[nabs-l] Grad School
Deb Mendelsohn
deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com
Sun Jun 10 17:24:49 UTC 2012
R there any grad students in NAB?
I'm attending UA in Spring 4 MLS. R any of u going 2 Dallas?
Deb
Deb Cell (520) 225-8244
On Jun 10, 2012 10:17 AM, "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
wrote:
> Wow!
> You'll be moving to Mr Lewis's headquarters.
> Speaking of which, I'm about to start a new thread about that!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 6/10/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> > My new boyfriend is from Georgia, so yeah, I have a good idea of
> > whuaft kind of foods he likes, sort of. :)
> > Beth
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:49:37 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >
> > Beth, the blind cooks list can provide you with the info you
> > need, to
> > cook Southern food.
> > Where is your new boyfriend from?
> > Thanks, Joshua
> >
> > On 6/10/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> > First off, my boyfriend can't go to an independent living center
> > out of state. It took that to get me to learn daily living
> > skills. I live in my own, but I hate to live for two people.
> > You've got great points, Brandon. My boyfriend will have to do
> > daily living trainning, maybe I can find a daily living skills
> > teacher in his state that can help. I tried learning from a
> > daily living skills teacher, but the teachers I've worked with
> > never really told my parents they had to be patient. HE's lucky
> > his girlfriend is blind and can cook just as good as anyone.
> > Btw, I made a casserole one day, and it's great that I did. If
> > I
> > have to move out with my boyffriend, I'll have to learn and
> > teach
> > myself how to make deviled eggs and southern fried chicken, some
> > of his favorites. But I'll be that patient with him and help
> > him
> > get on his feet. I'll probably have to learn something, but I
> > think living in the bay area won't be possible. I have to live
> > where he is so that his heart doesn't get damaged or whuaftever.
> > I think we're better than the people at Goodwill, and .. oh
> > yeah, hopefully, we get good furniture from a furniture resale
> > store unlike Goodwill.
> > Beth
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 08:53:30 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >
> > Hello Beth,
> > let me first say that judging by your emails you definitely have
> > enough
> > reasoning and writing ability to get what ever degree you wish.
> > If you've
> > read literature on human trafficking you have seen the worst.
> > They shelter
> > you in schools because they don't want to get sued. That doctor
> > definitely
> > has no idea what he's talking about. If I were you, I'd go to
> > school and get
> > that counseling degree, then invite that doctor to my
> > graduation!
> > If money
> > is an issue, DOR and the state often have programs that can
> > fully
> > cover the
> > cost of school, minus housing and food.
> > Don't worry, you sound lots better informed than many people
> > that
> > I know
> > about personal finance. I was looking at the Hadley Business
> > section and I
> > was really wondering why they didn't have personal finance and
> > investing. I
> > don't know anyone other than brokers who have the education to
> > really make
> > something of their money. Sadly though, personal finance is one
> > of those
> > things that are expected one learns on their own. Like speaking
> > and
> > socializing, it should just be a given that everyone knows about
> > how to find
> > banks with high interest rates and low fees, everyone knows how
> > to budget
> > effectively, everyone knows how to find the best deals on food
> > and clothing,
> > and no one needs any help on running a family in school.
> > My communication teacher in school said that 99% of all the
> > students that
> > come to her class have never had a communication class in their
> > life, yet
> > 100% of her students have had to communicate.
> > We are both a little baffled at this logic, but that's how life
> > is I
> > guess...?
> > Personally I've found that those who have the most power over
> > people in this
> > world are those with money and those with exceptional
> > communication skills.
> > I would recommend everyone move to the Bay area here in CA and
> > go
> > to
> > Foothill College. The teachers there are exceptional and the
> > disability
> > center is the best in the west. They also give oober
> > scholarships
> > to those
> > students who come off as serious students *Points at his 9 grand
> > in
> > scholarships*.
> > Also, you don't need DOR to pay for any part of school, as one
> > can get
> > renewable scholarships at a community college to pay for every
> > part of
> > school, except for $47 by just being on SSI.
