[nabs-l] Grad School
Arielle Silverman
arielle71 at gmail.com
Sun Jun 10 17:41:53 UTC 2012
Hi Deb,
My name is Arielle Silverman and I'm a doctoral student in Colorado. I
also grew up in AZ and will be in Dallas. I'd love to meet you and
introduce you to other folks from AZ, including students. If you want
to get together, email me privately at
arielle71 at gmail.com
Best,
Arielle
On 6/10/12, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> No sorry. UA UNIVERSITY OF AZ.
>
> Deb Cell (520) 225-8244
> On Jun 10, 2012 10:31 AM, "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> UA, as in Arkansas?
>> I'll be in Dallas!
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 6/10/12, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > R there any grad students in NAB?
>> > I'm attending UA in Spring 4 MLS. R any of u going 2 Dallas?
>> > Deb
>> >
>> > Deb Cell (520) 225-8244
>> > On Jun 10, 2012 10:17 AM, "Joshua Lester" <
>> jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Wow!
>> >> You'll be moving to Mr Lewis's headquarters.
>> >> Speaking of which, I'm about to start a new thread about that!
>> >> Blessings, Joshua
>> >>
>> >> On 6/10/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > My new boyfriend is from Georgia, so yeah, I have a good idea of
>> >> > whuaft kind of foods he likes, sort of. :)
>> >> > Beth
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:49:37 -0500
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Beth, the blind cooks list can provide you with the info you
>> >> > need, to
>> >> > cook Southern food.
>> >> > Where is your new boyfriend from?
>> >> > Thanks, Joshua
>> >> >
>> >> > On 6/10/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > First off, my boyfriend can't go to an independent living center
>> >> > out of state. It took that to get me to learn daily living
>> >> > skills. I live in my own, but I hate to live for two people.
>> >> > You've got great points, Brandon. My boyfriend will have to do
>> >> > daily living trainning, maybe I can find a daily living skills
>> >> > teacher in his state that can help. I tried learning from a
>> >> > daily living skills teacher, but the teachers I've worked with
>> >> > never really told my parents they had to be patient. HE's lucky
>> >> > his girlfriend is blind and can cook just as good as anyone.
>> >> > Btw, I made a casserole one day, and it's great that I did. If
>> >> > I
>> >> > have to move out with my boyffriend, I'll have to learn and
>> >> > teach
>> >> > myself how to make deviled eggs and southern fried chicken, some
>> >> > of his favorites. But I'll be that patient with him and help
>> >> > him
>> >> > get on his feet. I'll probably have to learn something, but I
>> >> > think living in the bay area won't be possible. I have to live
>> >> > where he is so that his heart doesn't get damaged or whuaftever.
>> >> > I think we're better than the people at Goodwill, and .. oh
>> >> > yeah, hopefully, we get good furniture from a furniture resale
>> >> > store unlike Goodwill.
>> >> > Beth
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 08:53:30 -0700
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello Beth,
>> >> > let me first say that judging by your emails you definitely have
>> >> > enough
>> >> > reasoning and writing ability to get what ever degree you wish.
>> >> > If you've
>> >> > read literature on human trafficking you have seen the worst.
>> >> > They shelter
>> >> > you in schools because they don't want to get sued. That doctor
>> >> > definitely
>> >> > has no idea what he's talking about. If I were you, I'd go to
>> >> > school and get
>> >> > that counseling degree, then invite that doctor to my
>> >> > graduation!
>> >> > If money
>> >> > is an issue, DOR and the state often have programs that can
>> >> > fully
>> >> > cover the
>> >> > cost of school, minus housing and food.
>> >> > Don't worry, you sound lots better informed than many people
>> >> > that
>> >> > I know
>> >> > about personal finance. I was looking at the Hadley Business
>> >> > section and I
>> >> > was really wondering why they didn't have personal finance and
>> >> > investing. I
>> >> > don't know anyone other than brokers who have the education to
>> >> > really make
>> >> > something of their money. Sadly though, personal finance is one
>> >> > of those
>> >> > things that are expected one learns on their own. Like speaking
>> >> > and
>> >> > socializing, it should just be a given that everyone knows about
>> >> > how to find
>> >> > banks with high interest rates and low fees, everyone knows how
>> >> > to budget
>> >> > effectively, everyone knows how to find the best deals on food
>> >> > and clothing,
>> >> > and no one needs any help on running a family in school.
