[nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
Gabe Cazares
gcazares10 at gmail.com
Fri Jul 13 00:43:10 UTC 2012
Hi Joshua, Brandon, and my fellow NABS friends:
I would like to start off by encouraging you highly opinionated folks to
please take time to fill out the survey. I believe that we are facing a
couple of different perspectives, which necessarily aren't bad, however I
would like to speak to a few points.
Brandon: I agree with most of your views. I too am of the opinion that a
course on Sex Education is not a bad idea. In fact, if you take time to
examine what the initial Email says you will see that they are not trying to
create a separate curriculum for blind people. The direct quote is
"Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and blindness
that reflect current education standards." Meaning that standards are
already set for the education of other students, and they are only
attempting to develop a curriculum that matches the current standards for
the education of blind students. However, I disagree with your portrayal of
blind people. Blind people are not as ignorant and naïve as I feel you
present us to be. I for one, was never taught by a textbook or a course on
how to kiss, how to behave myself, how to identify flirting, and for that
matter sexually suggestive behavior. Don't forget that we are all people who
happen to be blind, minus the blindness characteristic we're normal
functioning human beings. Such behaviors come naturally, and with exposure
to social environments and activities can be further developed and perfected
upon. Also, I believe that you're examples have served their purpose, and
that you are now walking on the fine line of almost being vulgar. Please
keep in mind that we have students of all ages and professionals related to
blindness and other issues relating to blindness subscribed to this list,
and while the title of the thread discloses the subject matter very clearly,
there really is no reason why to expound upon the points you have been
making with such graphic examples. Your first few examples beautifully
conveyed your message, now they're just becoming distasteful. Please keep
that in mind when writing.
Joshua: I can appreciate your point of view, because while I don't agree
with it, I am of the opinion that everyone has the right to speak their
piece. But please keep in mind that the leaders of the Federation are
important individuals with integrity, and I'm not sure that using them as
examples on a controversial topic like this one is such a good idea.
Especially when you have stated incorrect facts, Dr. and Mrs. Maurer only
have two children.
Everyone has opinions on when to teach people about sex education, by whom
it should be done, and at what age it's appropriate to do so. That is fine,
but that is not what David's forwarded Email was all about. It was just a
simple announcement asking us to participate in academic research for the
matter being discussed on this thread, so again, I encourage everyone that
has an opinion on the issue to take your comments off of the list, and
transpose them to the survey.
Best,
...Gabe
Gabriel M. Cazares, 1st Vice President
Texas Association of Blind Students - TABS (A Division of the National
Federation of the Blind of Texas)
www.nfbtx.org/tabs
Phone: 713-581-0619
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:13 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
Good grief!
I just have one question for you, since you're for this new curriculum.
How do you think Dr Maurer, and his wife learned?
They didn't have sex-education, in the 1950's, but they have 5 kids!
That whole story destroys the argument!
Blessings, Joshua
On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone
> talk about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about
> actually seeing
>
> a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of
> a man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same
> with a guy,
>
> it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're
> supposed
>
> to stick your peaness into it...
> We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind
> girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that
> having
>
> sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first
> sexual
>
> encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either
> he'd get
>
> scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and
> he's like
>
> a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther.
> (New advertisement for birth control!) Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Desiree Oudinot
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>
> Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of
> thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs
> sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a
> whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a
> separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I
> do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job
> searching and resume building and things like that, these topics
> should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important
> topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it
> more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind
> psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some
> first-hand experience and knowledge.
>
> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the
>> first
>>
>> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch
>> the other
>>
>> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that
>> kissing can
>>
>> be more than a brush of the lips.
>> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first
>> time I read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through
>> down my PDA
>>
>> I
>>
>> was like, That's gross!!!
>> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and
>> how was
>>
>> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing?
>> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through
>> a love
>>
>> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman
>> stuck
>>
>> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because
>> that was just so unexpected.
>> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes
>> to kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what
entails.
>> Of
>>
>> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me
>> personally, learning through experience has really turned me off of
>> kissing and romantic
>>
>> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this
>> is what
>>
>> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection.
>> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I
>> thought
>>
>> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought
>> women
>>
>> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've
>> come to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been
>> my active exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many
>> of the nasty things that are a part of romance.
>> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing
>> to talk
>>
>> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really
>> delayed
>>
>> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first
>> time at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing
>> a naked woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is
>> located?
>> I've
>>
>> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that
>> breasts
>>
>> are private on a woman...)
>> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling
>> women's boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he
>> can't see me, plus
>>
>> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..."
>> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your
>> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't
>> just touch yours, he'd touch everyone's?
>> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to
>> play,
>>
>> I
>>
>> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in
>> that household.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Desiree Oudinot
>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>>
>> Hi Brandon,
>> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question
>> one statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that.
>> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then
>> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex
>> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on.
>> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new
>> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of
>> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and
>> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less
>> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more
>> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it.
>> But if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of
>> a sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change
>> your approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight
>> or lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive
>> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of
>> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say
>> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a
>> lot of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others,
>> we would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I
>> was starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes
>> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first
>> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship.
>> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message
>> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity
>> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want
>> or not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the
>> counter, asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk
>> what they want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so
>> either way we lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be
>> an option if people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I
>> was a teenager, I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either.
>>
>> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Joshua,
>>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this
>>> survey is a good idea.
>>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is
>>> and what you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures.
>>> Sighted kids learn
>>>
>>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures.
>>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not
>>> discuss anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts
>>> and functions;
>>>
>>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures.
>>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife
>>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity?
>>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act.
>>> I know
>>>
>>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what
>>> it meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than
>>> to say I know less about sex than my peers my age.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>>>
>>> Hi, Amber!
>>> You're right!
>>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature!
>>> That's one of my favorite songs!
>>> Welcome to the list!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. <herrinar at muohio.edu> wrote:
>>>> Dear Joshua,
>>>>
>>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about
>>>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind
>>>> of...unnecessary, I guess?
>>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes
>>>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being
>>>> blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way
>>>> sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do
>>>> anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text
>>>> be?)
>>>>
>>>> Amber R. Herrin
>>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012
>>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855
>>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu
>>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's
>>>> just a reason For someone not to try
>>>>
>>>> Everybody's scared to death
>>>> When they decide to take that step
>>>> Out on the water
>>>> It'll be alright
>>>>
>>>> Life is so much more
>>>> Than what your eyes are seeing
>>>> You will find your way
>>>> If you keep believing"
>>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do"
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>>>>
>>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new
>>>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting.
>>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know,
>>>> what's being shown, in those slides?
>>>> Good grief!
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dear NFB Member,
>>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to
>>>>>>help us with a current project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help
>>>>>>us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness
>>>>>>in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for
>>>>>>students with low vision and blindness that reflect current
>>>>>>education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals
>>>>>>have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a
curriculum.
>>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work!
>>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below:
>>>>>><https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey>https://www.sur
>>>>>>veym
>>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey
>>>>>>
>>>>>><https://maverick.hec.ohio-state.edu/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=htt
>>>>>>ps:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project!
>>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank you,
>>>>>>Mika Baugh
>>>>>>National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>200 East Wells Street
>>>>>> at Jernigan Place
>>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230
>>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371
>>>>>>E: <mailto:mbaugh at nfb.org>mbaugh at nfb.org
>>>>>>W: <http://www.nfb.org>www.nfb.org
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40
>>>>> stud
>>>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muoh
>>>> io.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s
>>>> tudents.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea
>>> rthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40
>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs
>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%
> 40gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
> ents.pccua.edu
>
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gcazares10%40gmail.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5128 - Release Date: 07/12/12
More information about the NABS-L
mailing list