[nabs-l] Please Change the Subject Line was Re: Microsoft productaccessibility

[Gloria G]

I would do that if there wasn't an issues when I use the nabs mailing list 
email address. When i try to send a new message I get an email that says 
something about an error. So sorry that this interupted your reading in any 
way. I didn't think it was such a big deal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 10:17 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Please Change the Subject Line was Re: Microsoft 
productaccessibility


> Please either start a new thread or change the subject line, especially 
> when the new topic is not related to the old.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 7:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility
>
>
>> Hi,
>> Has anyone used blackboard for classes? I have to post questions in the 
>> discussion portion of the site and am not sure how to do that with using 
>> jaws. I no when surching for other things like powerpoints posted by 
>> profesors I have little trouble, but when posting discussion or replying 
>> to a post I have difficulity. If anyone can help that would be great. 
>> Thanks a bunch
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 12:31 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility
>>
>>
>>> Yes, Access in Office 2003 was accessible. As a matter of fact, I used 
>>> it to do a project that was geared toward blind users.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Katie Wang" <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:29 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Ashley and all,
>>>>
>>>> While I agree that having to re-learn where all the features are in MS
>>>> Office 2010can be pretty annoying for both sighted and blind users
>>>> alike, I have to  say that, having transitioned from MS Office 2003 to
>>>> 2010 recently, I don't believe that the newer version is less
>>>> accessible. As someone suggested earlier in this thread, the Virtual
>>>> Menu feature of JAWS 12 or later makes the ribbons behave in a manner
>>>> that is pretty similar to traditional menus, thereby eliminating a lot
>>>> of the confusion Ashley was referring to. Although I did run into a
>>>> few instances where I'm not sure how to perform a certain task, it was
>>>> easily resolved by a quick Google search, and I believe this is simply
>>>> part of the process of learning to use a new program.
>>>>
>>>> As a graduate student who relies heavily on the MS Office suite and
>>>> someone who is not always eager to learn the most recent technology,
>>>> I'm by no means discounting anyone's frustration. However, I do think
>>>> that, since Windows XP and MS Office 2003 have been around for a long
>>>> time, (they were here when I was first introduced to JAWS), it is easy
>>>> for us to claim that something new is not user-friendly simply because
>>>> we are not used to how it works yet. Some of you may remember me
>>>> posting about alternative email clients in Windows 7 a while ago
>>>> because I was confused by Outlook 2010 and missed the simplicity of
>>>> Outlook Express a lot. I'm pleased to report that I have since figured
>>>> out the basics of Outlook 2010 and found that the email program
>>>> actually works pretty well (in fact, it has some features I do
>>>> appreciate that were not available in Outlook Express). In short, I
>>>> would encourage everyone to be patient when approaching a new
>>>> program-- We all need to upgrade to the latest version of Office
>>>> sooner or later to keep up with mainstream users, and you might be
>>>> surprised by the benefits of a new program once you allow yourself
>>>> time to play around with it.
>>>>
>>>> Katie
>>>>
>>>> PS: As far as I know, MS Office Access is not accessible, but I don't
>>>> believe it has ever been accessible in the past so this is not really
>>>> a 2010 issue. I have never really used Access for anything though so
>>>> don't have much to say about it.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/23/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> A quick tip: Use TAB instead of the arrow keys when in the ribbons.
>>>>> This will mean going through all of the options int hat ribbon, but
>>>>> you won't miss anything, as you would if you used the arrow keys. I
>>>>> learned this in a short class on using ?Word 2010 with JAWS. Also, the
>>>>> 1 of 4 is a grouping. For example, Cut copy past would all be in one
>>>>> grouping. If you use the TAB, you can ignore this grouping and go thru
>>>>> the options without worry of missing anything. It takes some practice
>>>>> to get used to, and it takes extra time to get thru all of the
>>>>> options, but it is accessible...just not as accessible, as was stated
>>>>> before.
>>>>>
>>>>> ~Jewel
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/22/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>> You are not a student and further probably do not use Office suite
>>>>>> everyday;
>>>>>> I don't even know if you have a job.
