[nabs-l] Grad School
Joshua Lester
jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
Sun Jun 10 17:39:18 UTC 2012
Wow!
What's your major?
I'm not going to grad school, but I'm getting my degree in Behavioral
Health, in May of 2013.
Thanks, Joshua
On 6/10/12, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> No sorry. UA UNIVERSITY OF AZ.
>
> Deb Cell (520) 225-8244
> On Jun 10, 2012 10:31 AM, "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> UA, as in Arkansas?
>> I'll be in Dallas!
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 6/10/12, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > R there any grad students in NAB?
>> > I'm attending UA in Spring 4 MLS. R any of u going 2 Dallas?
>> > Deb
>> >
>> > Deb Cell (520) 225-8244
>> > On Jun 10, 2012 10:17 AM, "Joshua Lester" <
>> jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Wow!
>> >> You'll be moving to Mr Lewis's headquarters.
>> >> Speaking of which, I'm about to start a new thread about that!
>> >> Blessings, Joshua
>> >>
>> >> On 6/10/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > My new boyfriend is from Georgia, so yeah, I have a good idea of
>> >> > whuaft kind of foods he likes, sort of. :)
>> >> > Beth
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:49:37 -0500
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Beth, the blind cooks list can provide you with the info you
>> >> > need, to
>> >> > cook Southern food.
>> >> > Where is your new boyfriend from?
>> >> > Thanks, Joshua
>> >> >
>> >> > On 6/10/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > First off, my boyfriend can't go to an independent living center
>> >> > out of state. It took that to get me to learn daily living
>> >> > skills. I live in my own, but I hate to live for two people.
>> >> > You've got great points, Brandon. My boyfriend will have to do
>> >> > daily living trainning, maybe I can find a daily living skills
>> >> > teacher in his state that can help. I tried learning from a
>> >> > daily living skills teacher, but the teachers I've worked with
>> >> > never really told my parents they had to be patient. HE's lucky
>> >> > his girlfriend is blind and can cook just as good as anyone.
>> >> > Btw, I made a casserole one day, and it's great that I did. If
>> >> > I
>> >> > have to move out with my boyffriend, I'll have to learn and
>> >> > teach
>> >> > myself how to make deviled eggs and southern fried chicken, some
>> >> > of his favorites. But I'll be that patient with him and help
>> >> > him
>> >> > get on his feet. I'll probably have to learn something, but I
>> >> > think living in the bay area won't be possible. I have to live
>> >> > where he is so that his heart doesn't get damaged or whuaftever.
>> >> > I think we're better than the people at Goodwill, and .. oh
>> >> > yeah, hopefully, we get good furniture from a furniture resale
>> >> > store unlike Goodwill.
>> >> > Beth
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 08:53:30 -0700
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello Beth,
>> >> > let me first say that judging by your emails you definitely have
>> >> > enough
>> >> > reasoning and writing ability to get what ever degree you wish.
>> >> > If you've
>> >> > read literature on human trafficking you have seen the worst.
>> >> > They shelter
>> >> > you in schools because they don't want to get sued. That doctor
>> >> > definitely
>> >> > has no idea what he's talking about. If I were you, I'd go to
>> >> > school and get
>> >> > that counseling degree, then invite that doctor to my
>> >> > graduation!
>> >> > If money
>> >> > is an issue, DOR and the state often have programs that can
>> >> > fully
>> >> > cover the
>> >> > cost of school, minus housing and food.
>> >> > Don't worry, you sound lots better informed than many people
>> >> > that
>> >> > I know
>> >> > about personal finance. I was looking at the Hadley Business
>> >> > section and I
>> >> > was really wondering why they didn't have personal finance and
>> >> > investing. I
>> >> > don't know anyone other than brokers who have the education to
>> >> > really make
>> >> > something of their money. Sadly though, personal finance is one
>> >> > of those
>> >> > things that are expected one learns on their own. Like speaking
>> >> > and
>> >> > socializing, it should just be a given that everyone knows about
>> >> > how to find
>> >> > banks with high interest rates and low fees, everyone knows how
>> >> > to budget
>> >> > effectively, everyone knows how to find the best deals on food
>> >> > and clothing,
>> >> > and no one needs any help on running a family in school.
>> >> > My communication teacher in school said that 99% of all the
>> >> > students that
>> >> > come to her class have never had a communication class in their
>> >> > life, yet
>> >> > 100% of her students have had to communicate.