>> >> > My communication teacher in school said that 99% of all the
>> >> > students that
>> >> > come to her class have never had a communication class in their
>> >> > life, yet
>> >> > 100% of her students have had to communicate.
>> >> > We are both a little baffled at this logic, but that's how life
>> >> > is I
>> >> > guess...?
>> >> > Personally I've found that those who have the most power over
>> >> > people in this
>> >> > world are those with money and those with exceptional
>> >> > communication skills.
>> >> > I would recommend everyone move to the Bay area here in CA and
>> >> > go
>> >> > to
>> >> > Foothill College. The teachers there are exceptional and the
>> >> > disability
>> >> > center is the best in the west. They also give oober
>> >> > scholarships
>> >> > to those
>> >> > students who come off as serious students *Points at his 9 grand
>> >> > in
>> >> > scholarships*.
>> >> > Also, you don't need DOR to pay for any part of school, as one
>> >> > can get
>> >> > renewable scholarships at a community college to pay for every
>> >> > part of
>> >> > school, except for $47 by just being on SSI.
>> >> > Beth, Here in the bay area we have a giant human trafficking
>> >> > problem as we
>> >> > are one of the major connection points for overseas travel. It's
>> >> > on the
>> >> > radio lots how they've caught slavers here and there, but
>> >> > besides
>> >> > that, the
>> >> > Bay Area is so much for women's studies, I've not seen any
>> >> > general college
>> >> > that doesn't offer a degree in women's studies.
>> >> > If I were anyone, I would totally move here to SF or go to NY,
>> >> > because not
>> >> > only is the blindness support so great, but public
>> >> > transportation
>> >> > is the
>> >> > best in the nation for both those places.
>> >> > But enough on me pushing SF...!
>> >> > Beth, your boyfriend sounds like he could do with a liberal dose
>> >> > of Daily
>> >> > living skills. Here where I live, there is a center called the
>> >> > "Vista
>> >> > Center" and DOR contracts out teachers to help you become
>> >> > independent. I
>> >> > love those teachers, because with their help, I was able to move
>> >> > out on my
>> >> > own when I was 18.
>> >> > I believe the Light House also has programs like this, and
>> >> > Justin
>> >> > was saying
>> >> > something about attending a program that also teaches living
>> >> > skills. But my
>> >> > teacher says she encounters two types of people. There are those
>> >> > who go
>> >> > above and beyond what they were asked and actually do what they
>> >> > were taught
>> >> > on their own, then there are those who do the minimum possible.
>> >> > They expect
>> >> > everything to be spoon fed to them. The first group are the ones
>> >> > who
>> >> > generally make it in the world as successful individuals. Beth,
>> >> > if I were
>> >> > you, I'd have a down to earth talk with your Boyfriend, letting
>> >> > him know
>> >> > that as it stands people don't believe in his ability to take
>> >> > care of
>> >> > himself. He may think that he could take care of himself, but
>> >> > you
>> >> > can let
>> >> > him know that he will have to prove it first. If he agrees, than
>> >> > it's time
>> >> > to look for a daily living skills teacher. If not, he may want
>> >> > to
>> >> > be sent to
>> >> > one of the independent living facilities, so he can see first
>> >> > hand why he
>> >> > must learn living skills in order to be free.
>> >> > I don't believe marriage should be really talked about until
>> >> > after your
>> >> > Boyfriend proves his stuff. Because Beth, you've got your life
>> >> > to
>> >> > live and
>> >> > you should not be forced to live for two people which you would
>> >> > be doing if
>> >> > you married and moved out with your boyfriend as things are now.
>> >> >
>> >> > I know what you mean about not going to prom. I never went to
>> >> > prom with a
>> >> > girl when I was in High school. I actually didn't get a
>> >> > girlfriend till my
>> >> > last year of High School and I broke up with her 5 months later.
>> >> > I didn't
>> >> > have another till a little over a year after that. It was with
>> >> > that second
>> >> > girlfriend that I went to prom. Frankly, school dances are the
>> >> > worst things
>> >> > since the invention of eyes.
>> >> > If you like loud music beating so loud that you can't hear
>> >> > yourself think,
>> >> > let alone hear your date talking, and if you like being squeezed
>> >> > together on
>> >> > all sides by grinding individuals, and if you're being shown how
>> >> > to dance by
>> >> > your partner, the only word I can label this, is hell.
