[nabs-l] a great article

Wed Sep 7 04:40:05 UTC 2011

Hi Joshua,
I completely agree with you. I'm just saying we should take the high
road. We can't control how they act, but we can control how we act.
Best,
Arielle

On 9/6/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Arielle, it works both ways.
> If we respect them, they need to respect us.
> Terms like, "Tenbroek Machine," shouldn't be used to describe us, by
> that organization.
> I know, because I've observed that mess, from the outside, looking in.
> I'm thankful for the NFB, and we all need to respect one another.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 9/6/11, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Chris, I'm glad you decided to share this article. While I didn't find
>> anything in it particularly special either, I think we need to be
>> careful not to reject a piece of writing or thought just because it
>> happens to come from the ACB. It is true that ACB and NFB have taken
>> different stances on some policy issues and that the two organizations
>> have very different philosophies about leadership. However, when it
>> comes down to it, ACB is made up of a bunch of blind folks just like
>> us who have decided to join together to obtain support and collective
>> advocacy. While I personally wouldn't join the ACB and prefer to stay
>> with NFB, and I don't advocate having the two organizations unite
>> because I think it's good for blind people to have a choice of
>> organizations to join, I think we do owe the ACB folks some respect
>> here.
>> Furthermore, though many of the members of this list are already
>> committed Federationists as Heather pointed out, some of us are still
>> exploring what the two organizations have to offer. Please, let's not
>> shoot down this exploration. I have been on this list for eleven years
>> and one of the things I like best about it is that we are free to
>> discuss our views on blindness and to examine and critique other
>> people's ideas-even if we don't all agree with them or even if our
>> personal views are unpopular. Stifling these thoughts and reflections
>> is likely to do more harm than good, and, I fear, to make some folks
>> reluctant to join us. When I was in this questioning stage myself, one
>> of the things that pushed me to take the plunge and join NFB was the
>> fact that I was encouraged to ask questions and to challenge NFB
>> actions that I didn't fully understand. If we get too zealous about
>> the superiority of NFB's views over other ways of thinking about
>> blindness, we risk thwarting the development of some of our future
>> leaders who are still deciding where NFB fits in their lives.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 9/5/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ashley,
>>>   I didn't really mind him sharing it, either.  I'll stay, kind of.
>>> Every once in a while, something comes up that makes all the silly
>>> back and forth rhetoric actually worth it.  But only every once in a
>>> while, so I'll only be on here every now and again.
>>>   Take care,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 9/5/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> ,
>>>> I hope you'll stay; sometimes I'm frustrated by arguing, but I just hit
>>>> the
>>>> delete key then. For spam I ignore it.
>>>> To me, this list has been one of the best resources. As to the article,
>>>> it
>>>> had some good tips, but they were
>>>> generic, still I did not mind him sharing it.
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:29 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a great article
>>>>
>>>> Hey all,
>>>>   It's been a while and I really don't have a lot to say, except
>>>> there's a good reason I've stopped spending much time on here and all
>>>> these silly debates, arguing for the sake of arguing and sparking
>>>> controversy for controversy's sake, just don't really appeal to me
>>>> much anymore.  I'd rather live a real life, you know?  Some of us have
>>>> those.
>>>>   Chris, I know you were trying to share good ways of getting involved
>>>> in any organization.  The suggestions here are things I can use in my
>>>> local political party, my church, the county lions' club, student
>>>> organizations on campus, etc.  They're a bit generic and vague, and I
>>>> suspect the people who want to be involved in any organization are
>>>> already...well, getting involved, but I suppose the bit of practical
>>>> advice in here can be useful to someone who wants to work in any
>>>> established organized movement.
>>>>   Anyways I'm tired of arguing semantics.  I'm irritated that people
>>>> get their panties in such a twist when someone else shares an opinion
>>>> contrary to their own.  This list is not simply for NFB propaganda,
>>>> but, with all the assorted spam and forwards and shouting matches that
>>>> really serve no purpose whatsoever, I find myself growing tired of it.
>>>>   I guess this is goodbye till next time, folks.  If I ever see
>>>> something on here worth spending my time on (I'm starting to think
>>>> it's not really likely), I'll chime in.  In the meantime, have fun
>>>> with the list.
>>>>   Cheers,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 9/2/11, David Dodge <daviddod at buffalo.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Heather and Chris,
>>>>> A few things. First, Chris saying that the article he posted is a great
>>>>> article is his opinion and anyone that dislikes the article has every
>>>>> right
>>>>> to that opinion also. I don't think we should shun anyone for their
>>>>> personal
>>>>> opinion on anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I like making connections between organizations and seeing
>>>>> how
>>>>> they are alike and different. I do not feel as though Chris put this
>>>>> out
>>>>> there to try and change anyone's core philosophy. Instead, I think he
>>>>> meant
>>>>> it has some basic introductory information that some people on this
>>>>> list
>>>>> will find useful and others wont.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heather, I'm going to call out something specific that you said and
>>>>> hope
>>>>> you
>>>>> will not be offended by my doing so. It's just its something I see a
>>>>> lot
>>>>> of
>>>>> people do on a variety of listservs that I have an issue with. I don't
>>>>> think
>>>>> we should ever try to quantify a listserv. "most people" on a certain
>>>>> listserv "people on this listserv do or don't want to hear".
