[nabs-l] ID's and Voting

Tue Aug 28 05:15:47 UTC 2012

Hi all,
I think it is fair for a blind person to need to get a state ID card
or non-driving license. Going to the DMV sucks but it sucks for
sighted people too. Having some kind of legal identification is just
part of living in this country as an adult and enables us to
participate in all the same activities as those with drivers'
licenses, including flying on airplanes and passing the age test to
buy alcohol (I don't think student ID is acceptable for either of
these things, whether you are sighted or blind). I do, however, agree
that requiring a blind person to give a signature that matches one on
file is probably unfair even if it is not intended to be
discriminatory. A blind person could get around this by signing with a
stamp, though I'm not sure how long those last.
Arielle
On 8/27/12, Stephanie H. DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hm my main concern with the IDs is that people have to get to the DMV
> somehow.  In places like Nashville, that's not exactly straightforward.  I
> guess they could take a cab?  It just sucks because, I think before, people
> could just use a student ID (speaking about our own age group).  Now, the
> states have made it more difficult than it already was.
>
> Rhode Island has an interesting approach to this (and someone correct me if
> I'm wrong).  If you don't have a state ID on you at the polling place, you
> can sign an affidavit of identity, which basically just certifies that you
> are who you say you are.  I like this idea (well, except for the whole
> signature thing, which I had never thought about).
>
> http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx
>
>
> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>     ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Cynthia Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Stephanie:
>>
>> This is great informaition. Thanks for going so much in depth.
>>
>> The ID issue is the easiest. I don't know of a state that doesn't
>> offer a nondriving photo ID. This can be obtained wherever you would
>> go to get your driver's license. It looks just like and contains all
>> of the information that a driver's license contains. It is a
>> legitimate form of ID. I had no problems at the precincts in NC when I
>> showed my photo ID.
>>
>> Where ID's relate to my concern is that when you get your ID, you have
>> to sign the bottom. The DMV that I went to had an electronic pad that
>> you sign with a stylus. I typically like to place a finger down on a
>> paper to orient myself before I write my signature. But touching the
>> electronic pad made a finger print. After a few unsuccessful tries,
>> the agent gave me an index card, and they elected to process my
>> signature the old way. This was helpful, but even though I have been
>> signing my name since I was 7, I really don't have any way of knowing
>> if I have signed my name exactly the way it looks on my state ID; this
>> signature is kept on file with the state so they don't actually have
>> to look at your ID to see it. I know that the intentions of this are
>> good and in place to prevent voter fraud, but as a blind person, I
>> feel like it pretty much gives me no choice but to find 2 witnesses to
>> sign my ballot and varify my signature, and I think that is unfair
>> since a sighted person can fill out their ballot independently and
>> forego the long precinct lines since they are located far and few
>> between due to the mailed-out ballots being the primary method used
>> for voting.
>>
>> I'm sure the membership committee will look at all of this information
>> and decide if this call is a good idea, which I think we will, and we
>> will work to find appropriate people to conduct the call. Thanks so
>> much for the information. It was really great to read.
>>
>> And, I go by Cindy so that's fine.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 8/27/12, Stephanie H. DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > This website is very informative.  The following link takes you to a
>> > page
>> > where they have links to several laws relevant to people with
>> disabilities.
>> >
>> > http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=Laws
>> >
>> > In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>> >     ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 10:48 PM, Stephanie H. DeLuca
>> > <sjhhirst at gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >> Heh, I mean Cynthia, sorry!
>> >>
>> >> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>> >>     ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Stephanie H. DeLuca
>> >> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I'm excited to see that other people support the idea of getting
>> >>> involved
>> >>> but sad to admit that it's a problem.
>> >>>
>> >>> My story is this:  In 2008, I went for early voting at one of the
>> >>> designated places in Nashville.  When it was my turn, they designated
>> >>> a
>> >>> polling machine to me.  Before I began the process, I asked about
>> >>> assisted
>> >>> voting.  Maybe I should have asked about accessible polling machines?
>> >>>  Anyway, he just said he'd have to help me and that was the only
>> >>> option
>> >>> I
>> >>> had.  I turned him down and went through the process myself (I do
>> >>> have
>> >>> some
>> >>> vision).
>> >>>
>> >>> It seems that the voting issues fall into a few categories:
>> >>> 1) lack of knowledge of rights/responsibilities on behalf of the
>> >>> voter
>> >>> 2) lack of training and knowledge of polling staff
>> >>> 3) lack of a functioning accessible voting machine on site
>> >>> 4) difficult-to-follow tutorials/instructions for the accessible
>> machine
>> >>>
>> >>> For me, numbers 1 and 2 seem to be the biggest problems.  How do we
>> >>> get
>> >>> the word out and how do we insure that the people at the polling
>> >>> places
>> >>> are
>> >>> trained and that there is a funcitoning machine available?
