[nabs-l] a great article

Joshua Lester jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
Wed Sep 7 07:05:11 UTC 2011


Right on.
Isn't it sad, that when I attended LWSB, that noone there mentioned the NFB?
All I ever heard mentioned, was ACB this, ACB that.
That's all I heard.
I hadn't heard of the NFB, until 2 years ago.
Blessings, Joshua

On 9/6/11, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Joshua,
> I completely agree with you. I'm just saying we should take the high
> road. We can't control how they act, but we can control how we act.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 9/6/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Arielle, it works both ways.
>> If we respect them, they need to respect us.
>> Terms like, "Tenbroek Machine," shouldn't be used to describe us, by
>> that organization.
>> I know, because I've observed that mess, from the outside, looking in.
>> I'm thankful for the NFB, and we all need to respect one another.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 9/6/11, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> Chris, I'm glad you decided to share this article. While I didn't find
>>> anything in it particularly special either, I think we need to be
>>> careful not to reject a piece of writing or thought just because it
>>> happens to come from the ACB. It is true that ACB and NFB have taken
>>> different stances on some policy issues and that the two organizations
>>> have very different philosophies about leadership. However, when it
>>> comes down to it, ACB is made up of a bunch of blind folks just like
>>> us who have decided to join together to obtain support and collective
>>> advocacy. While I personally wouldn't join the ACB and prefer to stay
>>> with NFB, and I don't advocate having the two organizations unite
>>> because I think it's good for blind people to have a choice of
>>> organizations to join, I think we do owe the ACB folks some respect
>>> here.
>>> Furthermore, though many of the members of this list are already
>>> committed Federationists as Heather pointed out, some of us are still
>>> exploring what the two organizations have to offer. Please, let's not
>>> shoot down this exploration. I have been on this list for eleven years
>>> and one of the things I like best about it is that we are free to
>>> discuss our views on blindness and to examine and critique other
>>> people's ideas-even if we don't all agree with them or even if our
>>> personal views are unpopular. Stifling these thoughts and reflections
>>> is likely to do more harm than good, and, I fear, to make some folks
>>> reluctant to join us. When I was in this questioning stage myself, one
>>> of the things that pushed me to take the plunge and join NFB was the
>>> fact that I was encouraged to ask questions and to challenge NFB
>>> actions that I didn't fully understand. If we get too zealous about
>>> the superiority of NFB's views over other ways of thinking about
>>> blindness, we risk thwarting the development of some of our future
>>> leaders who are still deciding where NFB fits in their lives.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 9/5/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ashley,
>>>>   I didn't really mind him sharing it, either.  I'll stay, kind of.
>>>> Every once in a while, something comes up that makes all the silly
>>>> back and forth rhetoric actually worth it.  But only every once in a
>>>> while, so I'll only be on here every now and again.
>>>>   Take care,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 9/5/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> ,
>>>>> I hope you'll stay; sometimes I'm frustrated by arguing, but I just hit
>>>>> the
>>>>> delete key then. For spam I ignore it.
>>>>> To me, this list has been one of the best resources. As to the article,
>>>>> it
>>>>> had some good tips, but they were
>>>>> generic, still I did not mind him sharing it.
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring
>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:29 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a great article
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>   It's been a while and I really don't have a lot to say, except
>>>>> there's a good reason I've stopped spending much time on here and all
>>>>> these silly debates, arguing for the sake of arguing and sparking
>>>>> controversy for controversy's sake, just don't really appeal to me
>>>>> much anymore.  I'd rather live a real life, you know?  Some of us have
>>>>> those.
>>>>>   Chris, I know you were trying to share good ways of getting involved
>>>>> in any organization.  The suggestions here are things I can use in my
>>>>> local political party, my church, the county lions' club, student
>>>>> organizations on campus, etc.  They're a bit generic and vague, and I
>>>>> suspect the people who want to be involved in any organization are
>>>>> already...well, getting involved, but I suppose the bit of practical
>>>>> advice in here can be useful to someone who wants to work in any
>>>>> established organized movement.
>>>>>   Anyways I'm tired of arguing semantics.  I'm irritated that people
>>>>> get their panties in such a twist when someone else shares an opinion
>>>>> contrary to their own.  This list is not simply for NFB propaganda,
>>>>> but, with all the assorted spam and forwards and shouting matches that
>>>>> really serve no purpose whatsoever, I find myself growing tired of it.
>>>>>   I guess this is goodbye till next time, folks.  If I ever see
>>>>> something on here worth spending my time on (I'm starting to think
>>>>> it's not really likely), I'll chime in.  In the meantime, have fun
>>>>> with the list.
