
>>> article is his opinion and anyone that dislikes the article has every
>>> right
>>> to that opinion also. I don't think we should shun anyone for their
>>> personal
>>> opinion on anything.
>>>
>>> Personally, I like making connections between organizations and seeing
>>> how
>>> they are alike and different. I do not feel as though Chris put this out
>>> there to try and change anyone's core philosophy. Instead, I think he
>>> meant
>>> it has some basic introductory information that some people on this list
>>> will find useful and others wont.
>>>
>>> Heather, I'm going to call out something specific that you said and hope
>>> you
>>> will not be offended by my doing so. It's just its something I see a lot
>>> of
>>> people do on a variety of listservs that I have an issue with. I don't
>>> think
>>> we should ever try to quantify a listserv. "most people" on a certain
>>> listserv "people on this listserv do or don't want to hear".
>>>
>>> What we have to remember is we actually don't know the full extent of the
>>> listserv. For instance, I have given this listserv to a number of friends
>>> and colleagues of mine whom are not very active within NFB but love this
>>> for
>>> the information they get. Another important thing to remember is the
>>> responses we see are not necessarily indicative of the large whole on a
>>> listserv. I am part of some listservs that I have never responded to and
>>> part of some that I respond to more than I have on this one. I'll stop
>>> rambling, I just don't like quantifying a sample that I am unsure about.
>>>
>>> I don't feel like I've done myself justice in this response but hopefully
>>> it
>>> gave someone, somewhere, something to think about. Haha. Have a wonderful
>>> weekend, everyone.
>>>
>>> David
>>> ----------------------------------
>>> David Dodge
>>> Doctoral Degree Granting Institutions Rep.
>>> State University of New York Student Assembly
>>> English Major
>>> University at Buffalo
>>> 306 Clemens Hall
>>> Buffalo, NY 14260
>>> daviddod at buffalo.edu
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Heather Field
>>> <missheather at comcast.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chris,
>>>> I can't imagine what could persuade you that the article you pasted is
>>>> great. It's just a glorified list of things to do once you've
>>>> established
>>>> why you are in an organisation and what the organisation is trying to
>>>> achieve. If one doesn't know the, why, of one's membership, and one
>>>> doesn't
>>>> know the, what the organisation does, then one will not be motivated to
>>>> get
>>>> involved.
>>>>
>>>> A person who is well informed on the why and what of the ACB, a
>>>> condition
>>>> that doesn't develop by reading their literature incidentally, rarely
>>>> discovers much consistency of philosophy or purpose, beyond opposing the
>>>> NFB. Occasionally there is good colaboration on a state or local level,
>>>> but
>>>> that is not thanks to national policy, nor from diplomatic forays by
>>>> either
>>>> organisation. It occurs when mutual interests of local blind people can
>>>> be
>>>> best served by working together. In my experience, once immediate goals
>>>> are
>>>> achieved, while people remain friends, NFB people don't suddenly rush
>>>> off
>>>> and spend lots of time working with the ACB. After all, an organisation
>>>> actually has to, "do", something if people are to do it with you.
>>>>
>>>> I find myself wondering why, if you've got all this time to be poring
>>>> through ACB literature and then editing and posting it on NFB lists, why
>>>> you
>>>> don't use it more constructively and get involved in physically making a
>>>> difference with the NFB in your local area.
>>>>
>>>> Chris, most of the people who frequent the NFB email lists have signed
>>>> up
>>>> because they're very committed members of the NFB and have made their
>>>> decision based on the facts as they see them. You may find the
>>>> occasional
>>>> article which you think is useful. However, the fact remains that the
>>>> two
>>>> organisations differ on fundamental, philosophical and practical issues.
>>>> You're not going to change anyone's mind on this list by posting to do
>>>> lists. Those of us who work on the front lines of changing what it means
>>>> to
>>>> be blind have learned that it is not what one does, as demonstrated by
>>>> the
>>>> myriad different ways chapters and affiliates engage their communities
>>>> to
>>>> change what it means to be blind. It's why, one does these things. It is
>>>> the
>>>> why that colours every interaction with the public and one's fellow
>>>> members.
>>>> Someone who truly knows why will be involved. You can't hold them back.
>>>> Telling people how, to get involved skips the, why should I question.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not the moderator but I am letting you know that there are a bunch
>>>> of
>>>> people on this list who find your posting of ACB stuff just plain
>>>> annoying.
>>>> Like you, we could subscribe to the Forum if we wanted to read it. But,
>>>> we
>>>> don't subscribe because we don't want to read it Chris.
>>>>
>>>> Do you imagine that those in charge of the liberal website Move
>>>> on.orgwould post press releases from the T party and encourage
>>>> subscribers
>>>> to try
>>>> to embrace the good bits of the ideology? We're mostly all too busy
>>>> doing
>>>> the real work of the NFB to bother reading the literature of the
>>>> organisation who spends an inordinate amount of time and energy doing
>>>> nothing more useful than trying to oppose us.