>>>>>
>>>>> What we have to remember is we actually don't know the full extent of
>>>>> the
>>>>> listserv. For instance, I have given this listserv to a number of
>>>>> friends
>>>>> and colleagues of mine whom are not very active within NFB but love
>>>>> this
>>>>> for
>>>>> the information they get. Another important thing to remember is the
>>>>> responses we see are not necessarily indicative of the large whole on a
>>>>> listserv. I am part of some listservs that I have never responded to
>>>>> and
>>>>> part of some that I respond to more than I have on this one. I'll stop
>>>>> rambling, I just don't like quantifying a sample that I am unsure
>>>>> about.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't feel like I've done myself justice in this response but
>>>>> hopefully
>>>>> it
>>>>> gave someone, somewhere, something to think about. Haha. Have a
>>>>> wonderful
>>>>> weekend, everyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>>> David Dodge
>>>>> Doctoral Degree Granting Institutions Rep.
>>>>> State University of New York Student Assembly
>>>>> English Major
>>>>> University at Buffalo
>>>>> 306 Clemens Hall
>>>>> Buffalo, NY 14260
>>>>> daviddod at buffalo.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Heather Field
>>>>> <missheather at comcast.net>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>> I can't imagine what could persuade you that the article you pasted is
>>>>>> great. It's just a glorified list of things to do once you've
>>>>>> established
>>>>>> why you are in an organisation and what the organisation is trying to
>>>>>> achieve. If one doesn't know the, why, of one's membership, and one
>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>> know the, what the organisation does, then one will not be motivated
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> involved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A person who is well informed on the why and what of the ACB, a
>>>>>> condition
>>>>>> that doesn't develop by reading their literature incidentally, rarely
>>>>>> discovers much consistency of philosophy or purpose, beyond opposing
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> NFB. Occasionally there is good colaboration on a state or local
>>>>>> level,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> that is not thanks to national policy, nor from diplomatic forays by
>>>>>> either
>>>>>> organisation. It occurs when mutual interests of local blind people
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> best served by working together. In my experience, once immediate
>>>>>> goals
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> achieved, while people remain friends, NFB people don't suddenly rush
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> and spend lots of time working with the ACB. After all, an
>>>>>> organisation
>>>>>> actually has to, "do", something if people are to do it with you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I find myself wondering why, if you've got all this time to be poring
>>>>>> through ACB literature and then editing and posting it on NFB lists,
>>>>>> why
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> don't use it more constructively and get involved in physically making
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> difference with the NFB in your local area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris, most of the people who frequent the NFB email lists have signed
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> because they're very committed members of the NFB and have made their
>>>>>> decision based on the facts as they see them. You may find the
>>>>>> occasional
>>>>>> article which you think is useful. However, the fact remains that the
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> organisations differ on fundamental, philosophical and practical
>>>>>> issues.
>>>>>> You're not going to change anyone's mind on this list by posting to do
>>>>>> lists. Those of us who work on the front lines of changing what it
>>>>>> means
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be blind have learned that it is not what one does, as demonstrated by
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> myriad different ways chapters and affiliates engage their communities
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> change what it means to be blind. It's why, one does these things. It
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> why that colours every interaction with the public and one's fellow
>>>>>> members.
>>>>>> Someone who truly knows why will be involved. You can't hold them
>>>>>> back.
>>>>>> Telling people how, to get involved skips the, why should I question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not the moderator but I am letting you know that there are a bunch
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> people on this list who find your posting of ACB stuff just plain
>>>>>> annoying.
>>>>>> Like you, we could subscribe to the Forum if we wanted to read it.
>>>>>> But,
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> don't subscribe because we don't want to read it Chris.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you imagine that those in charge of the liberal website Move
>>>>>> on.orgwould post press releases from the T party and encourage
>>>>>> subscribers
>>>>>> to try
>>>>>> to embrace the good bits of the ideology? We're mostly all too busy
>>>>>> doing
>>>>>> the real work of the NFB to bother reading the literature of the
>>>>>> organisation who spends an inordinate amount of time and energy doing
>>>>>> nothing more useful than trying to oppose us.
>>>>>> By the way, when you take a published article and add anything you are
>>>>>> breaking copyright law.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Heather Field
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there was a "philosophy", or "goals" or consistent national, state
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> local consistency to learn about in the organisation from which you
>>>>>> lifted
>>>>>> the article, then perhaps, and only perhaps, that may have been
>>>>>> useful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:02 PM
>>>>>> To: NABS list ; Blind Talk list ; Gary Legates
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] a great article
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I try to learn more about both organizations, I have
>>>>>> subscribed to both the Braille Monitor and the Braille Forum.