>>>>>   Cheers,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/2/11, David Dodge <daviddod at buffalo.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> Heather and Chris,
>>>>>> A few things. First, Chris saying that the article he posted is a
>>>>>> great
>>>>>> article is his opinion and anyone that dislikes the article has every
>>>>>> right
>>>>>> to that opinion also. I don't think we should shun anyone for their
>>>>>> personal
>>>>>> opinion on anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally, I like making connections between organizations and seeing
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> they are alike and different. I do not feel as though Chris put this
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> there to try and change anyone's core philosophy. Instead, I think he
>>>>>> meant
>>>>>> it has some basic introductory information that some people on this
>>>>>> list
>>>>>> will find useful and others wont.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Heather, I'm going to call out something specific that you said and
>>>>>> hope
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> will not be offended by my doing so. It's just its something I see a
>>>>>> lot
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> people do on a variety of listservs that I have an issue with. I don't
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> we should ever try to quantify a listserv. "most people" on a certain
>>>>>> listserv "people on this listserv do or don't want to hear".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What we have to remember is we actually don't know the full extent of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> listserv. For instance, I have given this listserv to a number of
>>>>>> friends
>>>>>> and colleagues of mine whom are not very active within NFB but love
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the information they get. Another important thing to remember is the
>>>>>> responses we see are not necessarily indicative of the large whole on
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> listserv. I am part of some listservs that I have never responded to
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> part of some that I respond to more than I have on this one. I'll stop
>>>>>> rambling, I just don't like quantifying a sample that I am unsure
>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't feel like I've done myself justice in this response but
>>>>>> hopefully
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> gave someone, somewhere, something to think about. Haha. Have a
>>>>>> wonderful
>>>>>> weekend, everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>>>> David Dodge
>>>>>> Doctoral Degree Granting Institutions Rep.
>>>>>> State University of New York Student Assembly
>>>>>> English Major
>>>>>> University at Buffalo
>>>>>> 306 Clemens Hall
>>>>>> Buffalo, NY 14260
>>>>>> daviddod at buffalo.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Heather Field
>>>>>> <missheather at comcast.net>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>> I can't imagine what could persuade you that the article you pasted
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> great. It's just a glorified list of things to do once you've
>>>>>>> established
>>>>>>> why you are in an organisation and what the organisation is trying to
>>>>>>> achieve. If one doesn't know the, why, of one's membership, and one
>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>> know the, what the organisation does, then one will not be motivated
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> involved.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A person who is well informed on the why and what of the ACB, a
>>>>>>> condition
>>>>>>> that doesn't develop by reading their literature incidentally, rarely
>>>>>>> discovers much consistency of philosophy or purpose, beyond opposing
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> NFB. Occasionally there is good colaboration on a state or local
>>>>>>> level,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> that is not thanks to national policy, nor from diplomatic forays by
>>>>>>> either
>>>>>>> organisation. It occurs when mutual interests of local blind people
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> best served by working together. In my experience, once immediate
>>>>>>> goals
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> achieved, while people remain friends, NFB people don't suddenly rush
>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>> and spend lots of time working with the ACB. After all, an
>>>>>>> organisation
>>>>>>> actually has to, "do", something if people are to do it with you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find myself wondering why, if you've got all this time to be poring
>>>>>>> through ACB literature and then editing and posting it on NFB lists,
>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> don't use it more constructively and get involved in physically
>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> difference with the NFB in your local area.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris, most of the people who frequent the NFB email lists have
>>>>>>> signed
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> because they're very committed members of the NFB and have made their
>>>>>>> decision based on the facts as they see them. You may find the
>>>>>>> occasional
>>>>>>> article which you think is useful. However, the fact remains that the
>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>> organisations differ on fundamental, philosophical and practical
>>>>>>> issues.
>>>>>>> You're not going to change anyone's mind on this list by posting to
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> lists. Those of us who work on the front lines of changing what it
>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be blind have learned that it is not what one does, as demonstrated
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> myriad different ways chapters and affiliates engage their
>>>>>>> communities
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> change what it means to be blind. It's why, one does these things. It
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> why that colours every interaction with the public and one's fellow
>>>>>>> members.
>>>>>>> Someone who truly knows why will be involved. You can't hold them
>>>>>>> back.
>>>>>>> Telling people how, to get involved skips the, why should I question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not the moderator but I am letting you know that there are a
>>>>>>> bunch
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> people on this list who find your posting of ACB stuff just plain
>>>>>>> annoying.
>>>>>>> Like you, we could subscribe to the Forum if we wanted to read it.
>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> don't subscribe because we don't want to read it Chris.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you imagine that those in charge of the liberal website Move
>>>>>>> on.orgwould post press releases from the T party and encourage
>>>>>>> subscribers
>>>>>>> to try
>>>>>>> to embrace the good bits of the ideology? We're mostly all too busy
>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>> the real work of the NFB to bother reading the literature of the
>>>>>>> organisation who spends an inordinate amount of time and energy doing
>>>>>>> nothing more useful than trying to oppose us.
>>>>>>> By the way, when you take a published article and add anything you
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> breaking copyright law.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Heather Field
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If there was a "philosophy", or "goals" or consistent national, state
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> local consistency to learn about in the organisation from which you
>>>>>>> lifted
>>>>>>> the article, then perhaps, and only perhaps, that may have been
>>>>>>> useful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:02 PM
>>>>>>> To: NABS list ; Blind Talk list ; Gary Legates
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] a great article
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I try to learn more about both organizations, I have
>>>>>>> subscribed to both the Braille Monitor and the Braille Forum.
