[nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

[Beth]

My new boyfriend is from Georgia, so yeah, I have a good idea of 
whuaft kind of foods he likes, sort of. :)
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:49:37 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Beth, the blind cooks list can provide you with the info you 
need, to
cook Southern food.
Where is your new boyfriend from?
Thanks, Joshua

On 6/10/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
 First off, my boyfriend can't go to an independent living center
 out of state.  It took that to get me to learn daily living
 skills.  I live in my own, but I hate to live for two people.
 You've got great points, Brandon.  My boyfriend will have to do
 daily living trainning, maybe I can find a daily living skills
 teacher in his state that can help.  I tried learning from a
 daily living skills teacher, but the teachers I've worked with
 never really told my parents they had to be patient.  HE's lucky
 his girlfriend is blind and can cook just as good as anyone.
 Btw, I made a casserole one day, and it's great that I did.  If 
I
 have to move out with my boyffriend, I'll have to learn and 
teach
 myself how to make deviled eggs and southern fried chicken, some
 of his favorites.  But I'll be that patient with him and help 
him
 get on his feet.  I'll probably have to learn something, but I
 think living in the bay area won't be possible.  I have to live
 where he is so that his heart doesn't get damaged or whuaftever.
 I think we're better than the people at Goodwill, and .. oh
 yeah, hopefully, we get good furniture from a furniture resale
 store unlike Goodwill.
 Beth

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 08:53:30 -0700
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

 Hello Beth,
 let me first say that judging by your emails you definitely have
 enough
 reasoning and writing ability to get what ever degree you wish.
 If you've
 read literature on human trafficking you have seen the worst.
 They shelter
 you in schools because they don't want to get sued. That doctor
 definitely
 has no idea what he's talking about. If I were you, I'd go to
 school and get
 that counseling degree, then invite that doctor to my 
graduation!
 If money
 is an issue, DOR and the state often have programs that can 
fully
 cover the
 cost of school, minus housing and food.
 Don't worry, you sound lots better informed than many people 
that
 I know
 about personal finance. I was looking at the Hadley Business
 section and I
 was really wondering why they didn't have personal finance and
 investing. I
 don't know anyone other than brokers who have the education to
 really make
 something of their money. Sadly though, personal finance is one
 of those
 things that are expected one learns on their own. Like speaking
 and
 socializing, it should just be a given that everyone knows about
 how to find
 banks with high interest rates and low fees, everyone knows how
 to budget
 effectively, everyone knows how to find the best deals on food
 and clothing,
 and no one needs any help on running a family in school.
 My communication teacher in school said that 99% of all the
 students that
 come to her class have never had a communication class in their
 life, yet
 100% of her students have had to communicate.
 We are both a little baffled at this logic, but that's how life
 is I
 guess...?
 Personally I've found that those who have the most power over
 people in this
 world are those with money and those with exceptional
 communication skills.
 I would recommend everyone move to the Bay area here in CA and 
go
 to
 Foothill College. The teachers there are exceptional and the
 disability
 center is the best in the west. They also give oober 
scholarships
 to those
 students who come off as serious students *Points at his 9 grand
 in
 scholarships*.
 Also, you don't need DOR to pay for any part of school, as one
 can get
 renewable scholarships at a community college to pay for every
 part of
 school, except for $47 by just being on SSI.
 Beth, Here in the bay area we have a giant human trafficking
 problem as we
 are one of the major connection points for overseas travel. It's
 on the
 radio lots how they've caught slavers here and there, but 
besides
 that, the
 Bay Area is so much for women's studies, I've not seen any
 general college
 that doesn't offer a degree in women's studies.
 If I were anyone, I would totally move here to SF or go to NY,
 because not
 only is the blindness support so great, but public 
transportation
 is the
 best in the nation for both those places.
 But enough on me pushing SF...!
 Beth, your boyfriend sounds like he could do with a liberal dose
 of Daily
 living skills. Here where I live, there is a center called the
 "Vista
 Center" and DOR contracts out teachers to help you become
 independent. I
 love those teachers, because with their help, I was able to move
 out on my
 own when I was 18.
 I believe the Light House also has programs like this, and 
Justin
 was saying
 something about attending a program that also teaches living
 skills. But my
 teacher says she encounters two types of people. There are those
 who go
 above and beyond what they were asked and actually do what they
 were taught
 on their own, then there are those who do the minimum possible.
 They expect
 everything to be spoon fed to them. The first group are the ones
 who
 generally make it in the world as successful individuals. Beth,
 if I were
 you, I'd have a down to earth talk with your Boyfriend, letting
 him know
 that as it stands people don't believe in his ability to take
 care of
 himself. He may think that he could take care of himself, but 
you
 can let
 him know that he will have to prove it first. If he agrees, than
 it's time
 to look for a daily living skills teacher. If not, he may want 
to
 be sent to
 one of the independent living facilities, so he can see first
 hand why he
 must learn living skills in order to be free.
 I don't believe marriage should be really talked about until
 after your
 Boyfriend proves his stuff. Because Beth, you've got your life 
to
 live and
 you should not be forced to live for two people which you would
 be doing if
 you married and moved out with your boyfriend as things are now.