>> >> > The romantic things before and after the dance are great, but
>> >> > the
>> >> > dance
>> >> > itself is terrible. So let me assure you that except for the
>> >> > romantic part,
>> >> > you did not miss much at the prom. They didn't even play the
>> >> > Blue
>> >> > Danube at
>> >> > the prom I went to! I thought that was required in order to have
>> >> > a dance to
>> >> > call themselves a dance?
>> >> > anyways, in my opinion the education is much more important when
>> >> > you're
>> >> > going through school than the social aspects. In college though,
>> >> > guys become
>> >> > much smarter and women become way more emotionally sound, just
>> >> > because they
>> >> > have lived and learned much more through their life.
>> >> > Most of the girls I've thought about dating have not been mature
>> >> > enough in
>> >> > some aspect of their life. My last girlfriend was too immature
>> >> > when it came
>> >> > to being focused and I learned the hard way that you should
>> >> > never
>> >> > expect
>> >> > people to change. So part of my problem about having a small
>> >> > social life is
>> >> > that even now, I find that the women I'm attracted to are still
>> >> > much to
>> >> > immature in some way for any kind of relationship to work.
>> >> > But for high school, I was not socially mature and even now I'm
>> >> > not socially
>> >> > mature enough to really fit in the sighted world. This is the
>> >> > biggest
>> >> > problem I've found, blind people are not able to pass themselves
>> >> > off as good
>> >> > relationship material in the sighted world. If the world was
>> >> > only
>> >> > blind this
>> >> > would be different, but because we live in a sight run culture,
>> >> > being able
>> >> > to be socially mature to those who are sighted is crucial if one
>> >> > wants to
>> >> > make it in anything other than strictly working in something
>> >> > like
>> >> > the NFB or
>> >> > Goodwill.
>> >> > We have to work extra hard at understanding what sighted people
>> >> > think and
>> >> > how sighted people do things in order to live as the sighted
>> >> > people. Once
>> >> > we're able to pass ourselves off enough so no one believes we're
>> >> > blind, we
>> >> > should then and only then, begin to emphasize the fact that we
>> >> > are blind.
>> >> > Because if we establish to people that we're blind first, they
>> >> > will look no
>> >> > farther than our disability. In sighted human evolution, being
>> >> > disabled is
>> >> > repulsive and we've got to fight against nature in order to do
>> >> > anything in
>> >> > the sighted world. Once one is able to show that they are a
>> >> > sighted person
>> >> > first, then they can show they are blind and at that point, one
>> >> > is able to
>> >> > make blindness something to be desired and interesting, not
>> >> > repulsive and
>> >> > weird.
>> >> > Thank you,
>> >> >
>> >> > Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Beth
>> >> > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:01 AM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Great points, Brandon. As someone who is both blind and
>> >> > mentally
>> >> > ill, I understand how it feels to be considered weird. I've
>> >> > been
>> >> > called a creep, told by some girl to my boyfriend's face that he
>> >> > could do better due to my disorder, and then threatened with all
>> >> > kinds of emotional attack and abuse. Due to blindness, I was
>> >> > told by the docs I'd be a vegetable. Huh? My dad says I'm a
>> >> > genius. I don't know, but my last IQ check said I was a 133,
>> >> > superior without all the visual battery of tests. But then
>> >> > again, IQ isn't everything. I live in Denver, alone, with no
>> >> > roommate to pander to my every need. I probably should say that
>> >> > with the right support and good friends around me, I could
>> >> > thrive. I could become a "normal" woman, work a "normal" job,
>> >> > and get "normal" wages. I could take care of children, my own
>> >> > children, and raise them to be good people, productive citizens
>> >> > of the United States of America, and I'd look forward to good
>> >> > days and bad days along the way. My old cane teacher is a
>> >> > fountain of wisdom when it comes to life's miseries, and the
>> >> > rapids of life don't get any higher than what they are. I could
>> >> > get deeper and say that God doesn't put us in a river with
>> >> > rapids
>> >> > that could not be handled by the rider. One of the biggest
>> >> > "whitewater rapids" so to speak is the employment and wages
>> >> > thing. Brandon and Arielle, you guys make a good point in that
>> >> > blind people are trained to act like mentally disabled people.