>>>>>> Yet you seem to discount our collective experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No one said Office suite was not accessible. David Dodge said that it 
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> becoming less accessible.
>>>>>> That is true. The layout is confusing and again, Access is not 
>>>>>> accessible.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> talked to a tech trainer about it and he told me so.
>>>>>> It is also less user friendly. Certainly the basic word processing 
>>>>>> stuff
>>>>>> work well; the short cut commands still work i.e. control S for save,
>>>>>> control n for new document, Others like cut, copy, and paste are the 
>>>>>> same.
>>>>>> Yet, as you use the ribbons more its confusing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For instance: go to the reference tab. You hear a group saying 1 of 5 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> then you tab again; jaws says 1 of 4. Okay, what exactly is the 
>>>>>> group? One
>>>>>> of four what?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you get to the box options? Jaws says  group box. For 
>>>>>> instance, you
>>>>>> tab to footnote or table of contents. If you down arrow, there are no
>>>>>> options.
>>>>>> Sure, I suppose word is accessible, but it is not user friendly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Peter Donahue
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 10:26 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello David and everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     And especially when others are using these products without any
>>>>>> trouble.
>>>>>> Might I suggest checking your software and screen reader's 
>>>>>> documentation
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> procedures and work-around to possible accessibility issues before
>>>>>> declaring
>>>>>> this or that product blind-unfriendly? We do that here and have found
>>>>>> fixes
>>>>>> for many presumed inaccessibility concerns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:37 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would urge people to be more careful with how they word
>>>>>> things.  Everyone is saying Office 2010 is not as
>>>>>> accessible.  Strictly speaking, I don't think this is true.  You can
>>>>>> get to all the controls and identify them with most screen
>>>>>> readers.  I think the product may not be as usable for a blind
>>>>>> person, but it is not inaccessible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am increasingly seeing a tendency on the part of the blind
>>>>>> community to brand software or a web site inaccessible when it is
>>>>>> that they just don't know how to use it, or their assistive 
>>>>>> technology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Surely there are problems out there, but we must be accurate when
>>>>>> reporting them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Andrews
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 08:25 PM 1/22/2012, you wrote:
>>>>>>>David,
>>>>>>>I really agree! 2003 with its menus was more accessible. 2007 wasn't
>>>>>>>too bad from what I heard. I did not try it though. I have 2010 and
>>>>>>>feel its less accessible. As someone already said, access is not
>>>>>>>accessible and in 2007 it was. Microsoft just had to change things; 
>>>>>>>go
>>>>>>>figure.
>>>>>>>Does anyone have a point of contact for them in the accessibility
>>>>>>>department or whomever handels access issues there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ashley
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: David Dodge
>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 9:12 PM
>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Microsoft programs appear to me to be getting less and less 
>>>>>>>accessible as
>>>>>>>time goes on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If you are having accessibility issues with these products I 
>>>>>>>recommend
>>>>>>>contacting Microsoft from their website. It is unlikely that they 
>>>>>>>will
>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>the feedback into consideration, but still.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>2003 and 2007 or certainly more accessible than 2010.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>David
>>>>>>>----------------------------------
>>>>>>>David Dodge
>>>>>>>Doctoral Degree Granting Institutions Rep.
>>>>>>>State University of New York Student Assembly
>>>>>>>English Major
>>>>>>>University at Buffalo
>>>>>>>306 Clemens Hall
>>>>>>>Buffalo, NY 14260
>>>>>>>daviddod at buffalo.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <
>>>>>>>ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>As far as my experience, there is no advantage to using 2007 or 
>>>>>>>>2010,
>>>>>>>>especially if you find 2003. Files created using 2007 and 2010 can 
>>>>>>>>still
>>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>read and edited using 2003. I will leave it up to you, but my
>>>>>>>>recommendation is to use Office 2003. There are ways to have both, 
>>>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>>they
>>>>>>>>are not easy or convenient.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>>>>>>bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:56 PM
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>its my computer. Gee would be nice to have both versions
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 7:46 PM
>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No, you cannot. Is this your computer? If so, I would strongly 
>>>>>>>>recommend
>>>>>>>>just uninstalling the current version of Office and installing 
>>>>>>>>Office
>>>>>>>>2003.