 I know what you mean about not going to prom. I never went to
 prom with a
 girl when I was in High school. I actually didn't get a
 girlfriend till my
 last year of High School and I broke up with her 5 months later.
 I didn't
 have another till a little over a year after that. It was with
 that second
 girlfriend that I went to prom. Frankly, school dances are the
 worst things
 since the invention of eyes.
 If you like loud music beating so loud that you can't hear
 yourself think,
 let alone hear your date talking, and if you like being squeezed
 together on
 all sides by grinding individuals, and if you're being shown how
 to dance by
 your partner, the only word I can label this, is hell.
 The romantic things before and after the dance are great, but 
the
 dance
 itself is terrible. So let me assure you that except for the
 romantic part,
 you did not miss much at the prom. They didn't even play the 
Blue
 Danube at
 the prom I went to! I thought that was required in order to have
 a dance to
 call themselves a dance?
 anyways, in my opinion the education is much more important when
 you're
 going through school than the social aspects. In college though,
 guys become
 much smarter and women become way more emotionally sound, just
 because they
 have lived and learned much more through their life.
 Most of the girls I've thought about dating have not been mature
 enough in
 some aspect of their life. My last girlfriend was too immature
 when it came
 to being focused and I learned the hard way that you should 
never
 expect
 people to change. So part of my problem about having a small
 social life is
 that even now, I find that the women I'm attracted to are still
 much to
 immature in some way for any kind of relationship to work.
 But for high school, I was not socially mature and even now I'm
 not socially
 mature enough to really fit in the sighted world. This is the
 biggest
 problem I've found, blind people are not able to pass themselves
 off as good
 relationship material in the sighted world. If the world was 
only
 blind this
 would be different, but because we live in a sight run culture,
 being able
 to be socially mature to those who are sighted is crucial if one
 wants to
 make it in anything other than strictly working in something 
like
 the NFB or
 Goodwill.
 We have to work extra hard at understanding what sighted people
 think and
 how sighted people do things in order to live as the sighted
 people. Once
 we're able to pass ourselves off enough so no one believes we're
 blind, we
 should then and only then, begin to emphasize the fact that we
 are blind.
 Because if we establish to people that we're blind first, they
 will look no
 farther than our disability. In sighted human evolution, being
 disabled is
 repulsive and we've got to fight against nature in order to do
 anything in
 the sighted world. Once one is able to show that they are a
 sighted person
 first, then they can show they are blind and at that point, one
 is able to
 make blindness something to be desired and interesting, not
 repulsive and
 weird.
 Thank you,

 Brandon Keith Biggs
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Beth
 Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:01 AM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