>> >> > My boyfriend doesn't know money. I wonder if I can possibly
>> >> > teach him the basics of money management and budgeting. I
>> >> > struggle with it myself because SSI is too little to live off
>> >> > of,
>> >> > and I was given a plane ticket, but not the money for baggage
>> >> > fees and cab fare to get to and from the airport. So I'm stuck
>> >> > paying for that. My boyfriend also doesn't know how to keep
>> >> > track of his own wages, and if he becomes a big-time producer
>> >> > for
>> >> > all sorts of rappers who would run to him, I don't know how he's
>> >> > going to run the household and help me pay my bills too. What
>> >> > if
>> >> > I'm incapacitated for real this time? I mean, like, Terry
>> >> > Shiavo? How's Jason, who I may designate as a healthcare
>> >> > surrogate, going to make that decision? My hope is that he
>> >> > won't
>> >> > have to do that, but if that happens, I need someone that I feel
>> >> > can be trusted to make the decisions about my bills and stuff.
>> >> > I
>> >> > was asked by my boyfriend's mom of all people to help her with
>> >> > him a bit. Just to think of Jason in the situation he's in just
>> >> > makes me so sick. I want him to manage his own wages, cook me a
>> >> > meal if I get sick, and fry me some chicken or grill a burger on
>> >> > Memorial Day. He has the potential to do those things, and the
>> >> > weird part is that his parents are open to us having a
>> >> > relationship. Most disabled people's parents, including but not
>> >> > limited to my own, are not as open about relations with poorer
>> >> > people. Both Jason and I are poor, but I think we can live
>> >> > together successfully with all the right supports, and if we
>> >> > can't find jobs, so what? We need family support to get by.
>> >> > But
>> >> > I really do dream of having my own private house, being able to
>> >> > manage my bills, being able to buy foods that are nutritious to
>> >> > my children and so on, and feeding the baby and having Jason
>> >> > there to have breakfast with in the mornings, and not his old
>> >> > mother. Not to say she's bad, but it's a dream I want to have.
>> >> > My mother should not have to manage my money. Yes, I'm not so
>> >> > good at money management, but I've learned a few lessons like
>> >> > how
>> >> > to go back and look at your payment history every time if you
>> >> > get
>> >> > suspicious about a charge. Like if the bills are on autopay,
>> >> > you
>> >> > have to look back and see if the weird corporate robbers, if I
>> >> > may use such a cold term, are stealing your money. I felt
>> >> > Comcast was robbing me of my precious money, and especially this
>> >> > month
>> >> > because of a trip, and next month because of a move I have to
>> >> > do,
>> >> > I can't afford a $70 internet bill. That's just too much unless
>> >> > you're really living in low income housing. I know a lot about
>> >> > disabled or low income housing. Boy, my boyfriend has a lot to
>> >> > learn, and he'll learn lots while I'm with him. Lots of times,
>> >> > blind people are sheltered by their parents, and of course, the
>> >> > parents I had were good parents, no doubt, but they had their
>> >> > flaws. Jason is lucky in some ways, but his parents said the
>> >> > same stuff that all sighted people say, "He has it made. We
>> >> > wait
>> >> > on him hand and foot ..." And so on. This creates a problem.
>> >> > Blind people need to not be waited on hand and foot. We can't
>> >> > necessarily be pandered to our every need like little Veruca
>> >> > Salt
>> >> > in charlie and the Chocolate Factory if I may reference a
>> >> > spoiled
>> >> > literary figure. We can't be pandered or revered as Helen
>> >> > Keller
>> >> > was by her family in her early years. Unlike Jason, Helen was
>> >> > deaf and in me and Jason's time, jobs are ample, and skills are
>> >> > ample thanks to technology. With Helen Keller's time, there
>> >> > were
>> >> > no jobs open, and marriage and motherhood were closed to Helen.
>> >> > I as a blind woman am thankful that marriage is open to
>> >> > me--hence
>> >> > the boyfriend I currently have--and relationships period. Jobs
>> >> > and technology have risen while I was growing up. It only seems
>> >> > like yesterday that I would not be sending this superbly long
>> >> > email. Thanks to emails and Facebook and Twitter, I feel much
>> >> > more connected to my friends and family, and especially to my
>> >> > dear cousin Sarah, but yet she never calls me. Ha ha. But
>> >> > thanks to cell phones, I can go anywhere and give everyone a
>> >> > text
>> >> > message. Imagine poor blind Beth texting! It only seems like
>> >> > yesterday that my parents didn't think I needed an accessible
>> >> > phone, but when I fought to get an accessible phone, and my
>> >> > ex-boyfriend taught me how to write letters on the phone, which
>> >> > is a skill I still fail at sometimes (lol), I have texted my
>> >> > friends and I can receive texts from people. I would hate to
>> >> > change my address, but I do that. I will be in Denver for a
>> >> > good
>> >> > while so I can do my college and keep the ducks in a row as I
>> >> > would hear my mother say. When I get my ducks in a row, I plan
>> >> > to move on to bigger and better things, and I want to get a job
>> >> > helping human trafficking victims. Denver has a strong victim
>> >> > advocate program, but that's only the Muslim Family Services
>> >> > that
>> >> > may have that. I'd heard that Atlanta has a big problem with
>> >> > human trafficking. Well, so do some areas of Florida, but if
>> >> > there's slavery and trafficking, I'll be there to stop it. I'd
>> >> > like to give former slaves and prostitutes a chance at life, but
>> >> > where will I go without a college degree in women's studies and
>> >> > a
>> >> > good background in such matters? I was never trafficked, but I
>> >> > have read countless literature, and have seen it firsthand or
>> >> > through others, what sorts of cruelty exist in the world.
