[nabs-l] Grad School

Deb Mendelsohn deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com
Sun Jun 10 17:43:07 UTC 2012


Information resources/library science.
MIRLS

Deb Cell (520) 225-8244
On Jun 10, 2012 10:41 AM, "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
wrote:

> Wow!
> What's your major?
> I'm not going to grad school, but I'm getting my degree in Behavioral
> Health, in May of 2013.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 6/10/12, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > No sorry. UA UNIVERSITY OF AZ.
> >
> > Deb Cell (520) 225-8244
> > On Jun 10, 2012 10:31 AM, "Joshua Lester" <
> jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> UA, as in Arkansas?
> >> I'll be in Dallas!
> >> Thanks, Joshua
> >>
> >> On 6/10/12, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > R there any grad students in NAB?
> >> > I'm attending UA in Spring 4 MLS.  R any of u going 2 Dallas?
> >> > Deb
> >> >
> >> > Deb Cell (520) 225-8244
> >> > On Jun 10, 2012 10:17 AM, "Joshua Lester" <
> >> jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Wow!
> >> >> You'll be moving to Mr Lewis's headquarters.
> >> >> Speaking of which, I'm about to start a new thread about that!
> >> >> Blessings, Joshua
> >> >>
> >> >> On 6/10/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > My new boyfriend is from Georgia, so yeah, I have a good idea of
> >> >> > whuaft kind of foods he likes, sort of. :)
> >> >> > Beth
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> >> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> > Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:49:37 -0500
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Beth, the blind cooks list can provide you with the info you
> >> >> > need, to
> >> >> > cook Southern food.
> >> >> > Where is your new boyfriend from?
> >> >> > Thanks, Joshua
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 6/10/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >  First off, my boyfriend can't go to an independent living center
> >> >> >  out of state.  It took that to get me to learn daily living
> >> >> >  skills.  I live in my own, but I hate to live for two people.
> >> >> >  You've got great points, Brandon.  My boyfriend will have to do
> >> >> >  daily living trainning, maybe I can find a daily living skills
> >> >> >  teacher in his state that can help.  I tried learning from a
> >> >> >  daily living skills teacher, but the teachers I've worked with
> >> >> >  never really told my parents they had to be patient.  HE's lucky
> >> >> >  his girlfriend is blind and can cook just as good as anyone.
> >> >> >  Btw, I made a casserole one day, and it's great that I did.  If
> >> >> > I
> >> >> >  have to move out with my boyffriend, I'll have to learn and
> >> >> > teach
> >> >> >  myself how to make deviled eggs and southern fried chicken, some
> >> >> >  of his favorites.  But I'll be that patient with him and help
> >> >> > him
> >> >> >  get on his feet.  I'll probably have to learn something, but I
> >> >> >  think living in the bay area won't be possible.  I have to live
> >> >> >  where he is so that his heart doesn't get damaged or whuaftever.
> >> >> >  I think we're better than the people at Goodwill, and .. oh
> >> >> >  yeah, hopefully, we get good furniture from a furniture resale
> >> >> >  store unlike Goodwill.
> >> >> >  Beth
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >  From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >> >> >  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >> >> >  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> >  Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 08:53:30 -0700
> >> >> >  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Hello Beth,
> >> >> >  let me first say that judging by your emails you definitely have
> >> >> >  enough
> >> >> >  reasoning and writing ability to get what ever degree you wish.
> >> >> >  If you've
> >> >> >  read literature on human trafficking you have seen the worst.
> >> >> >  They shelter
> >> >> >  you in schools because they don't want to get sued. That doctor
> >> >> >  definitely
> >> >> >  has no idea what he's talking about. If I were you, I'd go to
> >> >> >  school and get
> >> >> >  that counseling degree, then invite that doctor to my
> >> >> > graduation!
> >> >> >  If money
> >> >> >  is an issue, DOR and the state often have programs that can
> >> >> > fully
> >> >> >  cover the
> >> >> >  cost of school, minus housing and food.
> >> >> >  Don't worry, you sound lots better informed than many people
> >> >> > that
> >> >> >  I know
> >> >> >  about personal finance. I was looking at the Hadley Business
> >> >> >  section and I
> >> >> >  was really wondering why they didn't have personal finance and
> >> >> >  investing. I
> >> >> >  don't know anyone other than brokers who have the education to
> >> >> >  really make
> >> >> >  something of their money. Sadly though, personal finance is one
> >> >> >  of those
> >> >> >  things that are expected one learns on their own. Like speaking
> >> >> >  and
> >> >> >  socializing, it should just be a given that everyone knows about
> >> >> >  how to find
> >> >> >  banks with high interest rates and low fees, everyone knows how
> >> >> >  to budget
> >> >> >  effectively, everyone knows how to find the best deals on food
> >> >> >  and clothing,
> >> >> >  and no one needs any help on running a family in school.
> >> >> >  My communication teacher in school said that 99% of all the
> >> >> >  students that
> >> >> >  come to her class have never had a communication class in their
> >> >> >  life, yet
> >> >> >  100% of her students have had to communicate.