>> >>>
>> >>> I like the idea about having demos.  Barring that, would it be
>> >>> possible
>> >>> to record a tutorial and post it online?  Maybe by someone who has
>> >>> used
>> >>> it
>> >>> recently?  I've heard that the tutorial provided at the polling place
>> is
>> >>> often not straightforward or easy to follow and that a blind user
>> >>> could
>> >>> do
>> >>> a better job haha
>> >>>
>> >>> I think we should at the very least inform people of their rights.  I
>> >>> think finding the federal law wouldn't be too hard, but some rules
>> >>> vary
>> >>> state by state.  I'm having trouble tracking down the information for
>> >>> TN,
>> >>> for example.  Anyway, here is the federal law (I think).
>> >>>
>> >>> *Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act*
>> >>>
>> >>> The Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act of 1984
>> >>> generally requires polling places across the United States to be
>> >>> physically
>> >>> accessible to people with disabilities for federal elections. Where
>> >>> no
>> >>> accessible location is available to serve as a polling place, a
>> >>> political
>> >>> subdivision must provide an alternate means of casting a ballot on
>> >>> the
>> >>> day
>> >>> of the election. This law also requires states to make available
>> >>> registration and voting aids for disabled and elderly voters,
>> >>> including
>> >>> information by TTYs (also known as TDDs) or similar devices. For more
>> >>> information, contact:
>> >>>
>> >>> U.S. Department of Justice
>> >>> Civil Rights Division
>> >>> 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
>> >>> Voting Section - 1800 G
>> >>> Washington, D.C. 20530
>> >>>
>> >>> (800) 253-3931 (voice/TTY)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> *National Voter Registration Act*
>> >>>
>> >>> The National Voter Registration Act of 1993, also known as the "Motor
>> >>> Voter Act," makes it easier for all Americans to exercise their
>> >>> fundamental
>> >>> right to vote. One of the basic purposes of the Act is to increase
>> >>> the
>> >>> historically low registration rates of minorities and persons with
>> >>> disabilities that have resulted from discrimination. The Motor Voter
>> Act
>> >>> requires all offices of State-funded programs that are primarily
>> engaged
>> >>> in
>> >>> providing services to persons with disabilities to provide all
>> >>> program
>> >>> applicants with voter registration forms, to assist them in
>> >>> completing
>> >>> the
>> >>> forms, and to transmit completed forms to the appropriate State
>> >>> official.
>> >>> For more information, contact:
>> >>>
>> >>> U.S. Department of Justice
>> >>> Civil Rights Division
>> >>> 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
>> >>> Voting Section - 1800 G
>> >>> Washington, D.C. 20530
>> >>>
>> >>> www.usdoj.gov/crt/voting
>> >>>
>> >>> (800) 253-3931 (voice/TTY)
>> >>>
>> >>> It seems that the NFB has a lot of lawyers.  Is it possible for us to
>> >>> get
>> >>> someone trained in law to help us with this one?
>> >>>
>> >>> Here is another good resource, the Department of Justice:
>> >>> http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/drs/
>> >>>
>> >>> One question I have is, why aren't ALL voting machines accessible?
>> >>> It
>> >>> seems like this is more of a software issue.  Would it not be
>> >>> possible
>> >>> to
>> >>> write accessible software to be used on all machines?
>> >>>
>> >>> One other thing is that we should encourage people to file a
>> >>> complaint
>> >>> if
>> >>> they have these aforementioned problems this year and in the future.
>>  We
>> >>> (the NFB) should provide information on that, as well.
>> >>>
>> >>> While I think this is a concern for the whole NFB on a national
>> >>> level,
>> I
>> >>> think as students, we are in a good spot to target new voters and
>> >>> college
>> >>> students who have not voted before.  Maybe we could draft a brochure
>> >>> about
>> >>> rights and responsibilities and general information (maybe even for
>> >>> people
>> >>> who aren't blind but are disabled?) and make sure it gets distributed
>> at
>> >>> voter registration drives going on campus.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cindy also makes a good point about getting to the voting place.
>> >>> Also,
>> >>> this will become even more difficult in many states that require
>> >>> valid
>> >>> state IDs (like TN, AL, AR, etc.).  How should we deal with this?
>> >>>
>> >>> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>> >>>     ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Cynthia Bennett
>> >>> <clb5590 at gmail.com>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Stephanie:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> That is a great idea. I had a similar experience as Josh as I voted
>> >>>> in
>> >>>> my first election. They were the 2008 primaries, and I was very
>> >>>> excited. When the machine did not work, I asked a poll worker to
>> >>>> assist me. They filled in the ballot as I wished, but the worker did
>> >>>> make some comments about their preference on a politician. This
>> >>>> occured when I said that I did not want to vote for a particular
>> >>>> office, because I was unfamiliar with any of the candidates. I said
>> >>>> something like, "I don't want to fill in anything for this," and the
>> >>>> worker responded with "Oh, I heard that ___ is pretty good. Do you
>> >>>> want me to fill in his/her name?" I chose to still not vote for that
>> >>>> particular office. This practice is illegal, and I chose not to say
>> >>>> anything about it. But I do think that an informational call about
>> >>>> rights and accessible voting machines would be awesome.