>> >> > To keep the message on topic, I want to say that such a job
>> >> > helping human trafficking victims shouldn't require a social
>> >> > work
>> >> > degree, which the doc says I'm too messed up to do. I want to
>> >> > advise all of us to please take suspicious statements like,
>> >> > "She's pretending to be a certain ethnic group" or "She's not
>> >> > fit
>> >> > to do something because of mental deficiencies." What sort of
>> >> > nonsensical statements these are! DVR in Colorado doesn't seem
>> >> > to get it. They tell me I'm too messed up for college but they
>> >> > don't seem to understand that the importance of college is more
>> >> > to me than anybody. My brothers are taking college classes, and
>> >> > they will graduate, marry, and have families as expected. But
>> >> > what will I do? My parents will dictate who I will marry due to
>> >> > gender and blindness, they will tell me what talents I have
>> >> > because I'm so "malleable", as some people think blind people
>> >> > are, and then my teachers, doctors, psychologists, social
>> >> > workers, and case managers will either take my babies or let me
>> >> > keep them with sighted supervision, and so on. But going
>> >> > through
>> >> > school is not easy. Brandon, you said school is great, but you
>> >> > don't realize that as a blind person in a million living in a
>> >> > small town, nobody cared to dance with me at homecoming or prom.
>> >> > That's the price I paid for being blind. Nobody cared to offer
>> >> > me flowers on a date. I didn't have the normal teenager things
>> >> > that every teenage girl dreams about. If I have a daughter, I
>> >> > want to dress her up for prom and her wedding day with such
>> >> > pride
>> >> > a mother would share with her spouse and daughter alike. My
>> >> > mother never got that opportunity with me. She would help me
>> >> > into my chorus dresses, but those were mere obligations to the
>> >> > school. My mom believed that prom was for dates only, and
>> >> > summer
>> >> > jobs? Out of the question. I can't get a good experience if I
>> >> > am not allowed to work. Titusville is a small town in Florida,
>> >> > and I and another man were the only blind people in it. I being
>> >> > the only and youngest blind woman in the town couldn't be
>> >> > offered
>> >> > a job. The only jobs offered were at the hospital, where
>> >> > medical
>> >> > experience was required, and the Space Center, where engineering
>> >> > degrees were preferred. My dad can attest to the people he's
>> >> > interviewed for jobs, and unfortunately, there's not enough
>> >> > blind
>> >> > computer engineers, except those in the underground geek
>> >> > industry
>> >> > as I like to call it, to go around. We also need to learn to
>> >> > communicate with others who are sighted, speak their language so
>> >> > to speak.
>> >> > Ok, my rant is over.
>> >> > Beth
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 23:57:32 -0700
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> > I'm sure many people who have talked to me before know what I'm
>> >> > going to
>> >> > say...
>> >> > It's the educational system that many of these problems come
>> >> > down
>> >> > to. We
>> >> > have teachers coming out of school who are not inspired to
>> >> > create
>> >> > a new
>> >> > style of teaching. We have teachers who are never taught about
>> >> > disabled
>> >> > students. We have blind students who are never taught how to ask
>> >> > for
>> >> > accommodations. We have parents who think being blind is bad!
