[nabs-l] Grad School
Deb Mendelsohn
deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com
Sun Jun 10 17:44:02 UTC 2012
Wow that sound interesting.
Deb Cell (520) 225-8244
On Jun 10, 2012 10:41 AM, "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
wrote:
> Wow!
> What's your major?
> I'm not going to grad school, but I'm getting my degree in Behavioral
> Health, in May of 2013.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 6/10/12, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > No sorry. UA UNIVERSITY OF AZ.
> >
> > Deb Cell (520) 225-8244
> > On Jun 10, 2012 10:31 AM, "Joshua Lester" <
> jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> UA, as in Arkansas?
> >> I'll be in Dallas!
> >> Thanks, Joshua
> >>
> >> On 6/10/12, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > R there any grad students in NAB?
> >> > I'm attending UA in Spring 4 MLS. R any of u going 2 Dallas?
> >> > Deb
> >> >
> >> > Deb Cell (520) 225-8244
> >> > On Jun 10, 2012 10:17 AM, "Joshua Lester" <
> >> jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Wow!
> >> >> You'll be moving to Mr Lewis's headquarters.
> >> >> Speaking of which, I'm about to start a new thread about that!
> >> >> Blessings, Joshua
> >> >>
> >> >> On 6/10/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > My new boyfriend is from Georgia, so yeah, I have a good idea of
> >> >> > whuaft kind of foods he likes, sort of. :)
> >> >> > Beth
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> >> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> > Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:49:37 -0500
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Beth, the blind cooks list can provide you with the info you
> >> >> > need, to
> >> >> > cook Southern food.
> >> >> > Where is your new boyfriend from?
> >> >> > Thanks, Joshua
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 6/10/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > First off, my boyfriend can't go to an independent living center
> >> >> > out of state. It took that to get me to learn daily living
> >> >> > skills. I live in my own, but I hate to live for two people.
> >> >> > You've got great points, Brandon. My boyfriend will have to do
> >> >> > daily living trainning, maybe I can find a daily living skills
> >> >> > teacher in his state that can help. I tried learning from a
> >> >> > daily living skills teacher, but the teachers I've worked with
> >> >> > never really told my parents they had to be patient. HE's lucky
> >> >> > his girlfriend is blind and can cook just as good as anyone.
> >> >> > Btw, I made a casserole one day, and it's great that I did. If
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > have to move out with my boyffriend, I'll have to learn and
> >> >> > teach
> >> >> > myself how to make deviled eggs and southern fried chicken, some
> >> >> > of his favorites. But I'll be that patient with him and help
> >> >> > him
> >> >> > get on his feet. I'll probably have to learn something, but I
> >> >> > think living in the bay area won't be possible. I have to live
> >> >> > where he is so that his heart doesn't get damaged or whuaftever.
> >> >> > I think we're better than the people at Goodwill, and .. oh
> >> >> > yeah, hopefully, we get good furniture from a furniture resale
> >> >> > store unlike Goodwill.
> >> >> > Beth
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> > Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 08:53:30 -0700
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hello Beth,
> >> >> > let me first say that judging by your emails you definitely have
> >> >> > enough
> >> >> > reasoning and writing ability to get what ever degree you wish.
> >> >> > If you've
> >> >> > read literature on human trafficking you have seen the worst.
> >> >> > They shelter
> >> >> > you in schools because they don't want to get sued. That doctor
> >> >> > definitely
> >> >> > has no idea what he's talking about. If I were you, I'd go to
> >> >> > school and get
> >> >> > that counseling degree, then invite that doctor to my
> >> >> > graduation!
> >> >> > If money
> >> >> > is an issue, DOR and the state often have programs that can
> >> >> > fully
> >> >> > cover the
> >> >> > cost of school, minus housing and food.