 Great points, Brandon.  As someone who is both blind and 
mentally
 ill, I understand how it feels to be considered weird.  I've 
been
 called a creep, told by some girl to my boyfriend's face that he
 could do better due to my disorder, and then threatened with all
 kinds of emotional attack and abuse.  Due to blindness, I was
 told by the docs I'd be a vegetable.  Huh?  My dad says I'm a
 genius.  I don't know, but my last IQ check said I was a 133,
 superior without all the visual battery of tests.  But then
 again, IQ isn't everything.  I live in Denver, alone, with no
 roommate to pander to my every need.  I probably should say that
 with the right support and good friends around me, I could
 thrive.  I could become a "normal" woman, work a "normal" job,
 and get "normal" wages.  I could take care of children, my own
 children, and raise them to be good people, productive citizens
 of the United States of America, and I'd look forward to good
 days and bad days along the way.  My old cane teacher is a
 fountain of wisdom when it comes to life's miseries, and the
 rapids of life don't get any higher than what they are.  I could
 get deeper and say that God doesn't put us in a river with 
rapids
 that could not be handled by the rider.  One of the biggest
 "whitewater rapids" so to speak is the employment and wages
 thing.  Brandon and Arielle, you guys make a good point in that
 blind people are trained to act like mentally disabled people.
 My boyfriend doesn't know money.  I wonder if I can possibly
 teach him the basics of money management and budgeting.  I
 struggle with it myself because SSI is too little to live off 
of,
 and I was given a plane ticket, but not the money for baggage
 fees and cab fare to get to and from the airport.  So I'm stuck
 paying for that.  My boyfriend also doesn't know how to keep
 track of his own wages, and if he becomes a big-time producer 
for
 all sorts of rappers who would run to him, I don't know how he's
 going to run the household and help me pay my bills too.  What 
if
 I'm incapacitated for real this time?  I mean, like, Terry
 Shiavo?  How's Jason, who I may designate as a healthcare
 surrogate, going to make that decision?  My hope is that he 
won't
 have to do that, but if that happens, I need someone that I feel
 can be trusted to make the decisions about my bills and stuff.  
I
 was asked by my boyfriend's mom of all people to help her with
 him a bit.  Just to think of Jason in the situation he's in just
 makes me so sick.  I want him to manage his own wages, cook me a
 meal if I get sick, and fry me some chicken or grill a burger on
 Memorial Day.  He has the potential to do those things, and the
 weird part is that his parents are open to us having a
 relationship.  Most disabled people's parents, including but not
 limited to my own, are not as open about relations with poorer
 people.  Both Jason and I are poor, but I think we can live
 together successfully with all the right supports, and if we
 can't find jobs, so what?  We need family support to get by.  
But
 I really do dream of having my own private house, being able to
 manage my bills, being able to buy foods that are nutritious to
 my children and so on, and feeding the baby and having Jason
 there to have breakfast with in the mornings, and not his old
 mother.  Not to say she's bad, but it's a dream I want to have.
 My mother should not have to manage my money.  Yes, I'm not so
 good at money management, but I've learned a few lessons like 
how
 to go back and look at your payment history every time if you 
get
 suspicious about a charge.  Like if the bills are on autopay, 
you
 have to look back and see if the weird corporate robbers, if I
 may use such a cold term, are stealing your money.  I felt
 Comcast was robbing me of my precious money, and especially this
 month
 because of a trip, and next month because of a move I have to 
do,
 I can't afford a $70 internet bill.  That's just too much unless
 you're really living in low income housing.  I know a lot about
 disabled or low income housing.  Boy, my boyfriend has a lot to
 learn, and he'll learn lots while I'm with him.  Lots of times,
 blind people are sheltered by their parents, and of course, the
 parents I had were good parents, no doubt, but they had their
 flaws.  Jason is lucky in some ways, but his parents said the
 same stuff that all sighted people say, "He has it made.  We 
wait
 on him hand and foot ..."  And so on.  This creates a problem.
 Blind people need to not be waited on hand and foot.  We can't
 necessarily be pandered to our every need like little Veruca 
Salt
 in charlie and the Chocolate Factory if I may reference a 
spoiled
 literary figure.  We can't be pandered or revered as Helen 
Keller
 was by her family in her early years.  Unlike Jason, Helen was
 deaf and in me and Jason's time, jobs are ample, and skills are
 ample thanks to technology.  With Helen Keller's time, there 
were
 no jobs open, and marriage and motherhood were closed to Helen.
 I as a blind woman am thankful that marriage is open to 
me--hence
 the boyfriend I currently have--and relationships period.  Jobs
 and technology have risen while I was growing up.  It only seems
 like yesterday that I would not be sending this superbly long
 email.  Thanks to emails and Facebook and Twitter, I feel much
 more connected to my friends and family, and especially to my
 dear cousin Sarah, but yet she never calls me.  Ha ha.  But
 thanks to cell phones, I can go anywhere and give everyone a 
text
 message.  Imagine poor blind Beth texting!  It only seems like
 yesterday that my parents didn't think I needed an accessible
 phone, but when I fought to get an accessible phone, and my
 ex-boyfriend taught me how to write letters on the phone, which
 is a skill I still fail at sometimes (lol), I have texted my
 friends and I can receive texts from people.  I would hate to
 change my address, but I do that.  I will be in Denver for a 
good
 while so I can do my college and keep the ducks in a row as I
 would hear my mother say.  When I get my ducks in a row, I plan
 to move on to bigger and better things, and I want to get a job
 helping human trafficking victims.  Denver has a strong victim
 advocate program, but that's only the Muslim Family Services 
that
 may have that.  I'd heard that Atlanta has a big problem with
 human trafficking.  Well, so do some areas of Florida, but if
 there's slavery and trafficking, I'll be there to stop it.  I'd
 like to give former slaves and prostitutes a chance at life, but
 where will I go without a college degree in women's studies and 
a
 good background in such matters?  I was never trafficked, but I
 have read countless literature, and have seen it firsthand or
 through others, what sorts of cruelty exist in the world.
 To keep the message on topic, I want to say that such a job
 helping human trafficking victims shouldn't require a social 
work
 degree, which the doc says I'm too messed up to do.  I want to
 advise all of us to please take suspicious statements like,
 "She's pretending to be a certain ethnic group" or "She's not 
fit
 to do something because of mental deficiencies."  What sort of
 nonsensical statements these are!  DVR in Colorado doesn't seem
 to get it.  They tell me I'm too messed up for college but they
 don't seem to understand that the importance of college is more
 to me than anybody.  My brothers are taking college classes, and
 they will graduate, marry, and have families as expected.  But
 what will I do?  My parents will dictate who I will marry due to
 gender and blindness, they will tell me what talents I have
 because I'm so "malleable", as some people think blind people
 are, and then my teachers, doctors, psychologists, social
 workers, and case managers will either take my babies or let me
 keep them with sighted supervision, and so on.  But going 
through
 school is not easy.  Brandon, you said school is great, but you
 don't realize that as a blind person in a million living in a
 small town, nobody cared to dance with me at homecoming or prom.
 That's the price I paid for being blind.  Nobody cared to offer
 me flowers on a date.  I didn't have the normal teenager things
 that every teenage girl dreams about.  If I have a daughter, I
 want to dress her up for prom and her wedding day with such 
pride
 a mother would share with her spouse and daughter alike.  My
 mother never got that opportunity with me.  She would help me
 into my chorus dresses, but those were mere obligations to the
 school.  My mom believed that prom was for dates only, and 
summer
 jobs?  Out of the question.  I can't get a good experience if I
 am not allowed to work.  Titusville is a small town in Florida,
 and I and another man were the only blind people in it.  I being
 the only and youngest blind woman in the town couldn't be 
offered
 a job.  The only jobs offered were at the hospital, where 
medical
 experience was required, and the Space Center, where engineering
 degrees were preferred.  My dad can attest to the people he's
 interviewed for jobs, and unfortunately, there's not enough 
blind
 computer engineers, except those in the underground geek 
industry
 as I like to call it, to go around.  We also need to learn to
 communicate with others who are sighted, speak their language so
 to speak.
 Ok, my rant is over.
 Beth
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 23:57:32 -0700
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