>> >> > We are both a little baffled at this logic, but that's how life
>> >> > is I
>> >> > guess...?
>> >> > Personally I've found that those who have the most power over
>> >> > people in this
>> >> > world are those with money and those with exceptional
>> >> > communication skills.
>> >> > I would recommend everyone move to the Bay area here in CA and
>> >> > go
>> >> > to
>> >> > Foothill College. The teachers there are exceptional and the
>> >> > disability
>> >> > center is the best in the west. They also give oober
>> >> > scholarships
>> >> > to those
>> >> > students who come off as serious students *Points at his 9 grand
>> >> > in
>> >> > scholarships*.
>> >> > Also, you don't need DOR to pay for any part of school, as one
>> >> > can get
>> >> > renewable scholarships at a community college to pay for every
>> >> > part of
>> >> > school, except for $47 by just being on SSI.
>> >> > Beth, Here in the bay area we have a giant human trafficking
>> >> > problem as we
>> >> > are one of the major connection points for overseas travel. It's
>> >> > on the
>> >> > radio lots how they've caught slavers here and there, but
>> >> > besides
>> >> > that, the
>> >> > Bay Area is so much for women's studies, I've not seen any
>> >> > general college
>> >> > that doesn't offer a degree in women's studies.
>> >> > If I were anyone, I would totally move here to SF or go to NY,
>> >> > because not
>> >> > only is the blindness support so great, but public
>> >> > transportation
>> >> > is the
>> >> > best in the nation for both those places.
>> >> > But enough on me pushing SF...!
>> >> > Beth, your boyfriend sounds like he could do with a liberal dose
>> >> > of Daily
>> >> > living skills. Here where I live, there is a center called the
>> >> > "Vista
>> >> > Center" and DOR contracts out teachers to help you become
>> >> > independent. I
>> >> > love those teachers, because with their help, I was able to move
>> >> > out on my
>> >> > own when I was 18.
>> >> > I believe the Light House also has programs like this, and
>> >> > Justin
>> >> > was saying
>> >> > something about attending a program that also teaches living
>> >> > skills. But my
>> >> > teacher says she encounters two types of people. There are those
>> >> > who go
>> >> > above and beyond what they were asked and actually do what they
>> >> > were taught
>> >> > on their own, then there are those who do the minimum possible.
>> >> > They expect
>> >> > everything to be spoon fed to them. The first group are the ones
>> >> > who
>> >> > generally make it in the world as successful individuals. Beth,
>> >> > if I were
>> >> > you, I'd have a down to earth talk with your Boyfriend, letting
>> >> > him know
>> >> > that as it stands people don't believe in his ability to take
>> >> > care of
>> >> > himself. He may think that he could take care of himself, but
>> >> > you
>> >> > can let
>> >> > him know that he will have to prove it first. If he agrees, than
>> >> > it's time
>> >> > to look for a daily living skills teacher. If not, he may want
>> >> > to
>> >> > be sent to
>> >> > one of the independent living facilities, so he can see first
>> >> > hand why he
>> >> > must learn living skills in order to be free.
>> >> > I don't believe marriage should be really talked about until
>> >> > after your
>> >> > Boyfriend proves his stuff. Because Beth, you've got your life
>> >> > to
>> >> > live and
>> >> > you should not be forced to live for two people which you would
>> >> > be doing if
>> >> > you married and moved out with your boyfriend as things are now.
>> >> >
>> >> > I know what you mean about not going to prom. I never went to
>> >> > prom with a
>> >> > girl when I was in High school. I actually didn't get a
>> >> > girlfriend till my
>> >> > last year of High School and I broke up with her 5 months later.
>> >> > I didn't
>> >> > have another till a little over a year after that. It was with
>> >> > that second
>> >> > girlfriend that I went to prom. Frankly, school dances are the
>> >> > worst things
>> >> > since the invention of eyes.
>> >> > If you like loud music beating so loud that you can't hear
>> >> > yourself think,
>> >> > let alone hear your date talking, and if you like being squeezed
>> >> > together on
>> >> > all sides by grinding individuals, and if you're being shown how
>> >> > to dance by
>> >> > your partner, the only word I can label this, is hell.
>> >> > The romantic things before and after the dance are great, but
>> >> > the
>> >> > dance
>> >> > itself is terrible. So let me assure you that except for the
>> >> > romantic part,
>> >> > you did not miss much at the prom. They didn't even play the
>> >> > Blue
>> >> > Danube at
>> >> > the prom I went to! I thought that was required in order to have
>> >> > a dance to
>> >> > call themselves a dance?