> > Beth, Here in the bay area we have a giant human trafficking
> > problem as we
> > are one of the major connection points for overseas travel. It's
> > on the
> > radio lots how they've caught slavers here and there, but
> > besides
> > that, the
> > Bay Area is so much for women's studies, I've not seen any
> > general college
> > that doesn't offer a degree in women's studies.
> > If I were anyone, I would totally move here to SF or go to NY,
> > because not
> > only is the blindness support so great, but public
> > transportation
> > is the
> > best in the nation for both those places.
> > But enough on me pushing SF...!
> > Beth, your boyfriend sounds like he could do with a liberal dose
> > of Daily
> > living skills. Here where I live, there is a center called the
> > "Vista
> > Center" and DOR contracts out teachers to help you become
> > independent. I
> > love those teachers, because with their help, I was able to move
> > out on my
> > own when I was 18.
> > I believe the Light House also has programs like this, and
> > Justin
> > was saying
> > something about attending a program that also teaches living
> > skills. But my
> > teacher says she encounters two types of people. There are those
> > who go
> > above and beyond what they were asked and actually do what they
> > were taught
> > on their own, then there are those who do the minimum possible.
> > They expect
> > everything to be spoon fed to them. The first group are the ones
> > who
> > generally make it in the world as successful individuals. Beth,
> > if I were
> > you, I'd have a down to earth talk with your Boyfriend, letting
> > him know
> > that as it stands people don't believe in his ability to take
> > care of
> > himself. He may think that he could take care of himself, but
> > you
> > can let
> > him know that he will have to prove it first. If he agrees, than
> > it's time
> > to look for a daily living skills teacher. If not, he may want
> > to
> > be sent to
> > one of the independent living facilities, so he can see first
> > hand why he
> > must learn living skills in order to be free.
> > I don't believe marriage should be really talked about until
> > after your
> > Boyfriend proves his stuff. Because Beth, you've got your life
> > to
> > live and
> > you should not be forced to live for two people which you would
> > be doing if
> > you married and moved out with your boyfriend as things are now.
> >
> > I know what you mean about not going to prom. I never went to
> > prom with a
> > girl when I was in High school. I actually didn't get a
> > girlfriend till my
> > last year of High School and I broke up with her 5 months later.
> > I didn't
> > have another till a little over a year after that. It was with
> > that second
> > girlfriend that I went to prom. Frankly, school dances are the
> > worst things
> > since the invention of eyes.
> > If you like loud music beating so loud that you can't hear
> > yourself think,
> > let alone hear your date talking, and if you like being squeezed
> > together on
> > all sides by grinding individuals, and if you're being shown how
> > to dance by
> > your partner, the only word I can label this, is hell.
> > The romantic things before and after the dance are great, but
> > the
> > dance
> > itself is terrible. So let me assure you that except for the
> > romantic part,
> > you did not miss much at the prom. They didn't even play the
> > Blue
> > Danube at
> > the prom I went to! I thought that was required in order to have
> > a dance to
> > call themselves a dance?
> > anyways, in my opinion the education is much more important when
> > you're
> > going through school than the social aspects. In college though,
> > guys become
> > much smarter and women become way more emotionally sound, just
> > because they
> > have lived and learned much more through their life.
> > Most of the girls I've thought about dating have not been mature
> > enough in
> > some aspect of their life. My last girlfriend was too immature
> > when it came
> > to being focused and I learned the hard way that you should
> > never
> > expect
> > people to change. So part of my problem about having a small
> > social life is
> > that even now, I find that the women I'm attracted to are still
> > much to
> > immature in some way for any kind of relationship to work.
> > But for high school, I was not socially mature and even now I'm
> > not socially
> > mature enough to really fit in the sighted world. This is the
> > biggest
> > problem I've found, blind people are not able to pass themselves
> > off as good
> > relationship material in the sighted world. If the world was
> > only
> > blind this
> > would be different, but because we live in a sight run culture,
> > being able
> > to be socially mature to those who are sighted is crucial if one
> > wants to
> > make it in anything other than strictly working in something
> > like
> > the NFB or
> > Goodwill.
> > We have to work extra hard at understanding what sighted people
> > think and
> > how sighted people do things in order to live as the sighted
> > people. Once
> > we're able to pass ourselves off enough so no one believes we're
> > blind, we
> > should then and only then, begin to emphasize the fact that we
> > are blind.