 Hello,
 I'm sure many people who have talked to me before know what I'm
 going to
 say...
 It's the educational system that many of these problems come 
down
 to. We
 have teachers coming out of school who are not inspired to 
create
 a new
 style of teaching. We have teachers who are never taught about
 disabled
 students. We have blind students who are never taught how to ask
 for
 accommodations. We have parents who think being blind is bad!
 Honestly, if I could have redone my education as a sighted
 person, I would
 not have done it. Being blind is such an advantage in the United
 States when
 going through school. You get extra time on everything, you get
 leniency on
 all your assignments if you can't finish them on time, you get
 free
 schooling, you get paid to go through school by SSI, you have so
 many
 scholarships you can apply for, you can use the law to fight for
 accessibility with little retribution, you become great friends
 with your
 teachers just because you get to talk to them all the time, you
 are by
 nature a very active participant in your class, you are able to
 read your
 books 1000 times faster than all of the other students combined,
 you're able
 to get tutoring for free, you don't have to feel ashamed for
 taking
 advantage of any of the above benefits because you're disabled
 and that's
 what you're expected to do!
 Also, the expectation of your teachers is rather low and when 
you
 get 100%
 on all their hardest tests they get all embarrassed, people 
think
 it's
 amazing that you're getting strait As when it's nothing,
 (Stereotypically)
 blind people are very unsocial so they have lots of extra time 
to
 do school
 work, you're able to actually edit your teacher's handouts and
 instructions
 because Jaws doesn't miss skipped letters, if you have a problem
 with your
 online test you can blame it on your screen reader crashing the
 web browser,
 state colleges gobble you up if you have ever taken an honors
 class at a
 community college and you have good grades and you've written 
one
 of those
 inspiring essays, when you write inspiring essays you can get 
the
 super
 arrogant feeling for a moment and say "That's me in the essay!",
 you're able
 to participate in all kinds of extra activities through agencies
 like Global
 explorers or the Light House, you can participate in summer job
 programs
 like YES1 and YES2 in Washington State, when you go to community
 college or
 state college you're given a guide through the school because 
you
 need a
 mobility lesson and you have the disability resource person.
 I should probably stop, but you get the idea...
 It's probably because I was homeschooled for the first few years
 of my life
 and did all kinds of super awesome things with my overly amazing
 parents and
 didn't enter public school till 5th grade that I have this view
 of school,
 but I understood that I could learn in public school and it was
 just that
 either the teacher wasn't teaching me or that I wasn't equipped
 with the
 skills or technology that was keeping me from learning.
 There are many other factors in learning, like Gardiner's
 multiple  theory
 of intelligences that play a factor in if one learns in school,
 but thank
 goodness I was able to learn that anyone can learn from anyone,
 they just
 need to know how they learn and learn that way!
 I can give examples, but this email is already super long, so
 I'll get off
 education.
 My point is that most blind people aren?ì…³ taught about all 
the
 above things.
 I was super lucky because my parents let me run my IEP meetings
 and my mom
 became a TVI half way through my schooling, but every blind
 person needs to
 know that school can be amazing! It is worth spending 8-12 years
 of your
 life there getting your music degree or dentist degree.