>> >> > anyways, in my opinion the education is much more important when
>> >> > you're
>> >> > going through school than the social aspects. In college though,
>> >> > guys become
>> >> > much smarter and women become way more emotionally sound, just
>> >> > because they
>> >> > have lived and learned much more through their life.
>> >> > Most of the girls I've thought about dating have not been mature
>> >> > enough in
>> >> > some aspect of their life. My last girlfriend was too immature
>> >> > when it came
>> >> > to being focused and I learned the hard way that you should
>> >> > never
>> >> > expect
>> >> > people to change. So part of my problem about having a small
>> >> > social life is
>> >> > that even now, I find that the women I'm attracted to are still
>> >> > much to
>> >> > immature in some way for any kind of relationship to work.
>> >> > But for high school, I was not socially mature and even now I'm
>> >> > not socially
>> >> > mature enough to really fit in the sighted world. This is the
>> >> > biggest
>> >> > problem I've found, blind people are not able to pass themselves
>> >> > off as good
>> >> > relationship material in the sighted world. If the world was
>> >> > only
>> >> > blind this
>> >> > would be different, but because we live in a sight run culture,
>> >> > being able
>> >> > to be socially mature to those who are sighted is crucial if one
>> >> > wants to
>> >> > make it in anything other than strictly working in something
>> >> > like
>> >> > the NFB or
>> >> > Goodwill.
>> >> > We have to work extra hard at understanding what sighted people
>> >> > think and
>> >> > how sighted people do things in order to live as the sighted
>> >> > people. Once
>> >> > we're able to pass ourselves off enough so no one believes we're
>> >> > blind, we
>> >> > should then and only then, begin to emphasize the fact that we
>> >> > are blind.
>> >> > Because if we establish to people that we're blind first, they
>> >> > will look no
>> >> > farther than our disability. In sighted human evolution, being
>> >> > disabled is
>> >> > repulsive and we've got to fight against nature in order to do
>> >> > anything in
>> >> > the sighted world. Once one is able to show that they are a
>> >> > sighted person
>> >> > first, then they can show they are blind and at that point, one
>> >> > is able to
>> >> > make blindness something to be desired and interesting, not
>> >> > repulsive and
>> >> > weird.
>> >> > Thank you,
>> >> >
>> >> > Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Beth
>> >> > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:01 AM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Great points, Brandon. As someone who is both blind and
>> >> > mentally
>> >> > ill, I understand how it feels to be considered weird. I've
>> >> > been
>> >> > called a creep, told by some girl to my boyfriend's face that he
>> >> > could do better due to my disorder, and then threatened with all
>> >> > kinds of emotional attack and abuse. Due to blindness, I was
>> >> > told by the docs I'd be a vegetable. Huh? My dad says I'm a
>> >> > genius. I don't know, but my last IQ check said I was a 133,
>> >> > superior without all the visual battery of tests. But then
>> >> > again, IQ isn't everything. I live in Denver, alone, with no
>> >> > roommate to pander to my every need. I probably should say that
>> >> > with the right support and good friends around me, I could
>> >> > thrive. I could become a "normal" woman, work a "normal" job,
>> >> > and get "normal" wages. I could take care of children, my own
>> >> > children, and raise them to be good people, productive citizens
>> >> > of the United States of America, and I'd look forward to good
>> >> > days and bad days along the way. My old cane teacher is a
>> >> > fountain of wisdom when it comes to life's miseries, and the
>> >> > rapids of life don't get any higher than what they are. I could
>> >> > get deeper and say that God doesn't put us in a river with
>> >> > rapids
>> >> > that could not be handled by the rider. One of the biggest
>> >> > "whitewater rapids" so to speak is the employment and wages
>> >> > thing. Brandon and Arielle, you guys make a good point in that
>> >> > blind people are trained to act like mentally disabled people.
