[nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
Mark J. Cadigan
kramc11 at gmail.com
Fri Feb 10 04:00:04 UTC 2012
Frandi,
I am by no means a pacifist, but with that being said, violence on school
grounds in today’s society if the teachers decide to take notice will serve
nothing but to get you a criminal record which will hurt your chances of
getting into your dream college. Sometimes, bullies have to be introduced to
old thunder and lightening, however, getting into a fist fight at school is
about the worst thing you could do in this situation.
Once out of school, or off school grounds, if backed into a corner,
sometimes it is necessary to swing back either physically or metaphorically.
But doing anything I repeat anything that could be construed as aggressive
at school will only harm the victim more.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: <frandi.galindo at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
> For Those of you who hate the violence, do so, but please read the
> messages very carefully. Bullying has been, and will always be around, we
> are just hearing about it now. Why, because the news and the papers only
> show those that are worthy enough to be included in the news. For
> example, the ones where the kid who got picked on shows up at school with
> some kind of weapon, and vice versa. Yes violence is certainly not the
> answer, but sometimes that is the only way a bully will learn.
> For decades I am sure schools have been telling kids that the way to deal
> with a bully is to go and tell on them. That may be a temporary fix, but
> eventually the bully will retaliate. AWhat may have been a piece of food
> in a drink, a barrage of name calling, or the placement of a cane in
> another part of the school, may turn out to be something more. The
> bullying may increase dromatically, or it may get kicked up a bit. Who
> knows. But hiding behind the skirts of a grown-up won't keep you safe for
> the rest of your life. In the world we humans have created, we all in
> someway have to stand up for ourselves. Take the following situations for
> example:
> Lets say you are walking down the street minding your own business when
> all of the sudden a mugger stops you in your tracks and demands for your
> wallet and valuables. I don't think telling him to stop or hiding in
> every possible nook will keep you from getting your stuff stolen. In that
> situation you could either defend yourselve, shout out, or just simply
> give him or her what she or he is asking for. However, lets say you give
> him or her the things that he or she ask for. Now the thief could either
> beat the crap out of you, and run, kill you and run, or just simply run.
> Most likely he or she will take option C. Now you most likely wouldn't
> get killed by a mugger because he or she just wants to get your shit and
> run for his or her life.
> Now lets say you were at a bar or a club and some dude decided to give you
> a left hook because, well why else, because you were in his way. I don't
> think you would be like, "stop sir that hurt." That might just get you
> another smack. That’s when you have to stand up for yourself. If you
> show him or her what you are made of he or she might just stop, or that
> person just might come back for more. You could also inform security, and
> have that person thrown out. You may have gotten that person thrown out
> of said establishment, but he or she could be waiting for you out in the
> parking lot with a score to settle. Their again you might have to defend
> yourself.
> Now lets say you have just gotten to work, punched in, went to your
> cubical, and begun your days work. A group of co-workers have just dumped
> their unwanted work on you as they do every day. You see the pile and
> decide that you have had enough. Not only because you are falling behind
> on your own work, but because your are sick of getting walked on. Before
> you have a chance to do anything about it, your boss has just informed you
> about complaints she received about your mistakes you have repeatedly
> made. After enquiring as to what mistakes these might be, you discover
> that the falt is not your own, but with one of those who has dumped their
> work on you. This co-worker has used you as a scape goat. Enough is
> enough, but you obviously can't use violence to solve this problem. You
> still need to stand up for yourself so you refuse to do the pile of
> unwanted work that your other co-workers threw at you. Eventually the
> unwanted work stops coming because your co-workers start getting in
> trouble for not getting their work done.
> Obviously these are just examples. In one of the previous e-mails, Andi
> wrote about what the person should do about his bullying problems. Many
> of you keep on giving him the same repetative answers that schools and so
> called bully experts give school children, but none of you have told him
> to stand up. And yes he tried telling, but as you can see from the
> e-mails, the bullying has started up again. I am sure The person beeing
> bullied has tried those solutions, and now Its time he stood up for
> himself.