> >> >> >  We are both a little baffled at this logic, but that's how life
> >> >> >  is I
> >> >> >  guess...?
> >> >> >  Personally I've found that those who have the most power over
> >> >> >  people in this
> >> >> >  world are those with money and those with exceptional
> >> >> >  communication skills.
> >> >> >  I would recommend everyone move to the Bay area here in CA and
> >> >> > go
> >> >> >  to
> >> >> >  Foothill College. The teachers there are exceptional and the
> >> >> >  disability
> >> >> >  center is the best in the west. They also give oober
> >> >> > scholarships
> >> >> >  to those
> >> >> >  students who come off as serious students *Points at his 9 grand
> >> >> >  in
> >> >> >  scholarships*.
> >> >> >  Also, you don't need DOR to pay for any part of school, as one
> >> >> >  can get
> >> >> >  renewable scholarships at a community college to pay for every
> >> >> >  part of
> >> >> >  school, except for $47 by just being on SSI.
> >> >> >  Beth, Here in the bay area we have a giant human trafficking
> >> >> >  problem as we
> >> >> >  are one of the major connection points for overseas travel. It's
> >> >> >  on the
> >> >> >  radio lots how they've caught slavers here and there, but
> >> >> > besides
> >> >> >  that, the
> >> >> >  Bay Area is so much for women's studies, I've not seen any
> >> >> >  general college
> >> >> >  that doesn't offer a degree in women's studies.
> >> >> >  If I were anyone, I would totally move here to SF or go to NY,
> >> >> >  because not
> >> >> >  only is the blindness support so great, but public
> >> >> > transportation
> >> >> >  is the
> >> >> >  best in the nation for both those places.
> >> >> >  But enough on me pushing SF...!
> >> >> >  Beth, your boyfriend sounds like he could do with a liberal dose
> >> >> >  of Daily
> >> >> >  living skills. Here where I live, there is a center called the
> >> >> >  "Vista
> >> >> >  Center" and DOR contracts out teachers to help you become
> >> >> >  independent. I
> >> >> >  love those teachers, because with their help, I was able to move
> >> >> >  out on my
> >> >> >  own when I was 18.
> >> >> >  I believe the Light House also has programs like this, and
> >> >> > Justin
> >> >> >  was saying
> >> >> >  something about attending a program that also teaches living
> >> >> >  skills. But my
> >> >> >  teacher says she encounters two types of people. There are those
> >> >> >  who go
> >> >> >  above and beyond what they were asked and actually do what they
> >> >> >  were taught
> >> >> >  on their own, then there are those who do the minimum possible.
> >> >> >  They expect
> >> >> >  everything to be spoon fed to them. The first group are the ones
> >> >> >  who
> >> >> >  generally make it in the world as successful individuals. Beth,
> >> >> >  if I were
> >> >> >  you, I'd have a down to earth talk with your Boyfriend, letting
> >> >> >  him know
> >> >> >  that as it stands people don't believe in his ability to take
> >> >> >  care of
> >> >> >  himself. He may think that he could take care of himself, but
> >> >> > you
> >> >> >  can let
> >> >> >  him know that he will have to prove it first. If he agrees, than
> >> >> >  it's time
> >> >> >  to look for a daily living skills teacher. If not, he may want
> >> >> > to
> >> >> >  be sent to
> >> >> >  one of the independent living facilities, so he can see first
> >> >> >  hand why he
> >> >> >  must learn living skills in order to be free.
> >> >> >  I don't believe marriage should be really talked about until
> >> >> >  after your
> >> >> >  Boyfriend proves his stuff. Because Beth, you've got your life
> >> >> > to
> >> >> >  live and
> >> >> >  you should not be forced to live for two people which you would
> >> >> >  be doing if
> >> >> >  you married and moved out with your boyfriend as things are now.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  I know what you mean about not going to prom. I never went to
> >> >> >  prom with a
> >> >> >  girl when I was in High school. I actually didn't get a
> >> >> >  girlfriend till my
> >> >> >  last year of High School and I broke up with her 5 months later.
> >> >> >  I didn't
> >> >> >  have another till a little over a year after that. It was with
> >> >> >  that second
> >> >> >  girlfriend that I went to prom. Frankly, school dances are the
> >> >> >  worst things
> >> >> >  since the invention of eyes.
> >> >> >  If you like loud music beating so loud that you can't hear
> >> >> >  yourself think,
> >> >> >  let alone hear your date talking, and if you like being squeezed
> >> >> >  together on
> >> >> >  all sides by grinding individuals, and if you're being shown how
> >> >> >  to dance by
> >> >> >  your partner, the only word I can label this, is hell.
> >> >> >  The romantic things before and after the dance are great, but
> >> >> > the
> >> >> >  dance
> >> >> >  itself is terrible. So let me assure you that except for the
> >> >> >  romantic part,
> >> >> >  you did not miss much at the prom. They didn't even play the
> >> >> > Blue
> >> >> >  Danube at
> >> >> >  the prom I went to! I thought that was required in order to have
> >> >> >  a dance to
> >> >> >  call themselves a dance?