>> >> > My boyfriend doesn't know money. I wonder if I can possibly
>> >> > teach him the basics of money management and budgeting. I
>> >> > struggle with it myself because SSI is too little to live off
>> >> > of,
>> >> > and I was given a plane ticket, but not the money for baggage
>> >> > fees and cab fare to get to and from the airport. So I'm stuck
>> >> > paying for that. My boyfriend also doesn't know how to keep
>> >> > track of his own wages, and if he becomes a big-time producer
>> >> > for
>> >> > all sorts of rappers who would run to him, I don't know how he's
>> >> > going to run the household and help me pay my bills too. What
>> >> > if
>> >> > I'm incapacitated for real this time? I mean, like, Terry
>> >> > Shiavo? How's Jason, who I may designate as a healthcare
>> >> > surrogate, going to make that decision? My hope is that he
>> >> > won't
>> >> > have to do that, but if that happens, I need someone that I feel
>> >> > can be trusted to make the decisions about my bills and stuff.
>> >> > I
>> >> > was asked by my boyfriend's mom of all people to help her with
>> >> > him a bit. Just to think of Jason in the situation he's in just
>> >> > makes me so sick. I want him to manage his own wages, cook me a
>> >> > meal if I get sick, and fry me some chicken or grill a burger on
>> >> > Memorial Day. He has the potential to do those things, and the
>> >> > weird part is that his parents are open to us having a
>> >> > relationship. Most disabled people's parents, including but not
>> >> > limited to my own, are not as open about relations with poorer
>> >> > people. Both Jason and I are poor, but I think we can live
>> >> > together successfully with all the right supports, and if we
>> >> > can't find jobs, so what? We need family support to get by.
>> >> > But
>> >> > I really do dream of having my own private house, being able to
>> >> > manage my bills, being able to buy foods that are nutritious to
>> >> > my children and so on, and feeding the baby and having Jason
>> >> > there to have breakfast with in the mornings, and not his old
>> >> > mother. Not to say she's bad, but it's a dream I want to have.
>> >> > My mother should not have to manage my money. Yes, I'm not so
>> >> > good at money management, but I've learned a few lessons like
>> >> > how
>> >> > to go back and look at your payment history every time if you
>> >> > get
>> >> > suspicious about a charge. Like if the bills are on autopay,
>> >> > you
>> >> > have to look back and see if the weird corporate robbers, if I
>> >> > may use such a cold term, are stealing your money. I felt
>> >> > Comcast was robbing me of my precious money, and especially this
>> >> > month
>> >> > because of a trip, and next month because of a move I have to
>> >> > do,
>> >> > I can't afford a $70 internet bill. That's just too much unless
>> >> > you're really living in low income housing. I know a lot about
>> >> > disabled or low income housing. Boy, my boyfriend has a lot to
>> >> > learn, and he'll learn lots while I'm with him. Lots of times,
>> >> > blind people are sheltered by their parents, and of course, the
>> >> > parents I had were good parents, no doubt, but they had their
>> >> > flaws. Jason is lucky in some ways, but his parents said the
>> >> > same stuff that all sighted people say, "He has it made. We
>> >> > wait
>> >> > on him hand and foot ..." And so on. This creates a problem.
>> >> > Blind people need to not be waited on hand and foot. We can't
>> >> > necessarily be pandered to our every need like little Veruca
>> >> > Salt
>> >> > in charlie and the Chocolate Factory if I may reference a
>> >> > spoiled
>> >> > literary figure. We can't be pandered or revered as Helen
>> >> > Keller
>> >> > was by her family in her early years. Unlike Jason, Helen was
>> >> > deaf and in me and Jason's time, jobs are ample, and skills are
>> >> > ample thanks to technology. With Helen Keller's time, there
>> >> > were
>> >> > no jobs open, and marriage and motherhood were closed to Helen.
>> >> > I as a blind woman am thankful that marriage is open to
>> >> > me--hence
>> >> > the boyfriend I currently have--and relationships period. Jobs
>> >> > and technology have risen while I was growing up. It only seems
>> >> > like yesterday that I would not be sending this superbly long
>> >> > email. Thanks to emails and Facebook and Twitter, I feel much
>> >> > more connected to my friends and family, and especially to my
>> >> > dear cousin Sarah, but yet she never calls me. Ha ha. But
>> >> > thanks to cell phones, I can go anywhere and give everyone a
>> >> > text
>> >> > message. Imagine poor blind Beth texting! It only seems like
>> >> > yesterday that my parents didn't think I needed an accessible
>> >> > phone, but when I fought to get an accessible phone, and my
>> >> > ex-boyfriend taught me how to write letters on the phone, which
>> >> > is a skill I still fail at sometimes (lol), I have texted my
>> >> > friends and I can receive texts from people. I would hate to
>> >> > change my address, but I do that. I will be in Denver for a
>> >> > good
>> >> > while so I can do my college and keep the ducks in a row as I
>> >> > would hear my mother say. When I get my ducks in a row, I plan
>> >> > to move on to bigger and better things, and I want to get a job
>> >> > helping human trafficking victims. Denver has a strong victim
>> >> > advocate program, but that's only the Muslim Family Services
>> >> > that
>> >> > may have that. I'd heard that Atlanta has a big problem with
>> >> > human trafficking. Well, so do some areas of Florida, but if
>> >> > there's slavery and trafficking, I'll be there to stop it. I'd
>> >> > like to give former slaves and prostitutes a chance at life, but
>> >> > where will I go without a college degree in women's studies and
>> >> > a
>> >> > good background in such matters? I was never trafficked, but I
>> >> > have read countless literature, and have seen it firsthand or
>> >> > through others, what sorts of cruelty exist in the world.