> > Because if we establish to people that we're blind first, they
> > will look no
> > farther than our disability. In sighted human evolution, being
> > disabled is
> > repulsive and we've got to fight against nature in order to do
> > anything in
> > the sighted world. Once one is able to show that they are a
> > sighted person
> > first, then they can show they are blind and at that point, one
> > is able to
> > make blindness something to be desired and interesting, not
> > repulsive and
> > weird.
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Brandon Keith Biggs
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Beth
> > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:01 AM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >
> > Great points, Brandon. As someone who is both blind and
> > mentally
> > ill, I understand how it feels to be considered weird. I've
> > been
> > called a creep, told by some girl to my boyfriend's face that he
> > could do better due to my disorder, and then threatened with all
> > kinds of emotional attack and abuse. Due to blindness, I was
> > told by the docs I'd be a vegetable. Huh? My dad says I'm a
> > genius. I don't know, but my last IQ check said I was a 133,
> > superior without all the visual battery of tests. But then
> > again, IQ isn't everything. I live in Denver, alone, with no
> > roommate to pander to my every need. I probably should say that
> > with the right support and good friends around me, I could
> > thrive. I could become a "normal" woman, work a "normal" job,
> > and get "normal" wages. I could take care of children, my own
> > children, and raise them to be good people, productive citizens
> > of the United States of America, and I'd look forward to good
> > days and bad days along the way. My old cane teacher is a
> > fountain of wisdom when it comes to life's miseries, and the
> > rapids of life don't get any higher than what they are. I could
> > get deeper and say that God doesn't put us in a river with
> > rapids
> > that could not be handled by the rider. One of the biggest
> > "whitewater rapids" so to speak is the employment and wages
> > thing. Brandon and Arielle, you guys make a good point in that
> > blind people are trained to act like mentally disabled people.
> > My boyfriend doesn't know money. I wonder if I can possibly
> > teach him the basics of money management and budgeting. I
> > struggle with it myself because SSI is too little to live off
> > of,
> > and I was given a plane ticket, but not the money for baggage
> > fees and cab fare to get to and from the airport. So I'm stuck
> > paying for that. My boyfriend also doesn't know how to keep
> > track of his own wages, and if he becomes a big-time producer
> > for
> > all sorts of rappers who would run to him, I don't know how he's
> > going to run the household and help me pay my bills too. What
> > if
> > I'm incapacitated for real this time? I mean, like, Terry
> > Shiavo? How's Jason, who I may designate as a healthcare
> > surrogate, going to make that decision? My hope is that he
> > won't
> > have to do that, but if that happens, I need someone that I feel
> > can be trusted to make the decisions about my bills and stuff.
> > I
> > was asked by my boyfriend's mom of all people to help her with
> > him a bit. Just to think of Jason in the situation he's in just
> > makes me so sick. I want him to manage his own wages, cook me a
> > meal if I get sick, and fry me some chicken or grill a burger on
> > Memorial Day. He has the potential to do those things, and the
> > weird part is that his parents are open to us having a
> > relationship. Most disabled people's parents, including but not
> > limited to my own, are not as open about relations with poorer
> > people. Both Jason and I are poor, but I think we can live
> > together successfully with all the right supports, and if we
> > can't find jobs, so what? We need family support to get by.
> > But
> > I really do dream of having my own private house, being able to
> > manage my bills, being able to buy foods that are nutritious to
> > my children and so on, and feeding the baby and having Jason
> > there to have breakfast with in the mornings, and not his old
> > mother. Not to say she's bad, but it's a dream I want to have.
> > My mother should not have to manage my money. Yes, I'm not so
> > good at money management, but I've learned a few lessons like
> > how
> > to go back and look at your payment history every time if you
> > get
> > suspicious about a charge. Like if the bills are on autopay,
> > you
> > have to look back and see if the weird corporate robbers, if I
> > may use such a cold term, are stealing your money. I felt
> > Comcast was robbing me of my precious money, and especially this
> > month
> > because of a trip, and next month because of a move I have to
> > do,
> > I can't afford a $70 internet bill. That's just too much unless
> > you're really living in low income housing. I know a lot about
> > disabled or low income housing. Boy, my boyfriend has a lot to
> > learn, and he'll learn lots while I'm with him. Lots of times,
> > blind people are sheltered by their parents, and of course, the
> > parents I had were good parents, no doubt, but they had their
> > flaws. Jason is lucky in some ways, but his parents said the
> > same stuff that all sighted people say, "He has it made. We
> > wait
> > on him hand and foot ..." And so on. This creates a problem.