> >> >> >  anyways, in my opinion the education is much more important when
> >> >> >  you're
> >> >> >  going through school than the social aspects. In college though,
> >> >> >  guys become
> >> >> >  much smarter and women become way more emotionally sound, just
> >> >> >  because they
> >> >> >  have lived and learned much more through their life.
> >> >> >  Most of the girls I've thought about dating have not been mature
> >> >> >  enough in
> >> >> >  some aspect of their life. My last girlfriend was too immature
> >> >> >  when it came
> >> >> >  to being focused and I learned the hard way that you should
> >> >> > never
> >> >> >  expect
> >> >> >  people to change. So part of my problem about having a small
> >> >> >  social life is
> >> >> >  that even now, I find that the women I'm attracted to are still
> >> >> >  much to
> >> >> >  immature in some way for any kind of relationship to work.
> >> >> >  But for high school, I was not socially mature and even now I'm
> >> >> >  not socially
> >> >> >  mature enough to really fit in the sighted world. This is the
> >> >> >  biggest
> >> >> >  problem I've found, blind people are not able to pass themselves
> >> >> >  off as good
> >> >> >  relationship material in the sighted world. If the world was
> >> >> > only
> >> >> >  blind this
> >> >> >  would be different, but because we live in a sight run culture,
> >> >> >  being able
> >> >> >  to be socially mature to those who are sighted is crucial if one
> >> >> >  wants to
> >> >> >  make it in anything other than strictly working in something
> >> >> > like
> >> >> >  the NFB or
> >> >> >  Goodwill.
> >> >> >  We have to work extra hard at understanding what sighted people
> >> >> >  think and
> >> >> >  how sighted people do things in order to live as the sighted
> >> >> >  people. Once
> >> >> >  we're able to pass ourselves off enough so no one believes we're
> >> >> >  blind, we
> >> >> >  should then and only then, begin to emphasize the fact that we
> >> >> >  are blind.
> >> >> >  Because if we establish to people that we're blind first, they
> >> >> >  will look no
> >> >> >  farther than our disability. In sighted human evolution, being
> >> >> >  disabled is
> >> >> >  repulsive and we've got to fight against nature in order to do
> >> >> >  anything in
> >> >> >  the sighted world. Once one is able to show that they are a
> >> >> >  sighted person
> >> >> >  first, then they can show they are blind and at that point, one
> >> >> >  is able to
> >> >> >  make blindness something to be desired and interesting, not
> >> >> >  repulsive and
> >> >> >  weird.
> >> >> >  Thank you,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Brandon Keith Biggs
> >> >> >  -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >  From: Beth
> >> >> >  Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:01 AM
> >> >> >  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >> >  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Great points, Brandon.  As someone who is both blind and
> >> >> > mentally
> >> >> >  ill, I understand how it feels to be considered weird.  I've
> >> >> > been
> >> >> >  called a creep, told by some girl to my boyfriend's face that he
> >> >> >  could do better due to my disorder, and then threatened with all
> >> >> >  kinds of emotional attack and abuse.  Due to blindness, I was
> >> >> >  told by the docs I'd be a vegetable.  Huh?  My dad says I'm a
> >> >> >  genius.  I don't know, but my last IQ check said I was a 133,
> >> >> >  superior without all the visual battery of tests.  But then
> >> >> >  again, IQ isn't everything.  I live in Denver, alone, with no
> >> >> >  roommate to pander to my every need.  I probably should say that
> >> >> >  with the right support and good friends around me, I could
> >> >> >  thrive.  I could become a "normal" woman, work a "normal" job,
> >> >> >  and get "normal" wages.  I could take care of children, my own
> >> >> >  children, and raise them to be good people, productive citizens
> >> >> >  of the United States of America, and I'd look forward to good
> >> >> >  days and bad days along the way.  My old cane teacher is a
> >> >> >  fountain of wisdom when it comes to life's miseries, and the
> >> >> >  rapids of life don't get any higher than what they are.  I could
> >> >> >  get deeper and say that God doesn't put us in a river with
> >> >> > rapids
> >> >> >  that could not be handled by the rider.  One of the biggest
> >> >> >  "whitewater rapids" so to speak is the employment and wages
> >> >> >  thing.  Brandon and Arielle, you guys make a good point in that
> >> >> >  blind people are trained to act like mentally disabled people.