> I don't mean to offend anybody on this list because you all gave excelent
> advice, but now its time for this person who is getting bullied to grow
> some balls. Dude, stand up for yourself. Like Andi said
> "
> There is no telling what will make a particular bully stop
>> harassing you but two things are sertain telling on him or her will only
>> make it worse and you just have to stand up to them in some way shape or
>> form. If you can start with as little of confrentation nesesary to make
>> your point, but if it doesn't work you have to escalate the comebacks.
>> Sometimes a simple clever comment will do it but sometimes more is
>> needed. I know the saying two rongs don't make a right and that is fine
>> and dandy in a perfict world but it doesn't apply to the real world. Of
>> course you shouldn't be a bully yourself but if you don't defend yourself
>> nothing can help you."
> Andi gave some ways of defending himself that seemed violent to some of
> you, and she also gave some solutions that weren't at all violent. I
> believe before we all decide to jump down someones throat about something
> someone replies about, we should all read everything before deciding to
> reply. Remember people, you won't always be behind a grownup's skirts when
> you enter the real world.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 6:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>
> Mark,
> I was going to say the same; sadly, violence is violence and they do not
> look at the situation-- the fact you are defending yourself. So tell the
> faculty and administrators; you can also defend yourself but in nonviolent
> ways like avoiding the bully; telling him to stop; since you cannot see,
> get
> friends to tell you if he is coming. Things like that.
> Hope it stops
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark J. Cadigan
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 5:50 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I'd just like to comment on Andi's post.
>
>
>
> The times have changed since we were in middle school. Escalating to
> physical violence is an incredibly bad idea in today's hyper sensitive
> society. The teachers will only penalize you for defending yourself; this
> means you have to do so in more creative, non-violent, ways. This is not
> to
> say that self defense has no place, however, the best self defense is to
> avoid the situation all together.
>
>
>
> Another thing, remember, that you could be charged with a crime, assault,
> for hitting someone else, and don't think the DA won't charge someone who
> is
> blind. If you hit with anything besides bare hands, or carry or god forbid
> use anything that could be considered a weapon even in self defense, the
> charges get more serious.
>
>
>
> To all middle school and high school students reading this, remember that
> reporting events like the one Chris described is the best option. If you
> report it, and it is documented you report it, the school is liable for
> anything that happens due to there inaction. So, if this happens to you,
> tell a teacher, tell your parents, and tell the bully to stop. Also, stand
> buy your friends. If someone is bullying your friend, tell them to stop.
> If
> you watch your buddies back, he will watch yours.
>
>
>
> Keep safe, and watch your 6
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andi" <adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 5:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>
>
>> The only efective way to deal with a bully is to show him or her that you
>> will not take the crap he or she dishes out. Depending on the situation
>> this can be done in different ways but telling the principal or teacher
>> doesn't do anything except convey to the bully that you cant deal with it
>> yourself. This is probably not true but that is how a bully thinks and
>> usually doesn't give a secont thought to what athorities have to say.