> > Blind people need to not be waited on hand and foot. We can't
> > necessarily be pandered to our every need like little Veruca
> > Salt
> > in charlie and the Chocolate Factory if I may reference a
> > spoiled
> > literary figure. We can't be pandered or revered as Helen
> > Keller
> > was by her family in her early years. Unlike Jason, Helen was
> > deaf and in me and Jason's time, jobs are ample, and skills are
> > ample thanks to technology. With Helen Keller's time, there
> > were
> > no jobs open, and marriage and motherhood were closed to Helen.
> > I as a blind woman am thankful that marriage is open to
> > me--hence
> > the boyfriend I currently have--and relationships period. Jobs
> > and technology have risen while I was growing up. It only seems
> > like yesterday that I would not be sending this superbly long
> > email. Thanks to emails and Facebook and Twitter, I feel much
> > more connected to my friends and family, and especially to my
> > dear cousin Sarah, but yet she never calls me. Ha ha. But
> > thanks to cell phones, I can go anywhere and give everyone a
> > text
> > message. Imagine poor blind Beth texting! It only seems like
> > yesterday that my parents didn't think I needed an accessible
> > phone, but when I fought to get an accessible phone, and my
> > ex-boyfriend taught me how to write letters on the phone, which
> > is a skill I still fail at sometimes (lol), I have texted my
> > friends and I can receive texts from people. I would hate to
> > change my address, but I do that. I will be in Denver for a
> > good
> > while so I can do my college and keep the ducks in a row as I
> > would hear my mother say. When I get my ducks in a row, I plan
> > to move on to bigger and better things, and I want to get a job
> > helping human trafficking victims. Denver has a strong victim
> > advocate program, but that's only the Muslim Family Services
> > that
> > may have that. I'd heard that Atlanta has a big problem with
> > human trafficking. Well, so do some areas of Florida, but if
> > there's slavery and trafficking, I'll be there to stop it. I'd
> > like to give former slaves and prostitutes a chance at life, but
> > where will I go without a college degree in women's studies and
> > a
> > good background in such matters? I was never trafficked, but I
> > have read countless literature, and have seen it firsthand or
> > through others, what sorts of cruelty exist in the world.
> > To keep the message on topic, I want to say that such a job
> > helping human trafficking victims shouldn't require a social
> > work
> > degree, which the doc says I'm too messed up to do. I want to
> > advise all of us to please take suspicious statements like,
> > "She's pretending to be a certain ethnic group" or "She's not
> > fit
> > to do something because of mental deficiencies." What sort of
> > nonsensical statements these are! DVR in Colorado doesn't seem
> > to get it. They tell me I'm too messed up for college but they
> > don't seem to understand that the importance of college is more
> > to me than anybody. My brothers are taking college classes, and
> > they will graduate, marry, and have families as expected. But
> > what will I do? My parents will dictate who I will marry due to
> > gender and blindness, they will tell me what talents I have
> > because I'm so "malleable", as some people think blind people
> > are, and then my teachers, doctors, psychologists, social
> > workers, and case managers will either take my babies or let me
> > keep them with sighted supervision, and so on. But going
> > through
> > school is not easy. Brandon, you said school is great, but you
> > don't realize that as a blind person in a million living in a
> > small town, nobody cared to dance with me at homecoming or prom.
