[nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility

Tue Jan 24 18:32:31 UTC 2012

I've used Access 2003 and it's definitely accessible. I'm not sure
about 2010 though.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 24, 2012, at 1:29 AM, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, Ashley and all,
>
> While I agree that having to re-learn where all the features are in MS
> Office 2010can be pretty annoying for both sighted and blind users
> alike, I have to  say that, having transitioned from MS Office 2003 to
> 2010 recently, I don't believe that the newer version is less
> accessible. As someone suggested earlier in this thread, the Virtual
> Menu feature of JAWS 12 or later makes the ribbons behave in a manner
> that is pretty similar to traditional menus, thereby eliminating a lot
> of the confusion Ashley was referring to. Although I did run into a
> few instances where I'm not sure how to perform a certain task, it was
> easily resolved by a quick Google search, and I believe this is simply
> part of the process of learning to use a new program.
>
> As a graduate student who relies heavily on the MS Office suite and
> someone who is not always eager to learn the most recent technology,
> I'm by no means discounting anyone's frustration. However, I do think
> that, since Windows XP and MS Office 2003 have been around for a long
> time, (they were here when I was first introduced to JAWS), it is easy
> for us to claim that something new is not user-friendly simply because
> we are not used to how it works yet. Some of you may remember me
> posting about alternative email clients in Windows 7 a while ago
> because I was confused by Outlook 2010 and missed the simplicity of
> Outlook Express a lot. I'm pleased to report that I have since figured
> out the basics of Outlook 2010 and found that the email program
> actually works pretty well (in fact, it has some features I do
> appreciate that were not available in Outlook Express). In short, I
> would encourage everyone to be patient when approaching a new
> program-- We all need to upgrade to the latest version of Office
> sooner or later to keep up with mainstream users, and you might be
> surprised by the benefits of a new program once you allow yourself
> time to play around with it.
>
> Katie
>
> PS: As far as I know, MS Office Access is not accessible, but I don't
> believe it has ever been accessible in the past so this is not really
> a 2010 issue. I have never really used Access for anything though so
> don't have much to say about it.
>
> On 1/23/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> A quick tip: Use TAB instead of the arrow keys when in the ribbons.
>> This will mean going through all of the options int hat ribbon, but
>> you won't miss anything, as you would if you used the arrow keys. I
>> learned this in a short class on using ?Word 2010 with JAWS. Also, the
>> 1 of 4 is a grouping. For example, Cut copy past would all be in one
>> grouping. If you use the TAB, you can ignore this grouping and go thru
>> the options without worry of missing anything. It takes some practice
>> to get used to, and it takes extra time to get thru all of the
>> options, but it is accessible...just not as accessible, as was stated
>> before.
>>
>> ~Jewel
>>
>> On 1/22/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Peter,
>>> You are not a student and further probably do not use Office suite
>>> everyday;
>>> I don't even know if you have a job.
>>> Yet you seem to discount our collective experience.
>>>
>>> No one said Office suite was not accessible. David Dodge said that it was
>>> becoming less accessible.
>>> That is true. The layout is confusing and again, Access is not accessible.
>>> I
>>> talked to a tech trainer about it and he told me so.
>>> It is also less user friendly. Certainly the basic word processing stuff
>>> work well; the short cut commands still work i.e. control S for save,
>>> control n for new document, Others like cut, copy, and paste are the same.
>>> Yet, as you use the ribbons more its confusing.
>>>
>>> For instance: go to the reference tab. You hear a group saying 1 of 5 and
>>> then you tab again; jaws says 1 of 4. Okay, what exactly is the group? One
>>> of four what?
>>>
>>> How do you get to the box options? Jaws says  group box. For instance, you
>>> tab to footnote or table of contents. If you down arrow, there are no
>>> options.
>>> Sure, I suppose word is accessible, but it is not user friendly.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Peter Donahue
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 10:26 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility
>>>
>>> Hello David and everyone,
>>>
>>>    And especially when others are using these products without any
>>> trouble.
>>> Might I suggest checking your software and screen reader's documentation
>>> for
>>> procedures and work-around to possible accessibility issues before
>>> declaring
>>> this or that product blind-unfriendly? We do that here and have found
>>> fixes
>>> for many presumed inaccessibility concerns.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility
>>>
>>>
>>> I would urge people to be more careful with how they word
>>> things.  Everyone is saying Office 2010 is not as
>>> accessible.  Strictly speaking, I don't think this is true.  You can
>>> get to all the controls and identify them with most screen
>>> readers.  I think the product may not be as usable for a blind
>>> person, but it is not inaccessible.
>>>
>>> I am increasingly seeing a tendency on the part of the blind
>>> community to brand software or a web site inaccessible when it is
>>> that they just don't know how to use it, or their assistive technology.
>>>
>>> Surely there are problems out there, but we must be accurate when
>>> reporting them.
