[nabs-l] ID's and Voting

[Cynthia Bennett]

Oh I totally agree. And, it is common for sighted people to have
nondriving licenses since many people who live in cities just don't
drive.

The stamp is a good idea, and not just for voting. I hadn't thought of
that. Where would you get a custom stamp made?

Cindy

On 8/27/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I think it is fair for a blind person to need to get a state ID card
> or non-driving license. Going to the DMV sucks but it sucks for
> sighted people too. Having some kind of legal identification is just
> part of living in this country as an adult and enables us to
> participate in all the same activities as those with drivers'
> licenses, including flying on airplanes and passing the age test to
> buy alcohol (I don't think student ID is acceptable for either of
> these things, whether you are sighted or blind). I do, however, agree
> that requiring a blind person to give a signature that matches one on
> file is probably unfair even if it is not intended to be
> discriminatory. A blind person could get around this by signing with a
> stamp, though I'm not sure how long those last.
> Arielle
> On 8/27/12, Stephanie H. DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hm my main concern with the IDs is that people have to get to the DMV
>> somehow.  In places like Nashville, that's not exactly straightforward.
>> I
>> guess they could take a cab?  It just sucks because, I think before,
>> people
>> could just use a student ID (speaking about our own age group).  Now, the
>> states have made it more difficult than it already was.
>>
>> Rhode Island has an interesting approach to this (and someone correct me
>> if
>> I'm wrong).  If you don't have a state ID on you at the polling place,
>> you
>> can sign an affidavit of identity, which basically just certifies that
>> you
>> are who you say you are.  I like this idea (well, except for the whole
>> signature thing, which I had never thought about).
>>
>> http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx
>>
>>
>> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>>     ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Cynthia Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Stephanie:
>>>
>>> This is great informaition. Thanks for going so much in depth.
>>>
>>> The ID issue is the easiest. I don't know of a state that doesn't
>>> offer a nondriving photo ID. This can be obtained wherever you would
>>> go to get your driver's license. It looks just like and contains all
>>> of the information that a driver's license contains. It is a
>>> legitimate form of ID. I had no problems at the precincts in NC when I
>>> showed my photo ID.
>>>
>>> Where ID's relate to my concern is that when you get your ID, you have
>>> to sign the bottom. The DMV that I went to had an electronic pad that
>>> you sign with a stylus. I typically like to place a finger down on a
>>> paper to orient myself before I write my signature. But touching the
>>> electronic pad made a finger print. After a few unsuccessful tries,
>>> the agent gave me an index card, and they elected to process my
>>> signature the old way. This was helpful, but even though I have been
>>> signing my name since I was 7, I really don't have any way of knowing
>>> if I have signed my name exactly the way it looks on my state ID; this
>>> signature is kept on file with the state so they don't actually have
>>> to look at your ID to see it. I know that the intentions of this are
>>> good and in place to prevent voter fraud, but as a blind person, I
>>> feel like it pretty much gives me no choice but to find 2 witnesses to
>>> sign my ballot and varify my signature, and I think that is unfair
>>> since a sighted person can fill out their ballot independently and
>>> forego the long precinct lines since they are located far and few
>>> between due to the mailed-out ballots being the primary method used
>>> for voting.
>>>
>>> I'm sure the membership committee will look at all of this information
>>> and decide if this call is a good idea, which I think we will, and we
>>> will work to find appropriate people to conduct the call. Thanks so
>>> much for the information. It was really great to read.
>>>
>>> And, I go by Cindy so that's fine.
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>> On 8/27/12, Stephanie H. DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > This website is very informative.  The following link takes you to a
>>> > page
>>> > where they have links to several laws relevant to people with
>>> disabilities.
>>> >
>>> > http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=Laws
>>> >
>>> > In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>>> >     ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 10:48 PM, Stephanie H. DeLuca
>>> > <sjhhirst at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Heh, I mean Cynthia, sorry!