>> >>>> Unfortunately,
>> >>>> each state is a little different, but information about federal
>> >>>> mandates on the presence of accessible voting machines/rights and
>> >>>> some
>> >>>> typical patterns in accessible voting in states would be great. For
>> >>>> example, Washington conducts mail ballots. There are a few precincts
>> >>>> around town, but if you work in a neighborhood in which it takes a
>> >>>> while to get to a precinct, you are at a disadvantage as a blind
>> >>>> person. So, you can either take off work and use public
>> >>>> transportation
>> >>>> to navigate to one of the few and very busy precincts and wait in a
>> >>>> 3-hour line, or you can find a reader and disclose your voting
>> >>>> preferences. The other animal in this issue is that if you choose to
>> >>>> get a reader to fill out your signature does not match the signature
>> >>>> on your state ID which is kept on file, then your ballot can be
>> >>>> deemed
>> >>>> as false and not counted. As a blind person, I do the best I can
>> >>>> with
>> >>>> my signature, but I do think that even the most ambitious blind
>> >>>> people
>> >>>> are at a disadvantage when having to match a signature, and our
>> >>>> ballots could not be counted, and we may not hear about it, or we
>> >>>> would learn of it after elections are closed. If we are afraid that
>> >>>> our signature may not match that of our state ID, then we can have 2
>> >>>> witnesses sign. But that is 2 more people that have to see my
>> >>>> ballot.
>> >>>> I do not think that this practice is common within the states, and I
>> >>>> would definitely not like my experience to dominate the nature of
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> call, but I wanted to relay it to show that I think this is a very
>> >>>> good idea. I would personally like some professional/legal
>> >>>> advice/legal suggestions on how this can be changed.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So, if you have any suggestions on people to conduct this call, or
>> >>>> resources for where this information can be found, please share it.
>> >>>> If
>> >>>> not, the membership committee will certainly take the initiative to
>> >>>> conduct an informative call if we do in fact decide to pursue this
>> >>>> topic. But I wanted to make sure that since you made the suggestion,
>> >>>> you are welcome to provide suggestions on people to conduct the
>> >>>> call.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I know that someone comes to each NC state convention with an
>> >>>> accessible voting machine to show in the exhibit hall. During this
>> >>>> time, people can vote in a fake election and orient themselves to
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> machine. I am not sure if NC is still doing this since it has been a
>> >>>> few years since the accessible machines were introduced, but I think
>> >>>> there is still a need for outreach about accessible voting.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Keep the good membership call suggestions coming!
>> >>>> Cindy
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 8/27/12, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>> > Hi, Stephanie!
>> >>>> > That's a great idea!
>> >>>> > I went to my voting site, earlier this year, and the machine
>> >>>> > didn't
>> >>>> work.
>> >>>> > My Disability Rights person that works for the governor, here said
>> >>>> he'd come
>> >>>> > down, to show them how to work it, but he never showed up!
>> >>>> > Thanks, Joshua
>> >>>> > ________________________________________
>> >>>> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on
>> behalf
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> > Stephanie DeLuca [sjhhirst at gmail.com]
>> >>>> > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 2:53 PM
>> >>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS Membership Call Survey
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > I think a discussion on voting as people with disabilities would
>> >>>> > be
>> >>>> good.
>> >>>> > Since a lot of people are on college campuses, it'd be a good
>> >>>> opportunity to
>> >>>> > get involved with informing people with disabilities (mainly VI)
>> >>>> > about
>> >>>> > rights and responsibilities for voting.  I've been to/worked at
>> >>>> > several
>> >>>> > voter registration drives, and I have NEVER seen information on
>> >>>> > voting
>> >>>> if
>> >>>> > you have a disability.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:32 PM, Cody Bair <codyjbair at yahoo.com>
>> >>>> > wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >> Hi All,
>> >>>> >> As you are probably already aware, NABS conducts monthly
>> >>>> >> membership
>> >>>> calls.
>> >>>> >> In order to get this school year started we are currently seeking
>> >>>> >> your
>> >>>> >> input on what topics you would like to see us cover this year.
>> >>>> >> Please
>> >>>> >> either reply directly to this thread with your suggestions or
>> >>>> >> mail
>> >>>> them
>> >>>> >> directly to
>> >>>> >> Nabs.membership at gmail.com
>> >>>> >> Sincerely,
>> >>>> >> The NABS membership Committee
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
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>> >>>> >
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Cynthia Bennett
>> >>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> >>>>
>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> >>>> 828.989.5383
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
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>>
>> --
>> Cynthia Bennett
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 828.989.5383
>>
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