[nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum

[Joshua Lester]

Wow!
Valory, you've said what I've been saying all along.
Why do we need all of that explissit stuff, when it's built into us genetically?
Good grief!
I can understand describing slides and showing them to the sighted,
but every minute detail, shouldn't be explissitly described.
Like I said, they should save the explissit stuff for high school aged
kids, and do more general for the younger ones.
Blessings, Joshua

On 7/12/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think this is a good topic for the list, if a bit crudely done. I mean we
> hear about teen pregnancies all the time, which would lead one to believe
> that teens, more than ever, are pressured into having sex before their
> ready.  On the college front, well, for the most part it's a given that
> college kids are going to have sex.  Not true for everyone, i know; I put
> myself in the the "not true for everyone" category.  However, while i'm not
> interested in having sex until i'm married, the whole concept of sex and
> romance is curious to me.
>
> The way i see it is: people have been having sex for ages, so it can't be
> too difficult, and i'm sure people just would wing it most of the time.  I
> think sex and all that it entails is genetically coded into us, as with
> other animals.  Dogs or parrots don't have a sex ED class, and we're
> supposedly smarter, so how hard can it be to know what to do when the time
> comes. :P okay granted those animals can see…
>
> not to sound like  a total snob here but: there are people i know who only
> know how to make microwave or frozen dinners and don't really get around by
> themselves, yet they manage sex.  This is not a dig at anyone who may fit
> this category. i'm just making a point that i don't think there's much skill
> involved as the media or books may make us think. I think that's all in our
> heads.
>
> I dunno, maybe 'm missing the point.
>
> going to end this before i step on someone's toes now.
> On Jul 12, 2012, at 7:41 PM, Anjelina wrote:
>
>> While Brandon's descriptions were vivid, I believe it's best to call body
>> parts by their proper names and his points are quite realistic.
>> I'm not sure if this discussion is appropriate for the list, but it is
>> most certainly something which should be further explored.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila
>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:20 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>>
>> Dear Brandon,
>>
>> Thank you for your contributions to this topic and I agree about 70% of
>> the
>> things you've said. However, with this one, I think you went so, so
>> explicit. Not even books on Web Braille have the specific description
>> like
>> that, even if it says, "Explicit descriptions of sex." I'm not sure this
>> explicit language is ever appropriate for any NFBNet list serve what so
>> ever. I'm not stopping you, but please be a little extra careful when you
>> post these things. I understand the P word on male and the v word on
>> females, so why use it here?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Humberto
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Brandon Keith Biggs
>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>>
>> Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone
>> talk
>> about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually
>> seeing
>> a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a
>> man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a
>> guy,
>>
>> it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're
>> supposed
>>
>> to stick your peaness into it...
>> We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind
>> girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that
>> having
>> sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first
>> sexual
>>
>> encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd
>> get
>> scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's
>> like
>>
>> a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther.
>> (New advertisement for birth control!)
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot
>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>>
>> Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of
>> thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs
>> sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a
>> whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a
>> separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I
>> do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job
>> searching and resume building and things like that, these topics
>> should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important
>> topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it
>> more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind
>> psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some
>> first-hand experience and knowledge.
>>
>> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the
>>> first
>>>
>>> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the
>>> other
>>>
>>> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing
>>> can
>>>
>>> be more than a brush of the lips.
>>> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time
>>> I
>>> read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my
>>> PDA
>>> I
>>>
>>> was like, That's gross!!!
>>> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how
>>> was
>>>
>>> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing?
>>> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a
>>> love
>>>
>>> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman
>>> stuck
>>>
>>> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that
>>> was
>>> just so unexpected.
>>> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to
>>> kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails.
>>> Of
>>>
>>> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally,
>>> learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and
>>> romantic
>>>
>>> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is
>>> what
>>>
>>> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection.
>>> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I
>>> thought
>>>
>>> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought
>>> women
>>>
>>> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've
>>> come
>>> to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my
>>> active
>>> exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty
>>> things that are a part of romance.
>>> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to
>>> talk
>>>
>>> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really
>>> delayed
>>>
>>> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first
>>> time
>>> at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked
>>> woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located?
>>> I've
>>>
>>> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that
>>> breasts
>>>
>>> are private on a woman...)
>>> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling
>>> women's
>>> boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me,
>>> plus
>>>
>>> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..."
>>> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your
>>> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just
>>> touch yours, he'd touch everyone's?
>>> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to
>>> play,
>>
>>> I
>>>
>>> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that
>>> household.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Desiree Oudinot
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>>>
>>> Hi Brandon,
>>> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one
>>> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that.
>>> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then
>>> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex
>>> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on.
>>> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new
>>> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of
>>> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and
>>> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less
>>> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more
>>> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But
>>> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a
>>> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your
>>> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or
>>> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive
>>> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of
>>> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say
>>> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot
>>> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we
>>> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was
>>> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes
>>> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first
>>> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship.
>>> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message
>>> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity
>>> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or
>>> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter,
>>> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they
>>> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we
>>> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if
>>> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager,
>>> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either.
>>>
>>> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Joshua,
>>>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this
>>>> survey
>>>> is a good idea.
>>>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and
>>>> what
>>>> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids
>>>> learn
>>>>
>>>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures.
>>>> I remember this  sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss
>>>> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and
>>>> functions;
>>>>
>>>> however, it was  kind of confusing without the visual pictures.
>>>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife
>>>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity?
>>>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I
>>>> know
>>>>
>>>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it
>>>> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say
>>>> I
>>>> know less about sex than my peers my age.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>>>>
>>>> Hi, Amber!
>>>> You're right!
>>>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature!
>>>> That's one of my favorite songs!
>>>> Welcome to the list!
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. <herrinar at muohio.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Dear Joshua,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to agree with you here!  For me, the idea of knowing about sex,
>>>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I
>>>>> guess?
>>>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes
>>>>> you
>>>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people
>>>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books
>>>>> written
>>>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?)
>>>>>
>>>>> Amber R. Herrin
>>>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012
>>>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855
>>>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu
>>>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard
>>>>> Impossible is not a word
>>>>> It's just a reason
>>>>> For someone not to try
>>>>>
>>>>> Everybody's scared to death
>>>>> When they decide to take that step
>>>>> Out on the water
>>>>> It'll be alright
>>>>>
>>>>> Life is so much more
>>>>> Than what your eyes are seeing
>>>>> You will find your way
>>>>> If you keep believing"
>>>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do"
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Joshua Lester
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new
>>>>> proposed
>>>>> curriculum, that they're wanting.
>>>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's
>>>>> being
>>>>> shown, in those slides?
>>>>> Good grief!
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear NFB Member,
>>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to
>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>> us with a current project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us
>>>>>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the
>>>>>>> area of sex education.  Currently no curriculum exists for students
>>>>>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education
>>>>>>> standards.  Young people, educators, and professionals have all
>>>>>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum.
>>>>>>> We want your voice to impact our work!
>>>>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below:
>>>>>>> <https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey>https://www.surveym
>>>>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://maverick.hec.ohio-state.edu/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=https:/
>>>>>>> /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project!
>>>>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>> Mika Baugh
>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>> 200 East Wells Street
>>>>>>>     at Jernigan Place
>>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230
>>>>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371
>>>>>>> E: <mailto:mbaugh at nfb.org>mbaugh at nfb.org
>>>>>>> W: <http://www.nfb.org>www.nfb.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>>>>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
>> ccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
>> net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co
>> m
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai
>> l.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co
>> m
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai
>> l.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> Anjelina
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>