>> >> > To keep the message on topic, I want to say that such a job
>> >> > helping human trafficking victims shouldn't require a social
>> >> > work
>> >> > degree, which the doc says I'm too messed up to do. I want to
>> >> > advise all of us to please take suspicious statements like,
>> >> > "She's pretending to be a certain ethnic group" or "She's not
>> >> > fit
>> >> > to do something because of mental deficiencies." What sort of
>> >> > nonsensical statements these are! DVR in Colorado doesn't seem
>> >> > to get it. They tell me I'm too messed up for college but they
>> >> > don't seem to understand that the importance of college is more
>> >> > to me than anybody. My brothers are taking college classes, and
>> >> > they will graduate, marry, and have families as expected. But
>> >> > what will I do? My parents will dictate who I will marry due to
>> >> > gender and blindness, they will tell me what talents I have
>> >> > because I'm so "malleable", as some people think blind people
>> >> > are, and then my teachers, doctors, psychologists, social
>> >> > workers, and case managers will either take my babies or let me
>> >> > keep them with sighted supervision, and so on. But going
>> >> > through
>> >> > school is not easy. Brandon, you said school is great, but you
>> >> > don't realize that as a blind person in a million living in a
>> >> > small town, nobody cared to dance with me at homecoming or prom.
>> >> > That's the price I paid for being blind. Nobody cared to offer
>> >> > me flowers on a date. I didn't have the normal teenager things
>> >> > that every teenage girl dreams about. If I have a daughter, I
>> >> > want to dress her up for prom and her wedding day with such
>> >> > pride
>> >> > a mother would share with her spouse and daughter alike. My
>> >> > mother never got that opportunity with me. She would help me
>> >> > into my chorus dresses, but those were mere obligations to the
>> >> > school. My mom believed that prom was for dates only, and
>> >> > summer
>> >> > jobs? Out of the question. I can't get a good experience if I
>> >> > am not allowed to work. Titusville is a small town in Florida,
>> >> > and I and another man were the only blind people in it. I being
>> >> > the only and youngest blind woman in the town couldn't be
>> >> > offered
>> >> > a job. The only jobs offered were at the hospital, where
>> >> > medical
>> >> > experience was required, and the Space Center, where engineering
>> >> > degrees were preferred. My dad can attest to the people he's
>> >> > interviewed for jobs, and unfortunately, there's not enough
>> >> > blind
>> >> > computer engineers, except those in the underground geek
>> >> > industry
>> >> > as I like to call it, to go around. We also need to learn to
>> >> > communicate with others who are sighted, speak their language so
>> >> > to speak.
>> >> > Ok, my rant is over.
>> >> > Beth
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 23:57:32 -0700
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> > I'm sure many people who have talked to me before know what I'm
>> >> > going to
>> >> > say...
>> >> > It's the educational system that many of these problems come
>> >> > down
>> >> > to. We
>> >> > have teachers coming out of school who are not inspired to
>> >> > create
>> >> > a new
>> >> > style of teaching. We have teachers who are never taught about
>> >> > disabled
>> >> > students. We have blind students who are never taught how to ask
>> >> > for
>> >> > accommodations. We have parents who think being blind is bad!