>> >> > Honestly, if I could have redone my education as a sighted
>> >> > person, I would
>> >> > not have done it. Being blind is such an advantage in the United
>> >> > States when
>> >> > going through school. You get extra time on everything, you get
>> >> > leniency on
>> >> > all your assignments if you can't finish them on time, you get
>> >> > free
>> >> > schooling, you get paid to go through school by SSI, you have so
>> >> > many
>> >> > scholarships you can apply for, you can use the law to fight for
>> >> > accessibility with little retribution, you become great friends
>> >> > with your
>> >> > teachers just because you get to talk to them all the time, you
>> >> > are by
>> >> > nature a very active participant in your class, you are able to
>> >> > read your
>> >> > books 1000 times faster than all of the other students combined,
>> >> > you're able
>> >> > to get tutoring for free, you don't have to feel ashamed for
>> >> > taking
>> >> > advantage of any of the above benefits because you're disabled
>> >> > and that's
>> >> > what you're expected to do!
>> >> > Also, the expectation of your teachers is rather low and when
>> >> > you
>> >> > get 100%
>> >> > on all their hardest tests they get all embarrassed, people
>> >> > think
>> >> > it's
>> >> > amazing that you're getting strait As when it's nothing,
>> >> > (Stereotypically)
>> >> > blind people are very unsocial so they have lots of extra time
>> >> > to
>> >> > do school
>> >> > work, you're able to actually edit your teacher's handouts and
>> >> > instructions
>> >> > because Jaws doesn't miss skipped letters, if you have a problem
>> >> > with your
>> >> > online test you can blame it on your screen reader crashing the
>> >> > web browser,
>> >> > state colleges gobble you up if you have ever taken an honors
>> >> > class at a
>> >> > community college and you have good grades and you've written
>> >> > one
>> >> > of those
>> >> > inspiring essays, when you write inspiring essays you can get
>> >> > the
>> >> > super
>> >> > arrogant feeling for a moment and say "That's me in the essay!",
>> >> > you're able
>> >> > to participate in all kinds of extra activities through agencies
>> >> > like Global
>> >> > explorers or the Light House, you can participate in summer job
>> >> > programs
>> >> > like YES1 and YES2 in Washington State, when you go to community
>> >> > college or
>> >> > state college you're given a guide through the school because
>> >> > you
>> >> > need a
>> >> > mobility lesson and you have the disability resource person.
>> >> > I should probably stop, but you get the idea...
>> >> > It's probably because I was homeschooled for the first few years
>> >> > of my life
>> >> > and did all kinds of super awesome things with my overly amazing
>> >> > parents and
>> >> > didn't enter public school till 5th grade that I have this view
>> >> > of school,
>> >> > but I understood that I could learn in public school and it was
>> >> > just that
>> >> > either the teacher wasn't teaching me or that I wasn't equipped
>> >> > with the
>> >> > skills or technology that was keeping me from learning.
>> >> > There are many other factors in learning, like Gardiner's
>> >> > multiple theory
>> >> > of intelligences that play a factor in if one learns in school,
>> >> > but thank
>> >> > goodness I was able to learn that anyone can learn from anyone,
>> >> > they just
>> >> > need to know how they learn and learn that way!
>> >> > I can give examples, but this email is already super long, so
>> >> > I'll get off
>> >> > education.
>> >> > My point is that most blind people aren?셳 taught about all
>> >> > the
>> >> > above things.
>> >> > I was super lucky because my parents let me run my IEP meetings
>> >> > and my mom
>> >> > became a TVI half way through my schooling, but every blind
>> >> > person needs to
>> >> > know that school can be amazing! It is worth spending 8-12 years
>> >> > of your
>> >> > life there getting your music degree or dentist degree.
>> >> >
>> >> > Another factor is that disabled people are fit into even a
>> >> > tighter mold of
>> >> > what they are to be when disabled people are the most unique of
>> >> > anyone.
>> >> > Blind people do not belong in special ed classes because they
>> >> > don't need
>> >> > special ed. Special ed teachers are people who teach extreme
>> >> > cases of
>> >> > autistic or other mentally disabled people. If a blind person is
>> >> > put into
>> >> > that environment and they don't need it, they will go insane!
>> >> > It's like if
>> >> > Stephen Hawking would have been born totally disabled and people
>> >> > stuck him
>> >> > into special ed just because he can't talk!
>> >> > Where would cosmology be?
>> >> > Sadly it's those who break out of the mold and assimilate their
>> >> > own way into
>> >> > sighted culture in order to evade the label of mentally disabled
>> >> > that are
>> >> > fighting for these rights.
>> >> >
>> >> > I keep on telling people that if someone is considered weird
>> >> > it's
>> >> > not them
>> >> > that's weird, it's you who's weird for thinking that they're
>> >> > weird. It's
>> >> > like you thinking the person in front of you is going through
>> >> > time the same
>> >> > way you are!