>> This attitude on the bullies part will only ensight more bullying and it
>> will get worse. I spent most of my elementary recess on top of the swing
>> set because most other kids could not climb up their to get me. When I
>> didn't make it up the poles in time I was severely beaten up or had my
>> face ground in to the dirt. That treatment started out as simple yet
>> anoying things like you menchend with the pretsals and yogurt and
>> escolated to violence. I diden't fight back because I was told it would
>> go on my permanent record if I got in trouble. I told the teachers who
>> did nothing and told the principal who did call the kids out on it but
>> that made it worse because the bullies got mad. I tripped one of the
>> perpetrators with my cane as he was getting off the buss once and he new
>> I did it on perpous because I winked and smiled malistiously at him. He
>> never hirt me again and started defending me against other bullies. It
>> is not always that simple though and sometimes requires more
>> confrentation. However sometimes you can avoid confrentation all together
>> by appearing tough. I joind the wrestling team when I was in seventh
>> grade and won a lot of matches. Word spread about the tough blind chick
>> wrestler, and people stopped messing with me. That is people who were
>> not on the team. My team mates were not happy about having a female on
>> the team and tride to brake my nec with illegal moves and tripping me
>> when we did our laps on the stairs. Their was nothing I could do except
>> beet them up and their were to many of them for that to work so I had to
>> endure it, when they saw I was going on with my life despite their
>> sabotage atempts and becoming a better athleet because of it many of the
>> main offenders quit the team by the time I reached highschool. Another
>> bully I simply yelld at and he was so shocked the blind girl new who he
>> was and what he was doing he stopped right then and their. There is no
>> telling what will make a particular bully stop harassing you but two
>> things are sertain telling on him or her will only make it worse and you
>> just have to stand up to them in some way shape or form. If you can
>> start with as little of confrentation nesesary to make your point, but if
>> it doesn't work you have to escalate the comebacks. Sometimes a simple
>> clever comment will do it but sometimes more is needed. I know the saying
>> two rongs don't make a right and that is fine and dandy in a perfict
>> world but it doesn't apply to the real world. Of course you shouldn't be
>> a bully yourself but if you don't defend yourself nothing can help you.
>> I wish some one would have told me that when I was younger it would have
>> saved a lot of heart ake and bodily damage.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 4:15 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>
>> Good point. He's known to be a pain in the butt throughout the
>> school. So, I don't think it was just me, although this was a
>> "joke" on the "blind guy," but he's probably pulling the same
>> pranks on others. I just hope that whatever happens to him after
>> this incident will stop him from doing anything like this to
>> anyone, not just me.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists. If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 14:34:19 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>
>> One more thing-I don't think these kinds of things are just about
>> blindness. While your bully might be playing tricks on you that
>> take
>> advantage of your blindness, he might easily be playing different
>> kinds of jokes on other kids. He should definitely get in
>> trouble, but
>> what he's doing to you isn't necessarily worse than what he might
>> do
>> to other kids. That is, unless he's tripping you or otherwise
>> threatening your physical safety. If it goes from pranking you
>> to
>> harming you, you will need to get more adults involved.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 2/4/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I agree about having friends watch your back. The most
>> effective way
>> to keep from being picked on by this particular guy again is
>> simply to
>> avoid him-try not to sit at his lunch table or come in contact
>> with
>> him in other ways. Your friends should be able to help you
>> accomplish
>> this.
>> Also, if you try not to give him opportunities to tease you, and
>> just
>> give him as little reaction as possible when he does pull
>> something,
>> he should soon get bored and stop pranking you. These kinds of
>> people
>> thrive on attention. Confronting him about what he did will
>> likely
>> just egg him on.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 2/3/12, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at comcast.net> wrote:
>> That's pretty bad putting your bad of pretzels in your water.
>> Hopefully
>> it
>> was just one of those small individual sixed bags and not the
>> really bit
>> ones. I'd be sad if someone did that especially if it was a big
>> bag of
>> them.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 5:10 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>
>> This is not the kind of thing that you put in an IEP.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 4:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>
>>
>> Hi Chris. I'm assuming you're in high school.. I'd go to
>> both your
>> principal and your guidance counselor. I wouldn't talk to him
>> directly--
>> I
>>
>> think he'd get more dicipline if you had the principal talk to
>> him. I'd
>> also bring it up during your IEP/PET.
>> HTH
>> Hope and Beignet
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 6:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>
>>
>> I knew this kid, speaking of criminals who were playground and
>> school
>> bullies, who was always harassing me, got mein trouble at lunch
>> one day
>> in
>>
>> elementary school, and later went on to rape somebody and go to
>> jail for
>> it.