> >> >> >  My boyfriend doesn't know money.  I wonder if I can possibly
> >> >> >  teach him the basics of money management and budgeting.  I
> >> >> >  struggle with it myself because SSI is too little to live off
> >> >> > of,
> >> >> >  and I was given a plane ticket, but not the money for baggage
> >> >> >  fees and cab fare to get to and from the airport.  So I'm stuck
> >> >> >  paying for that.  My boyfriend also doesn't know how to keep
> >> >> >  track of his own wages, and if he becomes a big-time producer
> >> >> > for
> >> >> >  all sorts of rappers who would run to him, I don't know how he's
> >> >> >  going to run the household and help me pay my bills too.  What
> >> >> > if
> >> >> >  I'm incapacitated for real this time?  I mean, like, Terry
> >> >> >  Shiavo?  How's Jason, who I may designate as a healthcare
> >> >> >  surrogate, going to make that decision?  My hope is that he
> >> >> > won't
> >> >> >  have to do that, but if that happens, I need someone that I feel
> >> >> >  can be trusted to make the decisions about my bills and stuff.
> >> >> > I
> >> >> >  was asked by my boyfriend's mom of all people to help her with
> >> >> >  him a bit.  Just to think of Jason in the situation he's in just
> >> >> >  makes me so sick.  I want him to manage his own wages, cook me a
> >> >> >  meal if I get sick, and fry me some chicken or grill a burger on
> >> >> >  Memorial Day.  He has the potential to do those things, and the
> >> >> >  weird part is that his parents are open to us having a
> >> >> >  relationship.  Most disabled people's parents, including but not
> >> >> >  limited to my own, are not as open about relations with poorer
> >> >> >  people.  Both Jason and I are poor, but I think we can live
> >> >> >  together successfully with all the right supports, and if we
> >> >> >  can't find jobs, so what?  We need family support to get by.
> >> >> > But
> >> >> >  I really do dream of having my own private house, being able to
> >> >> >  manage my bills, being able to buy foods that are nutritious to
> >> >> >  my children and so on, and feeding the baby and having Jason
> >> >> >  there to have breakfast with in the mornings, and not his old
> >> >> >  mother.  Not to say she's bad, but it's a dream I want to have.
> >> >> >  My mother should not have to manage my money.  Yes, I'm not so
> >> >> >  good at money management, but I've learned a few lessons like
> >> >> > how
> >> >> >  to go back and look at your payment history every time if you
> >> >> > get
> >> >> >  suspicious about a charge.  Like if the bills are on autopay,
> >> >> > you
> >> >> >  have to look back and see if the weird corporate robbers, if I
> >> >> >  may use such a cold term, are stealing your money.  I felt
> >> >> >  Comcast was robbing me of my precious money, and especially this
> >> >> >  month
> >> >> >  because of a trip, and next month because of a move I have to
> >> >> > do,
> >> >> >  I can't afford a $70 internet bill.  That's just too much unless
> >> >> >  you're really living in low income housing.  I know a lot about
> >> >> >  disabled or low income housing.  Boy, my boyfriend has a lot to
> >> >> >  learn, and he'll learn lots while I'm with him.  Lots of times,
> >> >> >  blind people are sheltered by their parents, and of course, the
> >> >> >  parents I had were good parents, no doubt, but they had their
> >> >> >  flaws.  Jason is lucky in some ways, but his parents said the
> >> >> >  same stuff that all sighted people say, "He has it made.  We
> >> >> > wait
> >> >> >  on him hand and foot ..."  And so on.  This creates a problem.
> >> >> >  Blind people need to not be waited on hand and foot.  We can't
> >> >> >  necessarily be pandered to our every need like little Veruca
> >> >> > Salt
> >> >> >  in charlie and the Chocolate Factory if I may reference a
> >> >> > spoiled
> >> >> >  literary figure.  We can't be pandered or revered as Helen
> >> >> > Keller
> >> >> >  was by her family in her early years.  Unlike Jason, Helen was
> >> >> >  deaf and in me and Jason's time, jobs are ample, and skills are
> >> >> >  ample thanks to technology.  With Helen Keller's time, there
> >> >> > were
> >> >> >  no jobs open, and marriage and motherhood were closed to Helen.
> >> >> >  I as a blind woman am thankful that marriage is open to
> >> >> > me--hence
> >> >> >  the boyfriend I currently have--and relationships period.  Jobs
> >> >> >  and technology have risen while I was growing up.  It only seems
> >> >> >  like yesterday that I would not be sending this superbly long
> >> >> >  email.  Thanks to emails and Facebook and Twitter, I feel much
> >> >> >  more connected to my friends and family, and especially to my
> >> >> >  dear cousin Sarah, but yet she never calls me.  Ha ha.  But
> >> >> >  thanks to cell phones, I can go anywhere and give everyone a
> >> >> > text
> >> >> >  message.  Imagine poor blind Beth texting!  It only seems like
> >> >> >  yesterday that my parents didn't think I needed an accessible
> >> >> >  phone, but when I fought to get an accessible phone, and my
> >> >> >  ex-boyfriend taught me how to write letters on the phone, which
> >> >> >  is a skill I still fail at sometimes (lol), I have texted my
> >> >> >  friends and I can receive texts from people.  I would hate to
> >> >> >  change my address, but I do that.  I will be in Denver for a
> >> >> > good
> >> >> >  while so I can do my college and keep the ducks in a row as I
> >> >> >  would hear my mother say.  When I get my ducks in a row, I plan
> >> >> >  to move on to bigger and better things, and I want to get a job
> >> >> >  helping human trafficking victims.  Denver has a strong victim
> >> >> >  advocate program, but that's only the Muslim Family Services
> >> >> > that
> >> >> >  may have that.  I'd heard that Atlanta has a big problem with
> >> >> >  human trafficking.  Well, so do some areas of Florida, but if
> >> >> >  there's slavery and trafficking, I'll be there to stop it.  I'd
> >> >> >  like to give former slaves and prostitutes a chance at life, but
> >> >> >  where will I go without a college degree in women's studies and
> >> >> > a
> >> >> >  good background in such matters?  I was never trafficked, but I
> >> >> >  have read countless literature, and have seen it firsthand or
> >> >> >  through others, what sorts of cruelty exist in the world.