>> >> > Honestly, if I could have redone my education as a sighted
>> >> > person, I would
>> >> > not have done it. Being blind is such an advantage in the United
>> >> > States when
>> >> > going through school. You get extra time on everything, you get
>> >> > leniency on
>> >> > all your assignments if you can't finish them on time, you get
>> >> > free
>> >> > schooling, you get paid to go through school by SSI, you have so
>> >> > many
>> >> > scholarships you can apply for, you can use the law to fight for
>> >> > accessibility with little retribution, you become great friends
>> >> > with your
>> >> > teachers just because you get to talk to them all the time, you
>> >> > are by
>> >> > nature a very active participant in your class, you are able to
>> >> > read your
>> >> > books 1000 times faster than all of the other students combined,
>> >> > you're able
>> >> > to get tutoring for free, you don't have to feel ashamed for
>> >> > taking
>> >> > advantage of any of the above benefits because you're disabled
>> >> > and that's
>> >> > what you're expected to do!
>> >> > Also, the expectation of your teachers is rather low and when
>> >> > you
>> >> > get 100%
>> >> > on all their hardest tests they get all embarrassed, people
>> >> > think
>> >> > it's
>> >> > amazing that you're getting strait As when it's nothing,
>> >> > (Stereotypically)
>> >> > blind people are very unsocial so they have lots of extra time
>> >> > to
>> >> > do school
>> >> > work, you're able to actually edit your teacher's handouts and
>> >> > instructions
>> >> > because Jaws doesn't miss skipped letters, if you have a problem
>> >> > with your
>> >> > online test you can blame it on your screen reader crashing the
>> >> > web browser,
>> >> > state colleges gobble you up if you have ever taken an honors
>> >> > class at a
>> >> > community college and you have good grades and you've written
>> >> > one
>> >> > of those
>> >> > inspiring essays, when you write inspiring essays you can get
>> >> > the
>> >> > super
>> >> > arrogant feeling for a moment and say "That's me in the essay!",
>> >> > you're able
>> >> > to participate in all kinds of extra activities through agencies
>> >> > like Global
>> >> > explorers or the Light House, you can participate in summer job
>> >> > programs
>> >> > like YES1 and YES2 in Washington State, when you go to community
>> >> > college or
>> >> > state college you're given a guide through the school because
>> >> > you
>> >> > need a
>> >> > mobility lesson and you have the disability resource person.
>> >> > I should probably stop, but you get the idea...
>> >> > It's probably because I was homeschooled for the first few years
>> >> > of my life
>> >> > and did all kinds of super awesome things with my overly amazing
>> >> > parents and
>> >> > didn't enter public school till 5th grade that I have this view
>> >> > of school,
>> >> > but I understood that I could learn in public school and it was
>> >> > just that
>> >> > either the teacher wasn't teaching me or that I wasn't equipped
>> >> > with the
>> >> > skills or technology that was keeping me from learning.
>> >> > There are many other factors in learning, like Gardiner's
>> >> > multiple theory
>> >> > of intelligences that play a factor in if one learns in school,
>> >> > but thank
>> >> > goodness I was able to learn that anyone can learn from anyone,
>> >> > they just
>> >> > need to know how they learn and learn that way!
>> >> > I can give examples, but this email is already super long, so
>> >> > I'll get off
>> >> > education.
>> >> > My point is that most blind people aren?셳 taught about all
>> >> > the
>> >> > above things.
>> >> > I was super lucky because my parents let me run my IEP meetings
>> >> > and my mom
>> >> > became a TVI half way through my schooling, but every blind
>> >> > person needs to
>> >> > know that school can be amazing! It is worth spending 8-12 years
>> >> > of your
>> >> > life there getting your music degree or dentist degree.
>> >> >
>> >> > Another factor is that disabled people are fit into even a
>> >> > tighter mold of
>> >> > what they are to be when disabled people are the most unique of
>> >> > anyone.
>> >> > Blind people do not belong in special ed classes because they
>> >> > don't need
>> >> > special ed. Special ed teachers are people who teach extreme
>> >> > cases of
>> >> > autistic or other mentally disabled people. If a blind person is
>> >> > put into
>> >> > that environment and they don't need it, they will go insane!
>> >> > It's like if
>> >> > Stephen Hawking would have been born totally disabled and people
>> >> > stuck him
>> >> > into special ed just because he can't talk!
>> >> > Where would cosmology be?
>> >> > Sadly it's those who break out of the mold and assimilate their
>> >> > own way into
>> >> > sighted culture in order to evade the label of mentally disabled
>> >> > that are
>> >> > fighting for these rights.
>> >> >
>> >> > I keep on telling people that if someone is considered weird
>> >> > it's
>> >> > not them
>> >> > that's weird, it's you who's weird for thinking that they're
>> >> > weird. It's
>> >> > like you thinking the person in front of you is going through
>> >> > time the same
>> >> > way you are!