> > That's the price I paid for being blind. Nobody cared to offer
> > me flowers on a date. I didn't have the normal teenager things
> > that every teenage girl dreams about. If I have a daughter, I
> > want to dress her up for prom and her wedding day with such
> > pride
> > a mother would share with her spouse and daughter alike. My
> > mother never got that opportunity with me. She would help me
> > into my chorus dresses, but those were mere obligations to the
> > school. My mom believed that prom was for dates only, and
> > summer
> > jobs? Out of the question. I can't get a good experience if I
> > am not allowed to work. Titusville is a small town in Florida,
> > and I and another man were the only blind people in it. I being
> > the only and youngest blind woman in the town couldn't be
> > offered
> > a job. The only jobs offered were at the hospital, where
> > medical
> > experience was required, and the Space Center, where engineering
> > degrees were preferred. My dad can attest to the people he's
> > interviewed for jobs, and unfortunately, there's not enough
> > blind
> > computer engineers, except those in the underground geek
> > industry
> > as I like to call it, to go around. We also need to learn to
> > communicate with others who are sighted, speak their language so
> > to speak.
> > Ok, my rant is over.
> > Beth
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 23:57:32 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >
> > Hello,
> > I'm sure many people who have talked to me before know what I'm
> > going to
> > say...
> > It's the educational system that many of these problems come
> > down
> > to. We
> > have teachers coming out of school who are not inspired to
> > create
> > a new
> > style of teaching. We have teachers who are never taught about
> > disabled
> > students. We have blind students who are never taught how to ask
> > for
> > accommodations. We have parents who think being blind is bad!
> > Honestly, if I could have redone my education as a sighted
> > person, I would
> > not have done it. Being blind is such an advantage in the United
> > States when
> > going through school. You get extra time on everything, you get
> > leniency on
> > all your assignments if you can't finish them on time, you get
> > free
> > schooling, you get paid to go through school by SSI, you have so
> > many
> > scholarships you can apply for, you can use the law to fight for
> > accessibility with little retribution, you become great friends
> > with your
> > teachers just because you get to talk to them all the time, you
> > are by
> > nature a very active participant in your class, you are able to
> > read your
> > books 1000 times faster than all of the other students combined,
> > you're able
> > to get tutoring for free, you don't have to feel ashamed for
> > taking
> > advantage of any of the above benefits because you're disabled
> > and that's
> > what you're expected to do!
> > Also, the expectation of your teachers is rather low and when
> > you
> > get 100%
> > on all their hardest tests they get all embarrassed, people
> > think
> > it's
> > amazing that you're getting strait As when it's nothing,
> > (Stereotypically)
> > blind people are very unsocial so they have lots of extra time
> > to
> > do school
> > work, you're able to actually edit your teacher's handouts and
> > instructions
> > because Jaws doesn't miss skipped letters, if you have a problem
> > with your
> > online test you can blame it on your screen reader crashing the
> > web browser,
> > state colleges gobble you up if you have ever taken an honors
> > class at a
> > community college and you have good grades and you've written
> > one
> > of those
> > inspiring essays, when you write inspiring essays you can get
> > the
> > super
> > arrogant feeling for a moment and say "That's me in the essay!",
> > you're able
> > to participate in all kinds of extra activities through agencies
> > like Global
> > explorers or the Light House, you can participate in summer job
> > programs
> > like YES1 and YES2 in Washington State, when you go to community
> > college or
> > state college you're given a guide through the school because
> > you
> > need a
> > mobility lesson and you have the disability resource person.
> > I should probably stop, but you get the idea...
> > It's probably because I was homeschooled for the first few years
> > of my life
> > and did all kinds of super awesome things with my overly amazing
> > parents and
> > didn't enter public school till 5th grade that I have this view
> > of school,
> > but I understood that I could learn in public school and it was
> > just that
> > either the teacher wasn't teaching me or that I wasn't equipped
> > with the
> > skills or technology that was keeping me from learning.
> > There are many other factors in learning, like Gardiner's
> > multiple theory
> > of intelligences that play a factor in if one learns in school,
> > but thank
> > goodness I was able to learn that anyone can learn from anyone,
> > they just
> > need to know how they learn and learn that way!
> > I can give examples, but this email is already super long, so
> > I'll get off
> > education.
> > My point is that most blind people aren?셳 taught about all
> > the
> > above things.
> > I was super lucky because my parents let me run my IEP meetings
> > and my mom
> > became a TVI half way through my schooling, but every blind
> > person needs to
> > know that school can be amazing! It is worth spending 8-12 years
> > of your
> > life there getting your music degree or dentist degree.