> >> >> > Don't worry, you sound lots better informed than many people
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > I know
> >> >> > about personal finance. I was looking at the Hadley Business
> >> >> > section and I
> >> >> > was really wondering why they didn't have personal finance and
> >> >> > investing. I
> >> >> > don't know anyone other than brokers who have the education to
> >> >> > really make
> >> >> > something of their money. Sadly though, personal finance is one
> >> >> > of those
> >> >> > things that are expected one learns on their own. Like speaking
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > socializing, it should just be a given that everyone knows about
> >> >> > how to find
> >> >> > banks with high interest rates and low fees, everyone knows how
> >> >> > to budget
> >> >> > effectively, everyone knows how to find the best deals on food
> >> >> > and clothing,
> >> >> > and no one needs any help on running a family in school.
> >> >> > My communication teacher in school said that 99% of all the
> >> >> > students that
> >> >> > come to her class have never had a communication class in their
> >> >> > life, yet
> >> >> > 100% of her students have had to communicate.
> >> >> > We are both a little baffled at this logic, but that's how life
> >> >> > is I
> >> >> > guess...?
> >> >> > Personally I've found that those who have the most power over
> >> >> > people in this
> >> >> > world are those with money and those with exceptional
> >> >> > communication skills.
> >> >> > I would recommend everyone move to the Bay area here in CA and
> >> >> > go
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > Foothill College. The teachers there are exceptional and the
> >> >> > disability
> >> >> > center is the best in the west. They also give oober
> >> >> > scholarships
> >> >> > to those
> >> >> > students who come off as serious students *Points at his 9 grand
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > scholarships*.
> >> >> > Also, you don't need DOR to pay for any part of school, as one
> >> >> > can get
> >> >> > renewable scholarships at a community college to pay for every
> >> >> > part of
> >> >> > school, except for $47 by just being on SSI.
> >> >> > Beth, Here in the bay area we have a giant human trafficking
> >> >> > problem as we
> >> >> > are one of the major connection points for overseas travel. It's
> >> >> > on the
> >> >> > radio lots how they've caught slavers here and there, but
> >> >> > besides
> >> >> > that, the
> >> >> > Bay Area is so much for women's studies, I've not seen any
> >> >> > general college
> >> >> > that doesn't offer a degree in women's studies.
> >> >> > If I were anyone, I would totally move here to SF or go to NY,
> >> >> > because not
> >> >> > only is the blindness support so great, but public
> >> >> > transportation
> >> >> > is the
> >> >> > best in the nation for both those places.
> >> >> > But enough on me pushing SF...!
> >> >> > Beth, your boyfriend sounds like he could do with a liberal dose
> >> >> > of Daily
> >> >> > living skills. Here where I live, there is a center called the
> >> >> > "Vista
> >> >> > Center" and DOR contracts out teachers to help you become
> >> >> > independent. I
> >> >> > love those teachers, because with their help, I was able to move
> >> >> > out on my
> >> >> > own when I was 18.
> >> >> > I believe the Light House also has programs like this, and
> >> >> > Justin
> >> >> > was saying
> >> >> > something about attending a program that also teaches living
> >> >> > skills. But my
> >> >> > teacher says she encounters two types of people. There are those
> >> >> > who go
> >> >> > above and beyond what they were asked and actually do what they
> >> >> > were taught
> >> >> > on their own, then there are those who do the minimum possible.
> >> >> > They expect
> >> >> > everything to be spoon fed to them. The first group are the ones
> >> >> > who
> >> >> > generally make it in the world as successful individuals. Beth,
> >> >> > if I were
> >> >> > you, I'd have a down to earth talk with your Boyfriend, letting
> >> >> > him know
> >> >> > that as it stands people don't believe in his ability to take
> >> >> > care of
> >> >> > himself. He may think that he could take care of himself, but
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > can let
> >> >> > him know that he will have to prove it first. If he agrees, than
> >> >> > it's time
> >> >> > to look for a daily living skills teacher. If not, he may want
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > be sent to
> >> >> > one of the independent living facilities, so he can see first
> >> >> > hand why he
> >> >> > must learn living skills in order to be free.