 Another factor is that disabled people are fit into even a
 tighter mold of
 what they are to be when disabled people are the most unique of
 anyone.
 Blind people do not belong in special ed classes because they
 don't need
 special ed. Special ed teachers are people who teach extreme
 cases of
 autistic or other mentally disabled people. If a blind person is
 put into
 that environment and they don't need it, they will go insane!
 It's like if
 Stephen Hawking would have been born totally disabled and people
 stuck him
 into special ed just because he can't talk!
 Where would cosmology be?
 Sadly it's those who break out of the mold and assimilate their
 own way into
 sighted culture in order to evade the label of mentally disabled
 that are
 fighting for these rights.

 I keep on telling people that if someone is considered weird 
it's
 not them
 that's weird, it's you who's weird for thinking that they're
 weird. It's
 like you thinking the person in front of you is going through
 time the same
 way you are!

 Sadly the world is not reasonable, so we have to shuck reason 
and
 go for
 emotion. That's why we write all the super inspiring essays and
 that's why
 we have to assimilate into the sighted world.
 Those who end up working in low under minimum wage jobs have
 probably not
 learned how to assimilate enough to pass off as "normal" in the
 sighted
 community, so that's probably why they can't get the entry level
 jobs.

 Before someone gives the line about not needing to be anything
 other than
 blind because we are blind, let me just say that most of this
 world likes to
 think they are sighted and normal. Most people like to walk with
 the crowd.
 Those who never learn to walk with the crowd are considered
 weird, those who
 learn how to walk with the crowd then figure out how to rise
 above it are
 considered great.
 Thanks,

 Brandon Keith Biggs
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Arielle Silverman
 Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:27 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

 Hi Brandon,
 These are all good points. I like your statement about blind
 people
 who are "nurtured to act like they are mentally disabled" as I
 have
 met a few people who unfortunately seem to fit that description.
 The problem is that there is no objective test to determine what
 a
 person is or is not capable of doing. Even so-called objective
 tests
 like IQ tests are incredibly biased and don't account for
 environmental factors that artificially limit people's abilities
 or
 knowledge, like what is expected of them by parents and 
teachers,
 or
 what skills they are or are not taught. There is research 
showing
 that
 when people are expected to behave or perform in a certain way,
 they
 tend to fulfill that expectation (this is called a
 "self-fulfilling
 prophesy; if you're interested in the research, look up
 "Pygmalian
 effect"). So when teachers are randomly told that some kids are
 smarter than others, they tend to treat those "smart" kids
 differently
 without even realizing it and eventually the "smart" kids end up
 performing better than the other kids. The reverse pattern too
 often
 happens with disabilities. People have so many assumptions about
 how
 disabilities limit potential, and people in authority can act in
 ways
 that make those assumptions come true.
 I also agree that people with disabilities would be much more
 productive in sheltered jobs if they did work that was
 intrinsically
 interesting to them and if the work was in a field they were
 actually
 good at. It is common knowledge that people of all ages and
 mental
 abilities will do a better job at any task if they find the task
 enjoyable and motivating. Too often, sheltered jobs are simply
 too
 boring to really engage people. Also, people with disabilities
 have
 their own talents that are rarely utilized in sheltered jobs. I
 have
 figured out that if I were forced to do a sheltered workshop 
job,
 I
 would probably be the one losing them money if they paid me at
 minimum
 wage, because I have never been good at making stuff with my
 hands or
 using machines. Not only would I be bored to tears, but I just
 wouldn't be good at it. I am much better at writing and thinking
 and
 doing math, so I hope that society will let me use those skills
 instead of forcing me to do work I'm not skilled at.
 Regarding your comment about unemployment among the blind, it is
 true
 that many fields are accessible to the blind these days, yet the
 unemployment rate is still staggering. There are many reasons 
for
 unemployment among the blind. I think one reason is that
 employers
 want to hire applicants with relevant experience, and in many
 fields,
 the entry-level position that people get at first to gain
 experience
 isn't accessible to the blind. This might not be true with
 programming, but in some fields it is really hard to get your
 foot in
 the door even if it's easier to work at higher levels. For
 example,
 before becoming a teacher, you need to do student teaching, 
which
 means you are working under someone else who might not use
 accessible
 materials or who will doubt your ability to do the job. Without
 experience, it's harder to allay people's initial discriminatory
 doubts and fears about hiring a blind person. Also, even within
 an
 accessible field, individual employers might use materials that
 aren't
 accessible to the blind. So even though programming is very
 accessible, if some employers require you to use languages or
 scripts
 that aren't accessible, this will limit job options.
 Arielle