> >> >> >  To keep the message on topic, I want to say that such a job
> >> >> >  helping human trafficking victims shouldn't require a social
> >> >> > work
> >> >> >  degree, which the doc says I'm too messed up to do.  I want to
> >> >> >  advise all of us to please take suspicious statements like,
> >> >> >  "She's pretending to be a certain ethnic group" or "She's not
> >> >> > fit
> >> >> >  to do something because of mental deficiencies."  What sort of
> >> >> >  nonsensical statements these are!  DVR in Colorado doesn't seem
> >> >> >  to get it.  They tell me I'm too messed up for college but they
> >> >> >  don't seem to understand that the importance of college is more
> >> >> >  to me than anybody.  My brothers are taking college classes, and
> >> >> >  they will graduate, marry, and have families as expected.  But
> >> >> >  what will I do?  My parents will dictate who I will marry due to
> >> >> >  gender and blindness, they will tell me what talents I have
> >> >> >  because I'm so "malleable", as some people think blind people
> >> >> >  are, and then my teachers, doctors, psychologists, social
> >> >> >  workers, and case managers will either take my babies or let me
> >> >> >  keep them with sighted supervision, and so on.  But going
> >> >> > through
> >> >> >  school is not easy.  Brandon, you said school is great, but you
> >> >> >  don't realize that as a blind person in a million living in a
> >> >> >  small town, nobody cared to dance with me at homecoming or prom.
> >> >> >  That's the price I paid for being blind.  Nobody cared to offer
> >> >> >  me flowers on a date.  I didn't have the normal teenager things
> >> >> >  that every teenage girl dreams about.  If I have a daughter, I
> >> >> >  want to dress her up for prom and her wedding day with such
> >> >> > pride
> >> >> >  a mother would share with her spouse and daughter alike.  My
> >> >> >  mother never got that opportunity with me.  She would help me
> >> >> >  into my chorus dresses, but those were mere obligations to the
> >> >> >  school.  My mom believed that prom was for dates only, and
> >> >> > summer
> >> >> >  jobs?  Out of the question.  I can't get a good experience if I
> >> >> >  am not allowed to work.  Titusville is a small town in Florida,
> >> >> >  and I and another man were the only blind people in it.  I being
> >> >> >  the only and youngest blind woman in the town couldn't be
> >> >> > offered
> >> >> >  a job.  The only jobs offered were at the hospital, where
> >> >> > medical
> >> >> >  experience was required, and the Space Center, where engineering
> >> >> >  degrees were preferred.  My dad can attest to the people he's
> >> >> >  interviewed for jobs, and unfortunately, there's not enough
> >> >> > blind
> >> >> >  computer engineers, except those in the underground geek
> >> >> > industry
> >> >> >  as I like to call it, to go around.  We also need to learn to
> >> >> >  communicate with others who are sighted, speak their language so
> >> >> >  to speak.
> >> >> >  Ok, my rant is over.
> >> >> >  Beth
> >> >> >  ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >  From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >> >> >  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >> >> >  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> >  Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 23:57:32 -0700
> >> >> >  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Hello,
> >> >> >  I'm sure many people who have talked to me before know what I'm
> >> >> >  going to
> >> >> >  say...
> >> >> >  It's the educational system that many of these problems come
> >> >> > down
> >> >> >  to. We
> >> >> >  have teachers coming out of school who are not inspired to
> >> >> > create
> >> >> >  a new
> >> >> >  style of teaching. We have teachers who are never taught about
> >> >> >  disabled
> >> >> >  students. We have blind students who are never taught how to ask
> >> >> >  for
> >> >> >  accommodations. We have parents who think being blind is bad!