> >
> > Another factor is that disabled people are fit into even a
> > tighter mold of
> > what they are to be when disabled people are the most unique of
> > anyone.
> > Blind people do not belong in special ed classes because they
> > don't need
> > special ed. Special ed teachers are people who teach extreme
> > cases of
> > autistic or other mentally disabled people. If a blind person is
> > put into
> > that environment and they don't need it, they will go insane!
> > It's like if
> > Stephen Hawking would have been born totally disabled and people
> > stuck him
> > into special ed just because he can't talk!
> > Where would cosmology be?
> > Sadly it's those who break out of the mold and assimilate their
> > own way into
> > sighted culture in order to evade the label of mentally disabled
> > that are
> > fighting for these rights.
> >
> > I keep on telling people that if someone is considered weird
> > it's
> > not them
> > that's weird, it's you who's weird for thinking that they're
> > weird. It's
> > like you thinking the person in front of you is going through
> > time the same
> > way you are!
> >
> > Sadly the world is not reasonable, so we have to shuck reason
> > and
> > go for
> > emotion. That's why we write all the super inspiring essays and
> > that's why
> > we have to assimilate into the sighted world.
> > Those who end up working in low under minimum wage jobs have
> > probably not
> > learned how to assimilate enough to pass off as "normal" in the
> > sighted
> > community, so that's probably why they can't get the entry level
> > jobs.
> >
> > Before someone gives the line about not needing to be anything
> > other than
> > blind because we are blind, let me just say that most of this
> > world likes to
> > think they are sighted and normal. Most people like to walk with
> > the crowd.
> > Those who never learn to walk with the crowd are considered
> > weird, those who
> > learn how to walk with the crowd then figure out how to rise
> > above it are
> > considered great.
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Brandon Keith Biggs
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Arielle Silverman
> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:27 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >
> > Hi Brandon,
> > These are all good points. I like your statement about blind
> > people
> > who are "nurtured to act like they are mentally disabled" as I
> > have
> > met a few people who unfortunately seem to fit that description.
> > The problem is that there is no objective test to determine what
> > a
> > person is or is not capable of doing. Even so-called objective
> > tests
> > like IQ tests are incredibly biased and don't account for
> > environmental factors that artificially limit people's abilities
> > or
> > knowledge, like what is expected of them by parents and
> > teachers,
> > or
> > what skills they are or are not taught. There is research
> > showing
> > that
> > when people are expected to behave or perform in a certain way,
> > they
> > tend to fulfill that expectation (this is called a
> > "self-fulfilling
> > prophesy; if you're interested in the research, look up
> > "Pygmalian
> > effect"). So when teachers are randomly told that some kids are
> > smarter than others, they tend to treat those "smart" kids
> > differently
> > without even realizing it and eventually the "smart" kids end up
> > performing better than the other kids. The reverse pattern too
> > often
> > happens with disabilities. People have so many assumptions about
> > how
> > disabilities limit potential, and people in authority can act in
> > ways
> > that make those assumptions come true.
> > I also agree that people with disabilities would be much more
> > productive in sheltered jobs if they did work that was
> > intrinsically
> > interesting to them and if the work was in a field they were
> > actually
> > good at. It is common knowledge that people of all ages and
> > mental
> > abilities will do a better job at any task if they find the task
> > enjoyable and motivating. Too often, sheltered jobs are simply
> > too
> > boring to really engage people. Also, people with disabilities
> > have
> > their own talents that are rarely utilized in sheltered jobs. I
> > have
> > figured out that if I were forced to do a sheltered workshop
> > job,
> > I
> > would probably be the one losing them money if they paid me at
> > minimum
> > wage, because I have never been good at making stuff with my
> > hands or
> > using machines. Not only would I be bored to tears, but I just
> > wouldn't be good at it. I am much better at writing and thinking
> > and
> > doing math, so I hope that society will let me use those skills
> > instead of forcing me to do work I'm not skilled at.