>>>>>>>>If it is not your computer, then maybe you could talk to someone who 
>>>>>>>>has
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>authority to do it and explain that it would make things a million 
>>>>>>>>times
>>>>>>>>easier.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>>>>>>bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:18 PM
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Nicole,
>>>>>>>>I think I have an old cd with office 2003 around. Do you know if I 
>>>>>>>>can
>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>them concurrently on the computer?
>>>>>>>>It just would be nice to have both options; so if I cannot figure 
>>>>>>>>out
>>>>>>>>where
>>>>>>>>something is in the ribbons, I can go back to the nice, simple menus 
>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>2003.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 7:10 PM
>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Yes. The excerpt is from the "What's New in JAWS 12.0" section. I do 
>>>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>>have Office 2007 or 2010, so I unfortunately cannot tell you how 
>>>>>>>>well it
>>>>>>>>works, but it is probably better than nothing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" <
>>>>>>>>arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:00 PM
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Does JAWS 12 have this?
>>>>>>>>Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On 1/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> 
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Do you know how to use the quick settings in JAWS? Copied from the 
>>>>>>>>>JAWS
>>>>>>>>>13
>>>>>>>>>help:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Virtual Ribbon Menu
>>>>>>>>>The Ribbon is a new style of menu available in many new 
>>>>>>>>>applications
>>>>>>>>>being
>>>>>>>>>released today. Ribbons first appeared in Office 2007 programs, but 
>>>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>>>now
>>>>>>>>>becoming more common in other applications tailored for the Windows 
>>>>>>>>>7
>>>>>>>>>operating system. Ribbons create an accessibility challenge due to
>>>>>>>>>inconsistent navigation between various groups and items. For 
>>>>>>>>>example,
>>>>>>>>>when
>>>>>>>>>you enter the Lower Ribbon and press the ARROW keys to move between
>>>>>>>>> items
>>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>>a group, you can skip items and unexpectedly move into another 
>>>>>>>>>group.
>>>>>>>>>Pressing TAB gives no indication that you have left one group and
>>>>>>>>> entered
>>>>>>>>>another. Using first letter navigation to find items can be 
>>>>>>>>>difficult
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>frustrating. Finally, because of a group's layout, you do not know 
>>>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>should navigate up, down, left, or right to select an item.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The new Virtual Ribbon Menu provides predictable navigation, lets 
>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>everything in the Ribbon, and offers consistency when navigating 
>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>>>ARROW
>>>>>>>>>keys. For example, the ARROW and TAB keys move focus from the Upper
>>>>>>>>>Ribbon
>>>>>>>>>tabs to the Lower Ribbon groups. Once in a group, the ARROW, TAB, 
>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>SHIFT+TAB keys move through all items in a group, move from one 
>>>>>>>>>group to
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>next, and wrap to the beginning of the Ribbon. For submenus, 
>>>>>>>>>SPACEBAR
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>ENTER expand menus, and ESCAPE collapses menus. The Virtual Ribbon 
>>>>>>>>>Menu
>>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>>off by default and can be switched on or off from within Settings 
>>>>>>>>>Center
>>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>the JAWS Startup Wizard. When it is on, the Ribbon is navigated 
>>>>>>>>>using a
>>>>>>>>>traditional menu and submenu format familiar to most JAWS users.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:30 PM
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  jaws 13
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 6:23 PM
>>>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>What version of JAWS are you using?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:08 PM
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Seems like the office suite is less user friendly with the new
>>>>>>>>>>> ribbons.
>>>>>>>>>>>Occasionally I find a button unlabeled.
>>>>>>>>>>>Anyway, is access and Publisher accessible at all? I'd like to 
>>>>>>>>>>>create
>>>>>>>>>>>simple charts with publisher and maybe brochures if I volunteer 
>>>>>>>>>>>for pr
>>>>>>>>>>>somewhere.
>>>>>>>>>>>Is excell still accessible?
>>>>>>>>>>>I'll need the access database for work probably.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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