>>>> By the way, when you take a published article and add anything you are
>>>> breaking copyright law.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Heather Field
>>>>
>>>> If there was a "philosophy", or "goals" or consistent national, state
>>>> and
>>>> local consistency to learn about in the organisation from which you
>>>> lifted
>>>> the article, then perhaps, and only perhaps, that may have been useful.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:02 PM
>>>> To: NABS list ; Blind Talk list ; Gary Legates
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] a great article
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> As I try to learn more about both organizations, I have
>>>> subscribed to both the Braille Monitor and the Braille Forum.
>>>> The Monitor, as you know, is the Federation (NFB's)  publication
>>>> and the Forum is the Council (or ACB's) publication.  I found a
>>>> great article in July's Forum entitled "Fifteen Ways to Maximize
>>>> your ACB Membership," giving fifteen tips on how to take
>>>> advantage of all ACB (or any organization, for that matter) has
>>>> to offer.  I think this could also apply to the Federation and to
>>>> NABS or any other special-interest division, and is some good
>>>> advice.  To be accurate, I added "or NFB" in parentheses to some
>>>> parts of the article.  I have pasted the article below.  Any
>>>> thoughts on this? I promise I'm not trying to force the ACB down
>>>> your throats; in fact, I'm a Federationist in nature, but want to
>>>> learn about both.  Here is the article.
>>>>
>>>> 15 WAYS TO MAXIMIZE YOUR ACB (or NFB) MEMBERSHIP
>>>>  by Kenneth Semien Sr.
>>>>  All too often, people join organizations without taking
>>>> advantage of the opportunity to truly know intricate details of
>>>> its purpose,
>>>> mission, and operating practices.  This can very well result in a
>>>> lack of
>>>> participation and could ultimately result in a decision to
>>>> forfeit what
>>>> could have been the ideal vehicle to enhance your life, build
>>>> great
>>>> relationships and effectively share personal skills and abilities
>>>> that can
>>>> make an enormous difference.  In an effort to encourage you to
>>>> explore the
>>>> meaningful efforts of ACB, I have included the tips listed below
>>>> to assist
>>>> you in being all you can be and help you join with others whose
>>>> skills
>>>> complement yours.
>>>>  1.  Be inquisitive and don't hesitate to ask questions.
>>>>  2.  Become familiar with the history, mission, and purpose by
>>>> reviewing it often enough to be able to repeat it to others.  In
>>>> turn
>>>> someone may realize that this is the organization they have been
>>>> looking
>>>> for.
>>>>  3.  Make a personal commitment to identify ways to get
>>>> involved.
>>>>  4.  Find out who the officers are and become acquainted with
>>>> them and their roles and responsibilities, as well as members you
>>>> observe
>>>> actively participating in events and projects associated with our
>>>> organization.
>>>>  5.  Make your skills and abilities known to leaders of your
>>>> chapter, affiliate, or the president of our organization.
>>>>  6.  Make every effort to participate in chapter, state
>>>> affiliate
>>>> and national meetings, seminars, conferences and conventions.
>>>>  7.  Inquire about available committees you may be able to serve
>>>> on to assist the organization in achieving its goals and
>>>> objectives.  Seek
>>>> to join committees that allow you to utilize your skills and
>>>> abilities in
>>>> the most effective and efficient manner.
>>>>  8.  If you have access to the Internet, sign up for up-to-date
>>>> news and announcements from all levels of our organization.  Ask
>>>> a president
>>>> or member to tell you how to take advantage of this option.
>>>>  9.  Listen to or read publications/newsletters distributed by
>>>> our
>>>> organization on all levels.  This is one of the best ways to
>>>> learn about
>>>> useful resources, access inspirational stories, scholarships,
>>>> awards, and
>>>> upcoming projects and events.
>>>>  10.  Identify special-interest groups that meet your personal
>>>> needs.  These groups provide you the opportunity to network with
>>>> others
>>>> sharing common interests, such as your prior or current
>>>> occupation, hobbies,
>>>> health concerns and so much more.
>>>>  11.  Obtain your own copy of the constitution and bylaws to
>>>> learn
>>>> of the agreed-upon operating practices and procedures of our
>>>> organization.
>>>>  12.  Prepare for future involvement as an officer by becoming
>>>> familiar with officer titles and duties.
>>>>  13.  Participate in conference calls to build your knowledge,
>>>> such as membership focus calls, periodic Office Hours conference
>>>> calls with
>>>> the ACB president, committee calls, and special-interest group
>>>> calls.
>>>>  14.  Explore the web sites of your chapter, state affiliate and
>>>> our national organization.  You may locate information on the web
>>>> site that
>>>> you didn't think of inquiring about.
>>>>  15.  Pay your annual dues faithfully and encourage others to do
>>>> the same.
>>>>  The more you know and the more you become involved, the more
>>>> you
>>>> will begin to know that you have joined a phenomenal organization
>>>> that is
>>>> continuing to grow.  Have a great ACB (or NFB) adventure!
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>>> nuisance." -- Kenneth Jernigan (President of the National
>>>> Federation of the Blind, 1968-1986.)
>>>>
>>>>  Visit the I C.A.N.  Foundation online at:
>>>> www.icanfoundation.info for
>>>> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>>>> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>
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