> >> >> >  Honestly, if I could have redone my education as a sighted
> >> >> >  person, I would
> >> >> >  not have done it. Being blind is such an advantage in the United
> >> >> >  States when
> >> >> >  going through school. You get extra time on everything, you get
> >> >> >  leniency on
> >> >> >  all your assignments if you can't finish them on time, you get
> >> >> >  free
> >> >> >  schooling, you get paid to go through school by SSI, you have so
> >> >> >  many
> >> >> >  scholarships you can apply for, you can use the law to fight for
> >> >> >  accessibility with little retribution, you become great friends
> >> >> >  with your
> >> >> >  teachers just because you get to talk to them all the time, you
> >> >> >  are by
> >> >> >  nature a very active participant in your class, you are able to
> >> >> >  read your
> >> >> >  books 1000 times faster than all of the other students combined,
> >> >> >  you're able
> >> >> >  to get tutoring for free, you don't have to feel ashamed for
> >> >> >  taking
> >> >> >  advantage of any of the above benefits because you're disabled
> >> >> >  and that's
> >> >> >  what you're expected to do!
> >> >> >  Also, the expectation of your teachers is rather low and when
> >> >> > you
> >> >> >  get 100%
> >> >> >  on all their hardest tests they get all embarrassed, people
> >> >> > think
> >> >> >  it's
> >> >> >  amazing that you're getting strait As when it's nothing,
> >> >> >  (Stereotypically)
> >> >> >  blind people are very unsocial so they have lots of extra time
> >> >> > to
> >> >> >  do school
> >> >> >  work, you're able to actually edit your teacher's handouts and
> >> >> >  instructions
> >> >> >  because Jaws doesn't miss skipped letters, if you have a problem
> >> >> >  with your
> >> >> >  online test you can blame it on your screen reader crashing the
> >> >> >  web browser,
> >> >> >  state colleges gobble you up if you have ever taken an honors
> >> >> >  class at a
> >> >> >  community college and you have good grades and you've written
> >> >> > one
> >> >> >  of those
> >> >> >  inspiring essays, when you write inspiring essays you can get
> >> >> > the
> >> >> >  super
> >> >> >  arrogant feeling for a moment and say "That's me in the essay!",
> >> >> >  you're able
> >> >> >  to participate in all kinds of extra activities through agencies
> >> >> >  like Global
> >> >> >  explorers or the Light House, you can participate in summer job
> >> >> >  programs
> >> >> >  like YES1 and YES2 in Washington State, when you go to community
> >> >> >  college or
> >> >> >  state college you're given a guide through the school because
> >> >> > you
> >> >> >  need a
> >> >> >  mobility lesson and you have the disability resource person.
> >> >> >  I should probably stop, but you get the idea...
> >> >> >  It's probably because I was homeschooled for the first few years
> >> >> >  of my life
> >> >> >  and did all kinds of super awesome things with my overly amazing
> >> >> >  parents and
> >> >> >  didn't enter public school till 5th grade that I have this view
> >> >> >  of school,
> >> >> >  but I understood that I could learn in public school and it was
> >> >> >  just that
> >> >> >  either the teacher wasn't teaching me or that I wasn't equipped
> >> >> >  with the
> >> >> >  skills or technology that was keeping me from learning.
> >> >> >  There are many other factors in learning, like Gardiner's
> >> >> >  multiple  theory
> >> >> >  of intelligences that play a factor in if one learns in school,
> >> >> >  but thank
> >> >> >  goodness I was able to learn that anyone can learn from anyone,
> >> >> >  they just
> >> >> >  need to know how they learn and learn that way!
> >> >> >  I can give examples, but this email is already super long, so
> >> >> >  I'll get off
> >> >> >  education.
> >> >> >  My point is that most blind people aren?셳 taught about all
> >> >> > the
> >> >> >  above things.
> >> >> >  I was super lucky because my parents let me run my IEP meetings
> >> >> >  and my mom
> >> >> >  became a TVI half way through my schooling, but every blind
> >> >> >  person needs to
> >> >> >  know that school can be amazing! It is worth spending 8-12 years
> >> >> >  of your
> >> >> >  life there getting your music degree or dentist degree.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Another factor is that disabled people are fit into even a
> >> >> >  tighter mold of
> >> >> >  what they are to be when disabled people are the most unique of
> >> >> >  anyone.
> >> >> >  Blind people do not belong in special ed classes because they
> >> >> >  don't need
> >> >> >  special ed. Special ed teachers are people who teach extreme
> >> >> >  cases of
> >> >> >  autistic or other mentally disabled people. If a blind person is
> >> >> >  put into
> >> >> >  that environment and they don't need it, they will go insane!
> >> >> >  It's like if
> >> >> >  Stephen Hawking would have been born totally disabled and people
> >> >> >  stuck him
> >> >> >  into special ed just because he can't talk!
> >> >> >  Where would cosmology be?
> >> >> >  Sadly it's those who break out of the mold and assimilate their
> >> >> >  own way into
> >> >> >  sighted culture in order to evade the label of mentally disabled
> >> >> >  that are
> >> >> >  fighting for these rights.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  I keep on telling people that if someone is considered weird
> >> >> > it's
> >> >> >  not them
> >> >> >  that's weird, it's you who's weird for thinking that they're
> >> >> >  weird. It's
> >> >> >  like you thinking the person in front of you is going through
> >> >> >  time the same
> >> >> >  way you are!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Sadly the world is not reasonable, so we have to shuck reason
> >> >> > and
> >> >> >  go for
> >> >> >  emotion. That's why we write all the super inspiring essays and
> >> >> >  that's why
> >> >> >  we have to assimilate into the sighted world.