> > Regarding your comment about unemployment among the blind, it is
> > true
> > that many fields are accessible to the blind these days, yet the
> > unemployment rate is still staggering. There are many reasons
> > for
> > unemployment among the blind. I think one reason is that
> > employers
> > want to hire applicants with relevant experience, and in many
> > fields,
> > the entry-level position that people get at first to gain
> > experience
> > isn't accessible to the blind. This might not be true with
> > programming, but in some fields it is really hard to get your
> > foot in
> > the door even if it's easier to work at higher levels. For
> > example,
> > before becoming a teacher, you need to do student teaching,
> > which
> > means you are working under someone else who might not use
> > accessible
> > materials or who will doubt your ability to do the job. Without
> > experience, it's harder to allay people's initial discriminatory
> > doubts and fears about hiring a blind person. Also, even within
> > an
> > accessible field, individual employers might use materials that
> > aren't
> > accessible to the blind. So even though programming is very
> > accessible, if some employers require you to use languages or
> > scripts
> > that aren't accessible, this will limit job options.
> > Arielle
> >
> > On 6/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> > wrote:
> > Hello,
> > It's a tricky situation. We can't really say what it's like
> > being mentally
> > disabled and it's hard to say what mentally disabled can or can
> > not do. We
> > also can't tell if the blind who are nurtured to act like
> > mentally
> > disabled
> > people really are mentally disabled.
> > *That's a mouthful!*
> > I am of the opinion that mentally disabled people are way under
> > employed
> > and
> > jobs like Goodwill are completely the wrong job for many of
> > them. But I'm
> > not a professional and I can only say from personal experience
> > that many
> > mentally disabled people can do what they want quite well and
> > often it's
> > because they are babied and misunderstood that they are
> > pressured into
> > doing jobs they aren?셳 good at.
> >
> > I do wonder the need of blind adults to be working at good will
> > in the
> > first
> > place though when it's not that hard learning programming and
> > it's pretty
> > easy to get reeducated for free in the United States as a blind
> > person. If
> > your career isn't working out, I don't see why one wouldn't just
> > take a
> > class at their community college and change their job. I believe
> > SSI is
> > for
> > college students and those fresh out of college, or for a back
> > up when
> > work
> > isn't coming. I am still a student, but I know I have for sure
> > jobs if I
> > go
> > into programming or being a TVI. So other than the moral
> > issues, I'm not
> > sure why capable blind people are working at goodwill.
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Brandon Keith Biggs
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Arielle Silverman
> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 8:32 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I don't shop at Goodwill either, but I was regularly donating
> > items
> > like used clothes to Goodwill, and my parents do as well. A
> > customer
> > boycott might not matter much but a donor boycott would probably
> > hurt
> > them considerably. I have to say I found Justin's arguments very
> > persuasive. I just hope that if we boycott all branches
> > nationally, we
> > make it very clear that what we want is a change to national
> > policy.
> > Interestingly, I used to rent an apartment from a woman (I'll
> > call her
> > S) whose full-time job was to be a live-in caretaker for a woman
> > with
> > Down's syndrome and significant mental retardation (I'll call
> > her C).
> > Since I rented the apartment right below theirs, I got to know
> > both S
> > and C quite well and learned a bit about C's situation.
> > Apparently C
> > is employed by a program for people with intellectual
> > disabilities
> > similar to Goodwill's but it wasn't Goodwill itself. I think S.
> > told
> > me that C. was paid around $1 per hour for doing an extremely
> > menial
> > job although I don't remember what that job was exactly.
> > However, I
> > don't think C. had any living expenses at all because she lived
> > rent-free with S. She may have been helping pay for groceries.
> > The
> > program she was in was very custodial and I'm not sure she even
> > had
> > independent access to the money she earned at her job.
> > I don't think I can really judge whether people with
> > disabilities like
> > C.'s are capable of living without custodial care or spending
> > their
> > own money, any more than a deaf person should be able to judge
> > how
> > independent blind people can be. I do suspect that people like
> > C.
> > would achieve more if they were held to higher expectations, and
> > higher expectations should come with higher wages and more
> > freedom.
> > I definitely believe that anyone who lives independently should
> > be
> > paid at least the minimum wage, and I think it is clear that
> > blindness
> > by itself doesn't prevent anyone from living independently
> >
>
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