>> Beth
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:41:07 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>
>> When I was in elementary school, I had kids stealing books from
>> me,
>> throwing erasers in my hair, pulling chairs out from under me,
>> you
>> name it, they did it. The worst part was that most times, my
>> teachers
>> were right there, and refused to do anything about it, because
>> they
>> too were uncomfortable with my blindness, so why should they
>> intervene? I say this because it wasn't so long ago that this
>> happened
>> to me. I grew up in the 90's, before bullying was the huge deal
>> it is
>> now, but still close enough to the events of Columbine that it
>> wasn't
>> completely unheard of either. And it was as "unacceptable" then
>> as it
>> is now. Yes, I put unacceptable in quotes, because guess what,
>> it
>> happens every day and so little of it is actually dealt with.
>> Meanwhile, things that are no real problem at all are resulting
>> in
>> criminal records, such as a case I heard about recently where a
>> boy
>> gave his friend a hug in school and was charged with sexual
>> harassment. I forget their exact ages, but they were young,
>> elementary
>> school age. And yet, kids are driven to suicide, depression,
>> drugs,
>> and every other dysfunction in the book, because they're bullied
>> mercilessly every day and no one will do anything about it.
>> Why do I say all this? I say it because I hope your school isn't
>> like
>> mine was. I hope that someone in authority actually cares. I
>> hope that
>> it doesn't escalate, because most kids have a cruel streak. I
>> think
>> it's true what they say about the impulsiveness of
>> adolescents--it's
>> human nature to be cruel, and at that age, most of us haven't
>> learned
>> how to control those impulses or aggressions, making them the
>> most
>> prone not only to selfishness and thoughtlessness, but to almost
>> animal rage, not to mention an inability to see beyond their own
>> actions to how they might be affecting others. My point is,
>> people
>> like this have to be stopped. Perhaps if something can get
>> through to
>> them while they're still young and impressionable, they might
>> not grow
>> up to be tomorrow's criminals. Or maybe they will, who knows.
>> But I've
>> seen enough to know what usually happens in these situations,
>> even if
>> it was 15 years ago; and, in saying that, I hope things have
>> evolved
>> at least a little bit since then. It makes me sick to read
>> messages
>> like this. I hope for your sake that these small actions do not
>> go
>> untouched. Right now this kid is probably testing the waters,
>> seeing
>> just how much he can get away with. If he can steal a pack of
>> gum, so
>> to speak, he may try to steal a candy bar next, then a bag of
>> chips,
>> and on and on it goes, you get the picture.
>>
>> On 2/1/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Chris, I know what you're going through.
>> I had a girl, put a dead frog in my shirt, as we were playing
>> outside,
>> (I was in elementary school, when that happened.)
>> Go to your principal, and he/she should do something.
>> This stuff has got to stop!
>> If they don't do anything, go in front of the schoolboard!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 2/1/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I had a problem at school today that I'd like to get your
>> thoughts on as to what I should do next. Today during lunch,
>> another kid at my table dumped his bag of pretzels into my water
>> bottle without my knowing; he must have thought it was some kind
>> of funny prank. Fortunately, I was sitting next to a good
>> friend
>> of mine, who told me about this. Even after multiple people
>> commented negatively about what he did, he said nothing.
>>
>> Variations on this have happened before with this same kid as
>> the
>> perpetrater; only once before today this school year and 3 times
>> last year. The one time something like this happened this year,
>> he put his dirty napkin in my Yogurt cup (after I had finished
>> eating the Yogurt) without saying anything. The first time
>> (with
>> the napkin,) I realized that this had happened as I was getting
>> my trash together to throw it away. Knowing who did it, since
>> he'd done this kind of thing before last year, I said, "(Insert
>> name,) why is your napkin in my Yogurt?" Knowing that he had
>> been
>> caught, he replied, "Oh... sorry." I then talked to the lunch
>> lady who is in charge of supervising all of us in the lunchroom.
>> She said she would talk to him. I wasn't there when she did,
>> but
>> apparently she had, as the problem (for about a month and a
>> half)
>> had been resolved... that is, until today.
>>
>> I feel that this is a person taking advantage of my blindness
>> and
>> playing a "prank" on me knowing that I won't catch him. So,
>> what
>> do you think I should do next? Should I go to our principal?
>> Should I talk to him directly? Any suggestions would be greatly
>> appreciated!
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists. If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
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