>>>>>>> The Monitor, as you know, is the Federation (NFB's)  publication
>>>>>>> and the Forum is the Council (or ACB's) publication.  I found a
>>>>>>> great article in July's Forum entitled "Fifteen Ways to Maximize
>>>>>>> your ACB Membership," giving fifteen tips on how to take
>>>>>>> advantage of all ACB (or any organization, for that matter) has
>>>>>>> to offer.  I think this could also apply to the Federation and to
>>>>>>> NABS or any other special-interest division, and is some good
>>>>>>> advice.  To be accurate, I added "or NFB" in parentheses to some
>>>>>>> parts of the article.  I have pasted the article below.  Any
>>>>>>> thoughts on this? I promise I'm not trying to force the ACB down
>>>>>>> your throats; in fact, I'm a Federationist in nature, but want to
>>>>>>> learn about both.  Here is the article.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 15 WAYS TO MAXIMIZE YOUR ACB (or NFB) MEMBERSHIP
>>>>>>>  by Kenneth Semien Sr.
>>>>>>>  All too often, people join organizations without taking
>>>>>>> advantage of the opportunity to truly know intricate details of
>>>>>>> its purpose,
>>>>>>> mission, and operating practices.  This can very well result in a
>>>>>>> lack of
>>>>>>> participation and could ultimately result in a decision to
>>>>>>> forfeit what
>>>>>>> could have been the ideal vehicle to enhance your life, build
>>>>>>> great
>>>>>>> relationships and effectively share personal skills and abilities
>>>>>>> that can
>>>>>>> make an enormous difference.  In an effort to encourage you to
>>>>>>> explore the
>>>>>>> meaningful efforts of ACB, I have included the tips listed below
>>>>>>> to assist
>>>>>>> you in being all you can be and help you join with others whose
>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>> complement yours.
>>>>>>>  1.  Be inquisitive and don't hesitate to ask questions.
>>>>>>>  2.  Become familiar with the history, mission, and purpose by
>>>>>>> reviewing it often enough to be able to repeat it to others.  In
>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>> someone may realize that this is the organization they have been
>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>> for.
>>>>>>>  3.  Make a personal commitment to identify ways to get
>>>>>>> involved.
>>>>>>>  4.  Find out who the officers are and become acquainted with
>>>>>>> them and their roles and responsibilities, as well as members you
>>>>>>> observe
>>>>>>> actively participating in events and projects associated with our
>>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>>  5.  Make your skills and abilities known to leaders of your
>>>>>>> chapter, affiliate, or the president of our organization.
>>>>>>>  6.  Make every effort to participate in chapter, state
>>>>>>> affiliate
>>>>>>> and national meetings, seminars, conferences and conventions.
>>>>>>>  7.  Inquire about available committees you may be able to serve
>>>>>>> on to assist the organization in achieving its goals and
>>>>>>> objectives.  Seek
>>>>>>> to join committees that allow you to utilize your skills and
>>>>>>> abilities in
>>>>>>> the most effective and efficient manner.
>>>>>>>  8.  If you have access to the Internet, sign up for up-to-date
>>>>>>> news and announcements from all levels of our organization.  Ask
>>>>>>> a president
>>>>>>> or member to tell you how to take advantage of this option.
>>>>>>>  9.  Listen to or read publications/newsletters distributed by
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> organization on all levels.  This is one of the best ways to
>>>>>>> learn about
>>>>>>> useful resources, access inspirational stories, scholarships,
>>>>>>> awards, and
>>>>>>> upcoming projects and events.
>>>>>>>  10.  Identify special-interest groups that meet your personal
>>>>>>> needs.  These groups provide you the opportunity to network with
>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>> sharing common interests, such as your prior or current
>>>>>>> occupation, hobbies,
>>>>>>> health concerns and so much more.
>>>>>>>  11.  Obtain your own copy of the constitution and bylaws to
>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>> of the agreed-upon operating practices and procedures of our
>>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>>  12.  Prepare for future involvement as an officer by becoming
>>>>>>> familiar with officer titles and duties.
>>>>>>>  13.  Participate in conference calls to build your knowledge,
>>>>>>> such as membership focus calls, periodic Office Hours conference
>>>>>>> calls with
>>>>>>> the ACB president, committee calls, and special-interest group
>>>>>>> calls.
>>>>>>>  14.  Explore the web sites of your chapter, state affiliate and
>>>>>>> our national organization.  You may locate information on the web
>>>>>>> site that
>>>>>>> you didn't think of inquiring about.
>>>>>>>  15.  Pay your annual dues faithfully and encourage others to do
>>>>>>> the same.
>>>>>>>  The more you know and the more you become involved, the more
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> will begin to know that you have joined a phenomenal organization
>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>> continuing to grow.  Have a great ACB (or NFB) adventure!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>>>>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>>>>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>>>>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>>>>>> nuisance." -- Kenneth Jernigan (President of the National
>>>>>>> Federation of the Blind, 1968-1986.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Visit the I C.A.N.  Foundation online at:
>>>>>>> www.icanfoundation.info for
>>>>>>> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>>>>>>> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>> missheather%40comcast.net<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>> daviddod%40buffalo.edu<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>




More information about the NABS-L mailing list