>> >> >
>> >> > Sadly the world is not reasonable, so we have to shuck reason
>> >> > and
>> >> > go for
>> >> > emotion. That's why we write all the super inspiring essays and
>> >> > that's why
>> >> > we have to assimilate into the sighted world.
>> >> > Those who end up working in low under minimum wage jobs have
>> >> > probably not
>> >> > learned how to assimilate enough to pass off as "normal" in the
>> >> > sighted
>> >> > community, so that's probably why they can't get the entry level
>> >> > jobs.
>> >> >
>> >> > Before someone gives the line about not needing to be anything
>> >> > other than
>> >> > blind because we are blind, let me just say that most of this
>> >> > world likes to
>> >> > think they are sighted and normal. Most people like to walk with
>> >> > the crowd.
>> >> > Those who never learn to walk with the crowd are considered
>> >> > weird, those who
>> >> > learn how to walk with the crowd then figure out how to rise
>> >> > above it are
>> >> > considered great.
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> > Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Arielle Silverman
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:27 PM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi Brandon,
>> >> > These are all good points. I like your statement about blind
>> >> > people
>> >> > who are "nurtured to act like they are mentally disabled" as I
>> >> > have
>> >> > met a few people who unfortunately seem to fit that description.
>> >> > The problem is that there is no objective test to determine what
>> >> > a
>> >> > person is or is not capable of doing. Even so-called objective
>> >> > tests
>> >> > like IQ tests are incredibly biased and don't account for
>> >> > environmental factors that artificially limit people's abilities
>> >> > or
>> >> > knowledge, like what is expected of them by parents and
>> >> > teachers,
>> >> > or
>> >> > what skills they are or are not taught. There is research
>> >> > showing
>> >> > that
>> >> > when people are expected to behave or perform in a certain way,
>> >> > they
>> >> > tend to fulfill that expectation (this is called a
>> >> > "self-fulfilling
>> >> > prophesy; if you're interested in the research, look up
>> >> > "Pygmalian
>> >> > effect"). So when teachers are randomly told that some kids are
>> >> > smarter than others, they tend to treat those "smart" kids
>> >> > differently
>> >> > without even realizing it and eventually the "smart" kids end up
>> >> > performing better than the other kids. The reverse pattern too
>> >> > often
>> >> > happens with disabilities. People have so many assumptions about
>> >> > how
>> >> > disabilities limit potential, and people in authority can act in
>> >> > ways
>> >> > that make those assumptions come true.
>> >> > I also agree that people with disabilities would be much more
>> >> > productive in sheltered jobs if they did work that was
>> >> > intrinsically
>> >> > interesting to them and if the work was in a field they were
>> >> > actually
>> >> > good at. It is common knowledge that people of all ages and
>> >> > mental
>> >> > abilities will do a better job at any task if they find the task
>> >> > enjoyable and motivating. Too often, sheltered jobs are simply
>> >> > too
>> >> > boring to really engage people. Also, people with disabilities
>> >> > have
>> >> > their own talents that are rarely utilized in sheltered jobs. I
>> >> > have
>> >> > figured out that if I were forced to do a sheltered workshop
>> >> > job,
>> >> > I
>> >> > would probably be the one losing them money if they paid me at
>> >> > minimum
>> >> > wage, because I have never been good at making stuff with my
>> >> > hands or
>> >> > using machines. Not only would I be bored to tears, but I just
>> >> > wouldn't be good at it. I am much better at writing and thinking
>> >> > and
>> >> > doing math, so I hope that society will let me use those skills
>> >> > instead of forcing me to do work I'm not skilled at.
>> >> > Regarding your comment about unemployment among the blind, it is
>> >> > true
>> >> > that many fields are accessible to the blind these days, yet the
>> >> > unemployment rate is still staggering. There are many reasons
>> >> > for
>> >> > unemployment among the blind. I think one reason is that
>> >> > employers
>> >> > want to hire applicants with relevant experience, and in many
>> >> > fields,
>> >> > the entry-level position that people get at first to gain
>> >> > experience
>> >> > isn't accessible to the blind. This might not be true with
>> >> > programming, but in some fields it is really hard to get your
>> >> > foot in
>> >> > the door even if it's easier to work at higher levels. For
>> >> > example,
>> >> > before becoming a teacher, you need to do student teaching,
>> >> > which
>> >> > means you are working under someone else who might not use
>> >> > accessible
>> >> > materials or who will doubt your ability to do the job. Without
>> >> > experience, it's harder to allay people's initial discriminatory
>> >> > doubts and fears about hiring a blind person. Also, even within
>> >> > an
>> >> > accessible field, individual employers might use materials that
>> >> > aren't
>> >> > accessible to the blind. So even though programming is very
>> >> > accessible, if some employers require you to use languages or
>> >> > scripts
>> >> > that aren't accessible, this will limit job options.