> >> >> >  Those who end up working in low under minimum wage jobs have
> >> >> >  probably not
> >> >> >  learned how to assimilate enough to pass off as "normal" in the
> >> >> >  sighted
> >> >> >  community, so that's probably why they can't get the entry level
> >> >> >  jobs.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Before someone gives the line about not needing to be anything
> >> >> >  other than
> >> >> >  blind because we are blind, let me just say that most of this
> >> >> >  world likes to
> >> >> >  think they are sighted and normal. Most people like to walk with
> >> >> >  the crowd.
> >> >> >  Those who never learn to walk with the crowd are considered
> >> >> >  weird, those who
> >> >> >  learn how to walk with the crowd then figure out how to rise
> >> >> >  above it are
> >> >> >  considered great.
> >> >> >  Thanks,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Brandon Keith Biggs
> >> >> >  -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >  From: Arielle Silverman
> >> >> >  Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:27 PM
> >> >> >  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >> >  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Hi Brandon,
> >> >> >  These are all good points. I like your statement about blind
> >> >> >  people
> >> >> >  who are "nurtured to act like they are mentally disabled" as I
> >> >> >  have
> >> >> >  met a few people who unfortunately seem to fit that description.
> >> >> >  The problem is that there is no objective test to determine what
> >> >> >  a
> >> >> >  person is or is not capable of doing. Even so-called objective
> >> >> >  tests
> >> >> >  like IQ tests are incredibly biased and don't account for
> >> >> >  environmental factors that artificially limit people's abilities
> >> >> >  or
> >> >> >  knowledge, like what is expected of them by parents and
> >> >> > teachers,
> >> >> >  or
> >> >> >  what skills they are or are not taught. There is research
> >> >> > showing
> >> >> >  that
> >> >> >  when people are expected to behave or perform in a certain way,
> >> >> >  they
> >> >> >  tend to fulfill that expectation (this is called a
> >> >> >  "self-fulfilling
> >> >> >  prophesy; if you're interested in the research, look up
> >> >> >  "Pygmalian
> >> >> >  effect"). So when teachers are randomly told that some kids are
> >> >> >  smarter than others, they tend to treat those "smart" kids
> >> >> >  differently
> >> >> >  without even realizing it and eventually the "smart" kids end up
> >> >> >  performing better than the other kids. The reverse pattern too
> >> >> >  often
> >> >> >  happens with disabilities. People have so many assumptions about
> >> >> >  how
> >> >> >  disabilities limit potential, and people in authority can act in
> >> >> >  ways
> >> >> >  that make those assumptions come true.
> >> >> >  I also agree that people with disabilities would be much more
> >> >> >  productive in sheltered jobs if they did work that was
> >> >> >  intrinsically
> >> >> >  interesting to them and if the work was in a field they were
> >> >> >  actually
> >> >> >  good at. It is common knowledge that people of all ages and
> >> >> >  mental
> >> >> >  abilities will do a better job at any task if they find the task
> >> >> >  enjoyable and motivating. Too often, sheltered jobs are simply
> >> >> >  too
> >> >> >  boring to really engage people. Also, people with disabilities
> >> >> >  have
> >> >> >  their own talents that are rarely utilized in sheltered jobs. I
> >> >> >  have
> >> >> >  figured out that if I were forced to do a sheltered workshop
> >> >> > job,
> >> >> >  I
> >> >> >  would probably be the one losing them money if they paid me at
> >> >> >  minimum
> >> >> >  wage, because I have never been good at making stuff with my
> >> >> >  hands or
> >> >> >  using machines. Not only would I be bored to tears, but I just
> >> >> >  wouldn't be good at it. I am much better at writing and thinking
> >> >> >  and
> >> >> >  doing math, so I hope that society will let me use those skills
> >> >> >  instead of forcing me to do work I'm not skilled at.
> >> >> >  Regarding your comment about unemployment among the blind, it is
> >> >> >  true
> >> >> >  that many fields are accessible to the blind these days, yet the
> >> >> >  unemployment rate is still staggering. There are many reasons
> >> >> > for
> >> >> >  unemployment among the blind. I think one reason is that
> >> >> >  employers
> >> >> >  want to hire applicants with relevant experience, and in many
> >> >> >  fields,
> >> >> >  the entry-level position that people get at first to gain
> >> >> >  experience
> >> >> >  isn't accessible to the blind. This might not be true with
> >> >> >  programming, but in some fields it is really hard to get your
> >> >> >  foot in
> >> >> >  the door even if it's easier to work at higher levels. For
> >> >> >  example,
> >> >> >  before becoming a teacher, you need to do student teaching,
> >> >> > which
> >> >> >  means you are working under someone else who might not use
> >> >> >  accessible
> >> >> >  materials or who will doubt your ability to do the job. Without
> >> >> >  experience, it's harder to allay people's initial discriminatory
> >> >> >  doubts and fears about hiring a blind person. Also, even within
> >> >> >  an
> >> >> >  accessible field, individual employers might use materials that
> >> >> >  aren't
> >> >> >  accessible to the blind. So even though programming is very
> >> >> >  accessible, if some employers require you to use languages or
> >> >> >  scripts
> >> >> >  that aren't accessible, this will limit job options.