>>>>>> The Monitor, as you know, is the Federation (NFB's)  publication
>>>>>> and the Forum is the Council (or ACB's) publication.  I found a
>>>>>> great article in July's Forum entitled "Fifteen Ways to Maximize
>>>>>> your ACB Membership," giving fifteen tips on how to take
>>>>>> advantage of all ACB (or any organization, for that matter) has
>>>>>> to offer.  I think this could also apply to the Federation and to
>>>>>> NABS or any other special-interest division, and is some good
>>>>>> advice.  To be accurate, I added "or NFB" in parentheses to some
>>>>>> parts of the article.  I have pasted the article below.  Any
>>>>>> thoughts on this? I promise I'm not trying to force the ACB down
>>>>>> your throats; in fact, I'm a Federationist in nature, but want to
>>>>>> learn about both.  Here is the article.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 15 WAYS TO MAXIMIZE YOUR ACB (or NFB) MEMBERSHIP
>>>>>>  by Kenneth Semien Sr.
>>>>>>  All too often, people join organizations without taking
>>>>>> advantage of the opportunity to truly know intricate details of
>>>>>> its purpose,
>>>>>> mission, and operating practices.  This can very well result in a
>>>>>> lack of
>>>>>> participation and could ultimately result in a decision to
>>>>>> forfeit what
>>>>>> could have been the ideal vehicle to enhance your life, build
>>>>>> great
>>>>>> relationships and effectively share personal skills and abilities
>>>>>> that can
>>>>>> make an enormous difference.  In an effort to encourage you to
>>>>>> explore the
>>>>>> meaningful efforts of ACB, I have included the tips listed below
>>>>>> to assist
>>>>>> you in being all you can be and help you join with others whose
>>>>>> skills
>>>>>> complement yours.
>>>>>>  1.  Be inquisitive and don't hesitate to ask questions.
>>>>>>  2.  Become familiar with the history, mission, and purpose by
>>>>>> reviewing it often enough to be able to repeat it to others.  In
>>>>>> turn
>>>>>> someone may realize that this is the organization they have been
>>>>>> looking
>>>>>> for.
>>>>>>  3.  Make a personal commitment to identify ways to get
>>>>>> involved.
>>>>>>  4.  Find out who the officers are and become acquainted with
>>>>>> them and their roles and responsibilities, as well as members you
>>>>>> observe
>>>>>> actively participating in events and projects associated with our
>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>  5.  Make your skills and abilities known to leaders of your
>>>>>> chapter, affiliate, or the president of our organization.
>>>>>>  6.  Make every effort to participate in chapter, state
>>>>>> affiliate
>>>>>> and national meetings, seminars, conferences and conventions.
>>>>>>  7.  Inquire about available committees you may be able to serve
>>>>>> on to assist the organization in achieving its goals and
>>>>>> objectives.  Seek
>>>>>> to join committees that allow you to utilize your skills and
>>>>>> abilities in
>>>>>> the most effective and efficient manner.
>>>>>>  8.  If you have access to the Internet, sign up for up-to-date
>>>>>> news and announcements from all levels of our organization.  Ask
>>>>>> a president
>>>>>> or member to tell you how to take advantage of this option.
>>>>>>  9.  Listen to or read publications/newsletters distributed by
>>>>>> our
>>>>>> organization on all levels.  This is one of the best ways to
>>>>>> learn about
>>>>>> useful resources, access inspirational stories, scholarships,
>>>>>> awards, and
>>>>>> upcoming projects and events.
>>>>>>  10.  Identify special-interest groups that meet your personal
>>>>>> needs.  These groups provide you the opportunity to network with
>>>>>> others
>>>>>> sharing common interests, such as your prior or current
>>>>>> occupation, hobbies,
>>>>>> health concerns and so much more.
>>>>>>  11.  Obtain your own copy of the constitution and bylaws to
>>>>>> learn
>>>>>> of the agreed-upon operating practices and procedures of our
>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>  12.  Prepare for future involvement as an officer by becoming
>>>>>> familiar with officer titles and duties.
>>>>>>  13.  Participate in conference calls to build your knowledge,
>>>>>> such as membership focus calls, periodic Office Hours conference
>>>>>> calls with
>>>>>> the ACB president, committee calls, and special-interest group
>>>>>> calls.
>>>>>>  14.  Explore the web sites of your chapter, state affiliate and
>>>>>> our national organization.  You may locate information on the web
>>>>>> site that
>>>>>> you didn't think of inquiring about.
>>>>>>  15.  Pay your annual dues faithfully and encourage others to do
>>>>>> the same.
>>>>>>  The more you know and the more you become involved, the more
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> will begin to know that you have joined a phenomenal organization
>>>>>> that is
>>>>>> continuing to grow.  Have a great ACB (or NFB) adventure!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>>>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>>>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>>>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>>>>> nuisance." -- Kenneth Jernigan (President of the National
>>>>>> Federation of the Blind, 1968-1986.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Visit the I C.A.N.  Foundation online at:
>>>>>> www.icanfoundation.info for
>>>>>> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>>>>>> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>>
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