>> >> >
>> >> > Sadly the world is not reasonable, so we have to shuck reason
>> >> > and
>> >> > go for
>> >> > emotion. That's why we write all the super inspiring essays and
>> >> > that's why
>> >> > we have to assimilate into the sighted world.
>> >> > Those who end up working in low under minimum wage jobs have
>> >> > probably not
>> >> > learned how to assimilate enough to pass off as "normal" in the
>> >> > sighted
>> >> > community, so that's probably why they can't get the entry level
>> >> > jobs.
>> >> >
>> >> > Before someone gives the line about not needing to be anything
>> >> > other than
>> >> > blind because we are blind, let me just say that most of this
>> >> > world likes to
>> >> > think they are sighted and normal. Most people like to walk with
>> >> > the crowd.
>> >> > Those who never learn to walk with the crowd are considered
>> >> > weird, those who
>> >> > learn how to walk with the crowd then figure out how to rise
>> >> > above it are
>> >> > considered great.
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> > Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Arielle Silverman
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:27 PM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi Brandon,
>> >> > These are all good points. I like your statement about blind
>> >> > people
>> >> > who are "nurtured to act like they are mentally disabled" as I
>> >> > have
>> >> > met a few people who unfortunately seem to fit that description.
>> >> > The problem is that there is no objective test to determine what
>> >> > a
>> >> > person is or is not capable of doing. Even so-called objective
>> >> > tests
>> >> > like IQ tests are incredibly biased and don't account for
>> >> > environmental factors that artificially limit people's abilities
>> >> > or
>> >> > knowledge, like what is expected of them by parents and
>> >> > teachers,
>> >> > or
>> >> > what skills they are or are not taught. There is research
>> >> > showing
>> >> > that
>> >> > when people are expected to behave or perform in a certain way,
>> >> > they
>> >> > tend to fulfill that expectation (this is called a
>> >> > "self-fulfilling
>> >> > prophesy; if you're interested in the research, look up
>> >> > "Pygmalian
>> >> > effect"). So when teachers are randomly told that some kids are
>> >> > smarter than others, they tend to treat those "smart" kids
>> >> > differently
>> >> > without even realizing it and eventually the "smart" kids end up
>> >> > performing better than the other kids. The reverse pattern too
>> >> > often
>> >> > happens with disabilities. People have so many assumptions about
>> >> > how
>> >> > disabilities limit potential, and people in authority can act in
>> >> > ways
>> >> > that make those assumptions come true.
>> >> > I also agree that people with disabilities would be much more
>> >> > productive in sheltered jobs if they did work that was
>> >> > intrinsically
>> >> > interesting to them and if the work was in a field they were
>> >> > actually
>> >> > good at. It is common knowledge that people of all ages and
>> >> > mental
>> >> > abilities will do a better job at any task if they find the task
>> >> > enjoyable and motivating. Too often, sheltered jobs are simply
>> >> > too
>> >> > boring to really engage people. Also, people with disabilities
>> >> > have
>> >> > their own talents that are rarely utilized in sheltered jobs. I
>> >> > have
>> >> > figured out that if I were forced to do a sheltered workshop
>> >> > job,
>> >> > I
>> >> > would probably be the one losing them money if they paid me at
>> >> > minimum
>> >> > wage, because I have never been good at making stuff with my
>> >> > hands or
>> >> > using machines. Not only would I be bored to tears, but I just
>> >> > wouldn't be good at it. I am much better at writing and thinking
>> >> > and
>> >> > doing math, so I hope that society will let me use those skills
>> >> > instead of forcing me to do work I'm not skilled at.
>> >> > Regarding your comment about unemployment among the blind, it is
>> >> > true
>> >> > that many fields are accessible to the blind these days, yet the
>> >> > unemployment rate is still staggering. There are many reasons
>> >> > for
>> >> > unemployment among the blind. I think one reason is that
>> >> > employers
>> >> > want to hire applicants with relevant experience, and in many
>> >> > fields,
>> >> > the entry-level position that people get at first to gain
>> >> > experience
>> >> > isn't accessible to the blind. This might not be true with
>> >> > programming, but in some fields it is really hard to get your
>> >> > foot in
>> >> > the door even if it's easier to work at higher levels. For
>> >> > example,
>> >> > before becoming a teacher, you need to do student teaching,
>> >> > which
>> >> > means you are working under someone else who might not use
>> >> > accessible
>> >> > materials or who will doubt your ability to do the job. Without
>> >> > experience, it's harder to allay people's initial discriminatory
>> >> > doubts and fears about hiring a blind person. Also, even within
>> >> > an
>> >> > accessible field, individual employers might use materials that
>> >> > aren't
>> >> > accessible to the blind. So even though programming is very
>> >> > accessible, if some employers require you to use languages or
>> >> > scripts
>> >> > that aren't accessible, this will limit job options.