 On 6/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
 wrote:
 Hello,
 It's a tricky situation. We can't really say what it's like
 being mentally
 disabled and it's hard to say what mentally disabled can or can
 not do. We
 also can't tell if the blind who are nurtured to act like
 mentally
 disabled
 people really are mentally  disabled.
 *That's a mouthful!*
 I am of the opinion that mentally disabled people are way under
 employed
 and
 jobs like Goodwill are completely the wrong job for many of
 them. But I'm
 not a professional and I can only say from personal experience
 that many
 mentally disabled people can do what they want quite well and
 often it's
 because they are babied and misunderstood  that they are
 pressured into
 doing jobs they aren?ì…³ good at.

 I do wonder the need of blind adults to be working at good will
 in the
 first
 place though when it's not that hard learning programming and
 it's pretty
 easy to get reeducated for free in the United States as a blind
 person. If
 your career isn't working out, I don't see why one wouldn't just
 take a
 class at their community college and change their job. I believe
 SSI is
 for
 college students and those fresh out of college, or for a back
 up when
 work
 isn't coming. I am still a student, but I know I have for sure
 jobs if I
 go
 into programming or being a TVI. So other than the moral
 issues, I'm not
 sure why capable blind people are working at goodwill.
 Thanks,

 Brandon Keith Biggs
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Arielle Silverman
 Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 8:32 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

 Hi all,
 I don't shop at Goodwill either, but I was regularly donating
 items
 like used clothes to Goodwill, and my parents do as well. A
 customer
 boycott might not matter much but a donor boycott would probably
 hurt
 them considerably. I have to say I found Justin's arguments very
 persuasive. I just hope that if we boycott all branches
 nationally, we
 make it very clear that what we want is a change to national
 policy.
 Interestingly, I used to rent an apartment from a woman (I'll
 call her
 S) whose full-time job was to be a live-in caretaker for a woman
 with
 Down's syndrome and significant mental retardation (I'll call
 her C).
 Since I rented the apartment right below theirs, I got to know
 both S
 and C quite well and learned a bit about C's situation.
 Apparently C
 is employed by a program for people with intellectual
 disabilities
 similar to Goodwill's but it wasn't Goodwill itself. I think S.
 told
 me that C. was paid around $1 per hour for doing an extremely
 menial
 job although I don't remember what that job was exactly.
 However, I
 don't think C. had any living expenses at all because she lived
 rent-free with S. She may have been helping pay for groceries.
 The
 program she was in was very custodial and I'm not sure she even
 had
 independent access to the money she earned at her job.
 I don't think I can really judge whether people with
 disabilities like
 C.'s are capable of living without custodial care or spending
 their
 own money, any more than a deaf person should be able to judge
 how
 independent blind people can be. I do suspect that people like
 C.
 would achieve more if they were held to higher expectations, and
 higher expectations should come with higher wages and more
 freedom.
 I definitely believe that anyone who lives independently should
 be
 paid at least the minimum wage, and I think it is clear that
 blindness
 by itself doesn't prevent anyone from living independently