> >> >> > I don't believe marriage should be really talked about until
> >> >> > after your
> >> >> > Boyfriend proves his stuff. Because Beth, you've got your life
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > live and
> >> >> > you should not be forced to live for two people which you would
> >> >> > be doing if
> >> >> > you married and moved out with your boyfriend as things are now.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I know what you mean about not going to prom. I never went to
> >> >> > prom with a
> >> >> > girl when I was in High school. I actually didn't get a
> >> >> > girlfriend till my
> >> >> > last year of High School and I broke up with her 5 months later.
> >> >> > I didn't
> >> >> > have another till a little over a year after that. It was with
> >> >> > that second
> >> >> > girlfriend that I went to prom. Frankly, school dances are the
> >> >> > worst things
> >> >> > since the invention of eyes.
> >> >> > If you like loud music beating so loud that you can't hear
> >> >> > yourself think,
> >> >> > let alone hear your date talking, and if you like being squeezed
> >> >> > together on
> >> >> > all sides by grinding individuals, and if you're being shown how
> >> >> > to dance by
> >> >> > your partner, the only word I can label this, is hell.
> >> >> > The romantic things before and after the dance are great, but
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > dance
> >> >> > itself is terrible. So let me assure you that except for the
> >> >> > romantic part,
> >> >> > you did not miss much at the prom. They didn't even play the
> >> >> > Blue
> >> >> > Danube at
> >> >> > the prom I went to! I thought that was required in order to have
> >> >> > a dance to
> >> >> > call themselves a dance?
> >> >> > anyways, in my opinion the education is much more important when
> >> >> > you're
> >> >> > going through school than the social aspects. In college though,
> >> >> > guys become
> >> >> > much smarter and women become way more emotionally sound, just
> >> >> > because they
> >> >> > have lived and learned much more through their life.
> >> >> > Most of the girls I've thought about dating have not been mature
> >> >> > enough in
> >> >> > some aspect of their life. My last girlfriend was too immature
> >> >> > when it came
> >> >> > to being focused and I learned the hard way that you should
> >> >> > never
> >> >> > expect
> >> >> > people to change. So part of my problem about having a small
> >> >> > social life is
> >> >> > that even now, I find that the women I'm attracted to are still
> >> >> > much to
> >> >> > immature in some way for any kind of relationship to work.
> >> >> > But for high school, I was not socially mature and even now I'm
> >> >> > not socially
> >> >> > mature enough to really fit in the sighted world. This is the
> >> >> > biggest
> >> >> > problem I've found, blind people are not able to pass themselves
> >> >> > off as good
> >> >> > relationship material in the sighted world. If the world was
> >> >> > only
> >> >> > blind this
> >> >> > would be different, but because we live in a sight run culture,
> >> >> > being able
> >> >> > to be socially mature to those who are sighted is crucial if one
> >> >> > wants to
> >> >> > make it in anything other than strictly working in something
> >> >> > like
> >> >> > the NFB or
> >> >> > Goodwill.
> >> >> > We have to work extra hard at understanding what sighted people
> >> >> > think and
> >> >> > how sighted people do things in order to live as the sighted
> >> >> > people. Once
> >> >> > we're able to pass ourselves off enough so no one believes we're
> >> >> > blind, we
> >> >> > should then and only then, begin to emphasize the fact that we
> >> >> > are blind.
> >> >> > Because if we establish to people that we're blind first, they
> >> >> > will look no
> >> >> > farther than our disability. In sighted human evolution, being
> >> >> > disabled is
> >> >> > repulsive and we've got to fight against nature in order to do
> >> >> > anything in
> >> >> > the sighted world. Once one is able to show that they are a
> >> >> > sighted person
> >> >> > first, then they can show they are blind and at that point, one
> >> >> > is able to
> >> >> > make blindness something to be desired and interesting, not
> >> >> > repulsive and
> >> >> > weird.