>>> >>
>>> >> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>>> >>     ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Stephanie H. DeLuca
>>> >> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> I'm excited to see that other people support the idea of getting
>>> >>> involved
>>> >>> but sad to admit that it's a problem.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> My story is this:  In 2008, I went for early voting at one of the
>>> >>> designated places in Nashville.  When it was my turn, they
>>> >>> designated
>>> >>> a
>>> >>> polling machine to me.  Before I began the process, I asked about
>>> >>> assisted
>>> >>> voting.  Maybe I should have asked about accessible polling
>>> >>> machines?
>>> >>>  Anyway, he just said he'd have to help me and that was the only
>>> >>> option
>>> >>> I
>>> >>> had.  I turned him down and went through the process myself (I do
>>> >>> have
>>> >>> some
>>> >>> vision).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It seems that the voting issues fall into a few categories:
>>> >>> 1) lack of knowledge of rights/responsibilities on behalf of the
>>> >>> voter
>>> >>> 2) lack of training and knowledge of polling staff
>>> >>> 3) lack of a functioning accessible voting machine on site
>>> >>> 4) difficult-to-follow tutorials/instructions for the accessible
>>> machine
>>> >>>
>>> >>> For me, numbers 1 and 2 seem to be the biggest problems.  How do we
>>> >>> get
>>> >>> the word out and how do we insure that the people at the polling
>>> >>> places
>>> >>> are
>>> >>> trained and that there is a funcitoning machine available?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I like the idea about having demos.  Barring that, would it be
>>> >>> possible
>>> >>> to record a tutorial and post it online?  Maybe by someone who has
>>> >>> used
>>> >>> it
>>> >>> recently?  I've heard that the tutorial provided at the polling
>>> >>> place
>>> is
>>> >>> often not straightforward or easy to follow and that a blind user
>>> >>> could
>>> >>> do
>>> >>> a better job haha
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I think we should at the very least inform people of their rights.
>>> >>> I
>>> >>> think finding the federal law wouldn't be too hard, but some rules
>>> >>> vary
>>> >>> state by state.  I'm having trouble tracking down the information
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> TN,
>>> >>> for example.  Anyway, here is the federal law (I think).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act*
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act of 1984
>>> >>> generally requires polling places across the United States to be
>>> >>> physically
>>> >>> accessible to people with disabilities for federal elections. Where
>>> >>> no
>>> >>> accessible location is available to serve as a polling place, a
>>> >>> political
>>> >>> subdivision must provide an alternate means of casting a ballot on
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> day
>>> >>> of the election. This law also requires states to make available
>>> >>> registration and voting aids for disabled and elderly voters,
>>> >>> including
>>> >>> information by TTYs (also known as TDDs) or similar devices. For
>>> >>> more
>>> >>> information, contact:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> U.S. Department of Justice
>>> >>> Civil Rights Division
>>> >>> 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
>>> >>> Voting Section - 1800 G
>>> >>> Washington, D.C. 20530
>>> >>>
>>> >>> (800) 253-3931 (voice/TTY)
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *National Voter Registration Act*
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The National Voter Registration Act of 1993, also known as the
>>> >>> "Motor
>>> >>> Voter Act," makes it easier for all Americans to exercise their
>>> >>> fundamental
>>> >>> right to vote. One of the basic purposes of the Act is to increase
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> historically low registration rates of minorities and persons with
>>> >>> disabilities that have resulted from discrimination. The Motor Voter
>>> Act
>>> >>> requires all offices of State-funded programs that are primarily
>>> engaged
>>> >>> in
>>> >>> providing services to persons with disabilities to provide all
>>> >>> program
>>> >>> applicants with voter registration forms, to assist them in
>>> >>> completing
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> forms, and to transmit completed forms to the appropriate State
>>> >>> official.