> >> >> >  Arielle
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  On 6/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >> >> >  wrote:
> >> >> >  Hello,
> >> >> >  It's a tricky situation. We can't really say what it's like
> >> >> >  being mentally
> >> >> >  disabled and it's hard to say what mentally disabled can or can
> >> >> >  not do. We
> >> >> >  also can't tell if the blind who are nurtured to act like
> >> >> >  mentally
> >> >> >  disabled
> >> >> >  people really are mentally  disabled.
> >> >> >  *That's a mouthful!*
> >> >> >  I am of the opinion that mentally disabled people are way under
> >> >> >  employed
> >> >> >  and
> >> >> >  jobs like Goodwill are completely the wrong job for many of
> >> >> >  them. But I'm
> >> >> >  not a professional and I can only say from personal experience
> >> >> >  that many
> >> >> >  mentally disabled people can do what they want quite well and
> >> >> >  often it's
> >> >> >  because they are babied and misunderstood  that they are
> >> >> >  pressured into
> >> >> >  doing jobs they aren?셳 good at.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  I do wonder the need of blind adults to be working at good will
> >> >> >  in the
> >> >> >  first
> >> >> >  place though when it's not that hard learning programming and
> >> >> >  it's pretty
> >> >> >  easy to get reeducated for free in the United States as a blind
> >> >> >  person. If
> >> >> >  your career isn't working out, I don't see why one wouldn't just
> >> >> >  take a
> >> >> >  class at their community college and change their job. I believe
> >> >> >  SSI is
> >> >> >  for
> >> >> >  college students and those fresh out of college, or for a back
> >> >> >  up when
> >> >> >  work
> >> >> >  isn't coming. I am still a student, but I know I have for sure
> >> >> >  jobs if I
> >> >> >  go
> >> >> >  into programming or being a TVI. So other than the moral
> >> >> >  issues, I'm not
> >> >> >  sure why capable blind people are working at goodwill.
> >> >> >  Thanks,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Brandon Keith Biggs
> >> >> >  -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >  From: Arielle Silverman
> >> >> >  Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 8:32 PM
> >> >> >  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >> >  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Hi all,
> >> >> >  I don't shop at Goodwill either, but I was regularly donating
> >> >> >  items
> >> >> >  like used clothes to Goodwill, and my parents do as well. A
> >> >> >  customer
> >> >> >  boycott might not matter much but a donor boycott would probably
> >> >> >  hurt
> >> >> >  them considerably. I have to say I found Justin's arguments very
> >> >> >  persuasive. I just hope that if we boycott all branches
> >> >> >  nationally, we
> >> >> >  make it very clear that what we want is a change to national
> >> >> >  policy.
> >> >> >  Interestingly, I used to rent an apartment from a woman (I'll
> >> >> >  call her
> >> >> >  S) whose full-time job was to be a live-in caretaker for a woman
> >> >> >  with
> >> >> >  Down's syndrome and significant mental retardation (I'll call
> >> >> >  her C).
> >> >> >  Since I rented the apartment right below theirs, I got to know
> >> >> >  both S
> >> >> >  and C quite well and learned a bit about C's situation.
> >> >> >  Apparently C
> >> >> >  is employed by a program for people with intellectual
> >> >> >  disabilities
> >> >> >  similar to Goodwill's but it wasn't Goodwill itself. I think S.
> >> >> >  told
> >> >> >  me that C. was paid around $1 per hour for doing an extremely
> >> >> >  menial
> >> >> >  job although I don't remember what that job was exactly.
> >> >> >  However, I
> >> >> >  don't think C. had any living expenses at all because she lived
> >> >> >  rent-free with S. She may have been helping pay for groceries.
> >> >> >  The
> >> >> >  program she was in was very custodial and I'm not sure she even
> >> >> >  had
> >> >> >  independent access to the money she earned at her job.
> >> >> >  I don't think I can really judge whether people with
> >> >> >  disabilities like
> >> >> >  C.'s are capable of living without custodial care or spending
> >> >> >  their
> >> >> >  own money, any more than a deaf person should be able to judge
> >> >> >  how
> >> >> >  independent blind people can be. I do suspect that people like
> >> >> >  C.
> >> >> >  would achieve more if they were held to higher expectations, and
> >> >> >  higher expectations should come with higher wages and more
> >> >> >  freedom.
> >> >> >  I definitely believe that anyone who lives independently should
> >> >> >  be
> >> >> >  paid at least the minimum wage, and I think it is clear that
> >> >> >  blindness
> >> >> >  by itself doesn't prevent anyone from living independently
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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