> >> >> > Thank you,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Brandon Keith Biggs
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: Beth
> >> >> > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:01 AM
> >> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Great points, Brandon. As someone who is both blind and
> >> >> > mentally
> >> >> > ill, I understand how it feels to be considered weird. I've
> >> >> > been
> >> >> > called a creep, told by some girl to my boyfriend's face that he
> >> >> > could do better due to my disorder, and then threatened with all
> >> >> > kinds of emotional attack and abuse. Due to blindness, I was
> >> >> > told by the docs I'd be a vegetable. Huh? My dad says I'm a
> >> >> > genius. I don't know, but my last IQ check said I was a 133,
> >> >> > superior without all the visual battery of tests. But then
> >> >> > again, IQ isn't everything. I live in Denver, alone, with no
> >> >> > roommate to pander to my every need. I probably should say that
> >> >> > with the right support and good friends around me, I could
> >> >> > thrive. I could become a "normal" woman, work a "normal" job,
> >> >> > and get "normal" wages. I could take care of children, my own
> >> >> > children, and raise them to be good people, productive citizens
> >> >> > of the United States of America, and I'd look forward to good
> >> >> > days and bad days along the way. My old cane teacher is a
> >> >> > fountain of wisdom when it comes to life's miseries, and the
> >> >> > rapids of life don't get any higher than what they are. I could
> >> >> > get deeper and say that God doesn't put us in a river with
> >> >> > rapids
> >> >> > that could not be handled by the rider. One of the biggest
> >> >> > "whitewater rapids" so to speak is the employment and wages
> >> >> > thing. Brandon and Arielle, you guys make a good point in that
> >> >> > blind people are trained to act like mentally disabled people.
> >> >> > My boyfriend doesn't know money. I wonder if I can possibly
> >> >> > teach him the basics of money management and budgeting. I
> >> >> > struggle with it myself because SSI is too little to live off
> >> >> > of,
> >> >> > and I was given a plane ticket, but not the money for baggage
> >> >> > fees and cab fare to get to and from the airport. So I'm stuck
> >> >> > paying for that. My boyfriend also doesn't know how to keep
> >> >> > track of his own wages, and if he becomes a big-time producer
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > all sorts of rappers who would run to him, I don't know how he's
> >> >> > going to run the household and help me pay my bills too. What
> >> >> > if
> >> >> > I'm incapacitated for real this time? I mean, like, Terry
> >> >> > Shiavo? How's Jason, who I may designate as a healthcare
> >> >> > surrogate, going to make that decision? My hope is that he
> >> >> > won't
> >> >> > have to do that, but if that happens, I need someone that I feel
> >> >> > can be trusted to make the decisions about my bills and stuff.
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > was asked by my boyfriend's mom of all people to help her with
> >> >> > him a bit. Just to think of Jason in the situation he's in just
> >> >> > makes me so sick. I want him to manage his own wages, cook me a
> >> >> > meal if I get sick, and fry me some chicken or grill a burger on
> >> >> > Memorial Day. He has the potential to do those things, and the
> >> >> > weird part is that his parents are open to us having a
> >> >> > relationship. Most disabled people's parents, including but not
> >> >> > limited to my own, are not as open about relations with poorer
> >> >> > people. Both Jason and I are poor, but I think we can live
> >> >> > together successfully with all the right supports, and if we
> >> >> > can't find jobs, so what? We need family support to get by.
> >> >> > But
> >> >> > I really do dream of having my own private house, being able to
> >> >> > manage my bills, being able to buy foods that are nutritious to
> >> >> > my children and so on, and feeding the baby and having Jason
> >> >> > there to have breakfast with in the mornings, and not his old
> >> >> > mother. Not to say she's bad, but it's a dream I want to have.