>>> >>> For more information, contact:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> U.S. Department of Justice
>>> >>> Civil Rights Division
>>> >>> 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
>>> >>> Voting Section - 1800 G
>>> >>> Washington, D.C. 20530
>>> >>>
>>> >>> www.usdoj.gov/crt/voting
>>> >>>
>>> >>> (800) 253-3931 (voice/TTY)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It seems that the NFB has a lot of lawyers.  Is it possible for us
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> get
>>> >>> someone trained in law to help us with this one?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Here is another good resource, the Department of Justice:
>>> >>> http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/drs/
>>> >>>
>>> >>> One question I have is, why aren't ALL voting machines accessible?
>>> >>> It
>>> >>> seems like this is more of a software issue.  Would it not be
>>> >>> possible
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> write accessible software to be used on all machines?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> One other thing is that we should encourage people to file a
>>> >>> complaint
>>> >>> if
>>> >>> they have these aforementioned problems this year and in the future.
>>>  We
>>> >>> (the NFB) should provide information on that, as well.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> While I think this is a concern for the whole NFB on a national
>>> >>> level,
>>> I
>>> >>> think as students, we are in a good spot to target new voters and
>>> >>> college
>>> >>> students who have not voted before.  Maybe we could draft a brochure
>>> >>> about
>>> >>> rights and responsibilities and general information (maybe even for
>>> >>> people
>>> >>> who aren't blind but are disabled?) and make sure it gets
>>> >>> distributed
>>> at
>>> >>> voter registration drives going on campus.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Cindy also makes a good point about getting to the voting place.
>>> >>> Also,
>>> >>> this will become even more difficult in many states that require
>>> >>> valid
>>> >>> state IDs (like TN, AL, AR, etc.).  How should we deal with this?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>>> >>>     ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Cynthia Bennett
>>> >>> <clb5590 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Stephanie:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> That is a great idea. I had a similar experience as Josh as I voted
>>> >>>> in
>>> >>>> my first election. They were the 2008 primaries, and I was very
>>> >>>> excited. When the machine did not work, I asked a poll worker to
>>> >>>> assist me. They filled in the ballot as I wished, but the worker
>>> >>>> did
>>> >>>> make some comments about their preference on a politician. This
>>> >>>> occured when I said that I did not want to vote for a particular
>>> >>>> office, because I was unfamiliar with any of the candidates. I said
>>> >>>> something like, "I don't want to fill in anything for this," and
>>> >>>> the
>>> >>>> worker responded with "Oh, I heard that ___ is pretty good. Do you
>>> >>>> want me to fill in his/her name?" I chose to still not vote for
>>> >>>> that
>>> >>>> particular office. This practice is illegal, and I chose not to say
>>> >>>> anything about it. But I do think that an informational call about
>>> >>>> rights and accessible voting machines would be awesome.
>>> >>>> Unfortunately,
>>> >>>> each state is a little different, but information about federal
>>> >>>> mandates on the presence of accessible voting machines/rights and
>>> >>>> some
>>> >>>> typical patterns in accessible voting in states would be great. For
>>> >>>> example, Washington conducts mail ballots. There are a few
>>> >>>> precincts
>>> >>>> around town, but if you work in a neighborhood in which it takes a
>>> >>>> while to get to a precinct, you are at a disadvantage as a blind
>>> >>>> person. So, you can either take off work and use public
>>> >>>> transportation
>>> >>>> to navigate to one of the few and very busy precincts and wait in a
>>> >>>> 3-hour line, or you can find a reader and disclose your voting
>>> >>>> preferences. The other animal in this issue is that if you choose
>>> >>>> to
>>> >>>> get a reader to fill out your signature does not match the
>>> >>>> signature
>>> >>>> on your state ID which is kept on file, then your ballot can be
>>> >>>> deemed
>>> >>>> as false and not counted. As a blind person, I do the best I can
>>> >>>> with
>>> >>>> my signature, but I do think that even the most ambitious blind
>>> >>>> people
>>> >>>> are at a disadvantage when having to match a signature, and our
>>> >>>> ballots could not be counted, and we may not hear about it, or we
>>> >>>> would learn of it after elections are closed. If we are afraid that
>>> >>>> our signature may not match that of our state ID, then we can have
>>> >>>> 2
>>> >>>> witnesses sign. But that is 2 more people that have to see my
>>> >>>> ballot.