>> >> > Arielle
>> >> >
>> >> > On 6/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> > It's a tricky situation. We can't really say what it's like
>> >> > being mentally
>> >> > disabled and it's hard to say what mentally disabled can or can
>> >> > not do. We
>> >> > also can't tell if the blind who are nurtured to act like
>> >> > mentally
>> >> > disabled
>> >> > people really are mentally disabled.
>> >> > *That's a mouthful!*
>> >> > I am of the opinion that mentally disabled people are way under
>> >> > employed
>> >> > and
>> >> > jobs like Goodwill are completely the wrong job for many of
>> >> > them. But I'm
>> >> > not a professional and I can only say from personal experience
>> >> > that many
>> >> > mentally disabled people can do what they want quite well and
>> >> > often it's
>> >> > because they are babied and misunderstood that they are
>> >> > pressured into
>> >> > doing jobs they aren?셳 good at.
>> >> >
>> >> > I do wonder the need of blind adults to be working at good will
>> >> > in the
>> >> > first
>> >> > place though when it's not that hard learning programming and
>> >> > it's pretty
>> >> > easy to get reeducated for free in the United States as a blind
>> >> > person. If
>> >> > your career isn't working out, I don't see why one wouldn't just
>> >> > take a
>> >> > class at their community college and change their job. I believe
>> >> > SSI is
>> >> > for
>> >> > college students and those fresh out of college, or for a back
>> >> > up when
>> >> > work
>> >> > isn't coming. I am still a student, but I know I have for sure
>> >> > jobs if I
>> >> > go
>> >> > into programming or being a TVI. So other than the moral
>> >> > issues, I'm not
>> >> > sure why capable blind people are working at goodwill.
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> > Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Arielle Silverman
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 8:32 PM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi all,
>> >> > I don't shop at Goodwill either, but I was regularly donating
>> >> > items
>> >> > like used clothes to Goodwill, and my parents do as well. A
>> >> > customer
>> >> > boycott might not matter much but a donor boycott would probably
>> >> > hurt
>> >> > them considerably. I have to say I found Justin's arguments very
>> >> > persuasive. I just hope that if we boycott all branches
>> >> > nationally, we
>> >> > make it very clear that what we want is a change to national
>> >> > policy.
>> >> > Interestingly, I used to rent an apartment from a woman (I'll
>> >> > call her
>> >> > S) whose full-time job was to be a live-in caretaker for a woman
>> >> > with
>> >> > Down's syndrome and significant mental retardation (I'll call
>> >> > her C).
>> >> > Since I rented the apartment right below theirs, I got to know
>> >> > both S
>> >> > and C quite well and learned a bit about C's situation.
>> >> > Apparently C
>> >> > is employed by a program for people with intellectual
>> >> > disabilities
>> >> > similar to Goodwill's but it wasn't Goodwill itself. I think S.
>> >> > told
>> >> > me that C. was paid around $1 per hour for doing an extremely
>> >> > menial
>> >> > job although I don't remember what that job was exactly.
>> >> > However, I
>> >> > don't think C. had any living expenses at all because she lived
>> >> > rent-free with S. She may have been helping pay for groceries.
>> >> > The
>> >> > program she was in was very custodial and I'm not sure she even
>> >> > had
>> >> > independent access to the money she earned at her job.
>> >> > I don't think I can really judge whether people with
>> >> > disabilities like
>> >> > C.'s are capable of living without custodial care or spending
>> >> > their
>> >> > own money, any more than a deaf person should be able to judge
>> >> > how
>> >> > independent blind people can be. I do suspect that people like
>> >> > C.
>> >> > would achieve more if they were held to higher expectations, and
>> >> > higher expectations should come with higher wages and more
>> >> > freedom.
>> >> > I definitely believe that anyone who lives independently should
>> >> > be
>> >> > paid at least the minimum wage, and I think it is clear that
>> >> > blindness
>> >> > by itself doesn't prevent anyone from living independently
>> >> >
>> >>
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