>> >> > Arielle
>> >> >
>> >> > On 6/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> > It's a tricky situation. We can't really say what it's like
>> >> > being mentally
>> >> > disabled and it's hard to say what mentally disabled can or can
>> >> > not do. We
>> >> > also can't tell if the blind who are nurtured to act like
>> >> > mentally
>> >> > disabled
>> >> > people really are mentally disabled.
>> >> > *That's a mouthful!*
>> >> > I am of the opinion that mentally disabled people are way under
>> >> > employed
>> >> > and
>> >> > jobs like Goodwill are completely the wrong job for many of
>> >> > them. But I'm
>> >> > not a professional and I can only say from personal experience
>> >> > that many
>> >> > mentally disabled people can do what they want quite well and
>> >> > often it's
>> >> > because they are babied and misunderstood that they are
>> >> > pressured into
>> >> > doing jobs they aren?셳 good at.
>> >> >
>> >> > I do wonder the need of blind adults to be working at good will
>> >> > in the
>> >> > first
>> >> > place though when it's not that hard learning programming and
>> >> > it's pretty
>> >> > easy to get reeducated for free in the United States as a blind
>> >> > person. If
>> >> > your career isn't working out, I don't see why one wouldn't just
>> >> > take a
>> >> > class at their community college and change their job. I believe
>> >> > SSI is
>> >> > for
>> >> > college students and those fresh out of college, or for a back
>> >> > up when
>> >> > work
>> >> > isn't coming. I am still a student, but I know I have for sure
>> >> > jobs if I
>> >> > go
>> >> > into programming or being a TVI. So other than the moral
>> >> > issues, I'm not
>> >> > sure why capable blind people are working at goodwill.
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> > Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Arielle Silverman
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 8:32 PM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi all,
>> >> > I don't shop at Goodwill either, but I was regularly donating
>> >> > items
>> >> > like used clothes to Goodwill, and my parents do as well. A
>> >> > customer
>> >> > boycott might not matter much but a donor boycott would probably
>> >> > hurt
>> >> > them considerably. I have to say I found Justin's arguments very
>> >> > persuasive. I just hope that if we boycott all branches
>> >> > nationally, we
>> >> > make it very clear that what we want is a change to national
>> >> > policy.
>> >> > Interestingly, I used to rent an apartment from a woman (I'll
>> >> > call her
>> >> > S) whose full-time job was to be a live-in caretaker for a woman
>> >> > with
>> >> > Down's syndrome and significant mental retardation (I'll call
>> >> > her C).
>> >> > Since I rented the apartment right below theirs, I got to know
>> >> > both S
>> >> > and C quite well and learned a bit about C's situation.
>> >> > Apparently C
>> >> > is employed by a program for people with intellectual
>> >> > disabilities
>> >> > similar to Goodwill's but it wasn't Goodwill itself. I think S.
>> >> > told
>> >> > me that C. was paid around $1 per hour for doing an extremely
>> >> > menial
>> >> > job although I don't remember what that job was exactly.
>> >> > However, I
>> >> > don't think C. had any living expenses at all because she lived
>> >> > rent-free with S. She may have been helping pay for groceries.
>> >> > The
>> >> > program she was in was very custodial and I'm not sure she even
>> >> > had
>> >> > independent access to the money she earned at her job.
>> >> > I don't think I can really judge whether people with
>> >> > disabilities like
>> >> > C.'s are capable of living without custodial care or spending
>> >> > their
>> >> > own money, any more than a deaf person should be able to judge
>> >> > how
>> >> > independent blind people can be. I do suspect that people like
>> >> > C.
>> >> > would achieve more if they were held to higher expectations, and
>> >> > higher expectations should come with higher wages and more
>> >> > freedom.
>> >> > I definitely believe that anyone who lives independently should
>> >> > be
>> >> > paid at least the minimum wage, and I think it is clear that
>> >> > blindness
>> >> > by itself doesn't prevent anyone from living independently
>> >> >
>> >>
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