>>> >>>> I do not think that this practice is common within the states, and
>>> >>>> I
>>> >>>> would definitely not like my experience to dominate the nature of
>>> >>>> the
>>> >>>> call, but I wanted to relay it to show that I think this is a very
>>> >>>> good idea. I would personally like some professional/legal
>>> >>>> advice/legal suggestions on how this can be changed.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> So, if you have any suggestions on people to conduct this call, or
>>> >>>> resources for where this information can be found, please share it.
>>> >>>> If
>>> >>>> not, the membership committee will certainly take the initiative to
>>> >>>> conduct an informative call if we do in fact decide to pursue this
>>> >>>> topic. But I wanted to make sure that since you made the
>>> >>>> suggestion,
>>> >>>> you are welcome to provide suggestions on people to conduct the
>>> >>>> call.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I know that someone comes to each NC state convention with an
>>> >>>> accessible voting machine to show in the exhibit hall. During this
>>> >>>> time, people can vote in a fake election and orient themselves to
>>> >>>> the
>>> >>>> machine. I am not sure if NC is still doing this since it has been
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>> few years since the accessible machines were introduced, but I
>>> >>>> think
>>> >>>> there is still a need for outreach about accessible voting.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Keep the good membership call suggestions coming!
>>> >>>> Cindy
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On 8/27/12, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>> > Hi, Stephanie!
>>> >>>> > That's a great idea!
>>> >>>> > I went to my voting site, earlier this year, and the machine
>>> >>>> > didn't
>>> >>>> work.
>>> >>>> > My Disability Rights person that works for the governor, here
>>> >>>> > said
>>> >>>> he'd come
>>> >>>> > down, to show them how to work it, but he never showed up!
>>> >>>> > Thanks, Joshua
>>> >>>> > ________________________________________
>>> >>>> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on
>>> behalf
>>> >>>> of
>>> >>>> > Stephanie DeLuca [sjhhirst at gmail.com]
>>> >>>> > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 2:53 PM
>>> >>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS Membership Call Survey
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I think a discussion on voting as people with disabilities would
>>> >>>> > be
>>> >>>> good.
>>> >>>> > Since a lot of people are on college campuses, it'd be a good
>>> >>>> opportunity to
>>> >>>> > get involved with informing people with disabilities (mainly VI)
>>> >>>> > about
>>> >>>> > rights and responsibilities for voting.  I've been to/worked at
>>> >>>> > several
>>> >>>> > voter registration drives, and I have NEVER seen information on
>>> >>>> > voting
>>> >>>> if
>>> >>>> > you have a disability.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:32 PM, Cody Bair <codyjbair at yahoo.com>
>>> >>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >> Hi All,
>>> >>>> >> As you are probably already aware, NABS conducts monthly
>>> >>>> >> membership
>>> >>>> calls.
>>> >>>> >> In order to get this school year started we are currently
>>> >>>> >> seeking
>>> >>>> >> your
>>> >>>> >> input on what topics you would like to see us cover this year.
>>> >>>> >> Please
>>> >>>> >> either reply directly to this thread with your suggestions or
>>> >>>> >> mail
>>> >>>> them
>>> >>>> >> directly to
>>> >>>> >> Nabs.membership at gmail.com
>>> >>>> >> Sincerely,
>>> >>>> >> The NABS membership Committee
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
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>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
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>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
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>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Cynthia Bennett
>>> >>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>> >>>> 828.989.5383
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Cynthia Bennett
>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>
>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>> 828.989.5383
>>>
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-- 
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383