>>>
>>> David Andrews
>>>
>>> At 08:25 PM 1/22/2012, you wrote:
>>>> David,
>>>> I really agree! 2003 with its menus was more accessible. 2007 wasn't
>>>> too bad from what I heard. I did not try it though. I have 2010 and
>>>> feel its less accessible. As someone already said, access is not
>>>> accessible and in 2007 it was. Microsoft just had to change things; go
>>>> figure.
>>>> Does anyone have a point of contact for them in the accessibility
>>>> department or whomever handels access issues there.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: David Dodge
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 9:12 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft programs appear to me to be getting less and less accessible as
>>>> time goes on.
>>>>
>>>> If you are having accessibility issues with these products I recommend
>>>> contacting Microsoft from their website. It is unlikely that they will
>>>> take
>>>> the feedback into consideration, but still.
>>>>
>>>> 2003 and 2007 or certainly more accessible than 2010.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>> David Dodge
>>>> Doctoral Degree Granting Institutions Rep.
>>>> State University of New York Student Assembly
>>>> English Major
>>>> University at Buffalo
>>>> 306 Clemens Hall
>>>> Buffalo, NY 14260
>>>> daviddod at buffalo.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <
>>>> ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As far as my experience, there is no advantage to using 2007 or 2010,
>>>>> especially if you find 2003. Files created using 2007 and 2010 can still
>>>>> be
>>>>> read and edited using 2003. I will leave it up to you, but my
>>>>> recommendation is to use Office 2003. There are ways to have both, but
>>>>> they
>>>>> are not easy or convenient.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:56 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> its my computer. Gee would be nice to have both versions
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 7:46 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>
>>>>> No, you cannot. Is this your computer? If so, I would strongly recommend
>>>>> just uninstalling the current version of Office and installing Office
>>>>> 2003.
>>>>> If it is not your computer, then maybe you could talk to someone who has
>>>>> the
>>>>> authority to do it and explain that it would make things a million times
>>>>> easier.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:18 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicole,
>>>>> I think I have an old cd with office 2003 around. Do you know if I can
>>>>> have
>>>>> them concurrently on the computer?
>>>>> It just would be nice to have both options; so if I cannot figure out
>>>>> where
>>>>> something is in the ribbons, I can go back to the nice, simple menus of
>>>>> 2003.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 7:10 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. The excerpt is from the "What's New in JAWS 12.0" section. I do not
>>>>> have Office 2007 or 2010, so I unfortunately cannot tell you how well it
>>>>> works, but it is probably better than nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" <
>>>>> arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Does JAWS 12 have this?
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you know how to use the quick settings in JAWS? Copied from the JAWS
>>>>>> 13
>>>>>> help:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Virtual Ribbon Menu
>>>>>> The Ribbon is a new style of menu available in many new applications
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> released today. Ribbons first appeared in Office 2007 programs, but are
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> becoming more common in other applications tailored for the Windows 7
>>>>>> operating system. Ribbons create an accessibility challenge due to
>>>>>> inconsistent navigation between various groups and items. For example,
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> you enter the Lower Ribbon and press the ARROW keys to move between
>>>>>> items
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> a group, you can skip items and unexpectedly move into another group.
>>>>>> Pressing TAB gives no indication that you have left one group and
>>>>>> entered
>>>>>> another. Using first letter navigation to find items can be difficult
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> frustrating. Finally, because of a group's layout, you do not know if
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> should navigate up, down, left, or right to select an item.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The new Virtual Ribbon Menu provides predictable navigation, lets you
>>>>>> see
>>>>>> everything in the Ribbon, and offers consistency when navigating with
>>>>>> ARROW
>>>>>> keys. For example, the ARROW and TAB keys move focus from the Upper
>>>>>> Ribbon
>>>>>> tabs to the Lower Ribbon groups. Once in a group, the ARROW, TAB, and
>>>>>> SHIFT+TAB keys move through all items in a group, move from one group to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> next, and wrap to the beginning of the Ribbon. For submenus, SPACEBAR
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> ENTER expand menus, and ESCAPE collapses menus. The Virtual Ribbon Menu
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> off by default and can be switched on or off from within Settings Center
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> the JAWS Startup Wizard. When it is on, the Ribbon is navigated using a
>>>>>> traditional menu and submenu format familiar to most JAWS users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:30 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jaws 13
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 6:23 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What version of JAWS are you using?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:08 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems like the office suite is less user friendly with the new
>>>>>>>> ribbons.
>>>>>>>> Occasionally I find a button unlabeled.
>>>>>>>> Anyway, is access and Publisher accessible at all? I'd like to create
>>>>>>>> simple charts with publisher and maybe brochures if I volunteer for pr
>>>>>>>> somewhere.
>>>>>>>> Is excell still accessible?
>>>>>>>> I'll need the access database for work probably.
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
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