> >> >> > My mother should not have to manage my money. Yes, I'm not so
> >> >> > good at money management, but I've learned a few lessons like
> >> >> > how
> >> >> > to go back and look at your payment history every time if you
> >> >> > get
> >> >> > suspicious about a charge. Like if the bills are on autopay,
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > have to look back and see if the weird corporate robbers, if I
> >> >> > may use such a cold term, are stealing your money. I felt
> >> >> > Comcast was robbing me of my precious money, and especially this
> >> >> > month
> >> >> > because of a trip, and next month because of a move I have to
> >> >> > do,
> >> >> > I can't afford a $70 internet bill. That's just too much unless
> >> >> > you're really living in low income housing. I know a lot about
> >> >> > disabled or low income housing. Boy, my boyfriend has a lot to
> >> >> > learn, and he'll learn lots while I'm with him. Lots of times,
> >> >> > blind people are sheltered by their parents, and of course, the
> >> >> > parents I had were good parents, no doubt, but they had their
> >> >> > flaws. Jason is lucky in some ways, but his parents said the
> >> >> > same stuff that all sighted people say, "He has it made. We
> >> >> > wait
> >> >> > on him hand and foot ..." And so on. This creates a problem.
> >> >> > Blind people need to not be waited on hand and foot. We can't
> >> >> > necessarily be pandered to our every need like little Veruca
> >> >> > Salt
> >> >> > in charlie and the Chocolate Factory if I may reference a
> >> >> > spoiled
> >> >> > literary figure. We can't be pandered or revered as Helen
> >> >> > Keller
> >> >> > was by her family in her early years. Unlike Jason, Helen was
> >> >> > deaf and in me and Jason's time, jobs are ample, and skills are
> >> >> > ample thanks to technology. With Helen Keller's time, there
> >> >> > were
> >> >> > no jobs open, and marriage and motherhood were closed to Helen.
> >> >> > I as a blind woman am thankful that marriage is open to
> >> >> > me--hence
> >> >> > the boyfriend I currently have--and relationships period. Jobs
> >> >> > and technology have risen while I was growing up. It only seems
> >> >> > like yesterday that I would not be sending this superbly long
> >> >> > email. Thanks to emails and Facebook and Twitter, I feel much
> >> >> > more connected to my friends and family, and especially to my
> >> >> > dear cousin Sarah, but yet she never calls me. Ha ha. But
> >> >> > thanks to cell phones, I can go anywhere and give everyone a
> >> >> > text
> >> >> > message. Imagine poor blind Beth texting! It only seems like
> >> >> > yesterday that my parents didn't think I needed an accessible
> >> >> > phone, but when I fought to get an accessible phone, and my
> >> >> > ex-boyfriend taught me how to write letters on the phone, which
> >> >> > is a skill I still fail at sometimes (lol), I have texted my
> >> >> > friends and I can receive texts from people. I would hate to
> >> >> > change my address, but I do that. I will be in Denver for a
> >> >> > good
> >> >> > while so I can do my college and keep the ducks in a row as I
> >> >> > would hear my mother say. When I get my ducks in a row, I plan
> >> >> > to move on to bigger and better things, and I want to get a job
> >> >> > helping human trafficking victims. Denver has a strong victim
> >> >> > advocate program, but that's only the Muslim Family Services
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > may have that. I'd heard that Atlanta has a big problem with
> >> >> > human trafficking. Well, so do some areas of Florida, but if
> >> >> > there's slavery and trafficking, I'll be there to stop it. I'd
> >> >> > like to give former slaves and prostitutes a chance at life, but
> >> >> > where will I go without a college degree in women's studies and
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > good background in such matters? I was never trafficked, but I
> >> >> > have read countless literature, and have seen it firsthand or
> >> >> > through others, what sorts of cruelty exist in the world.
> >> >> > To keep the message on topic, I want to say that such a job
> >> >> > helping human trafficking victims shouldn't require a social
> >> >> > work
> >> >> > degree, which the doc says I'm too messed up to do. I want to
> >> >> > advise all of us to please take suspicious statements like,
> >> >> > "She's pretending to be a certain ethnic group" or "She's not
> >> >> > fit
> >> >> > to do something because of mental deficiencies." What sort of
> >> >> > nonsensical statements these are! DVR in Colorado doesn't seem
> >> >> > to get it. They tell me I'm too messed up for college but they
> >> >> > don't seem to understand that the importance of college is more
> >> >> > to me than anybody. My brothers are taking college classes, and
> >> >> > they will graduate, marry, and have families as expected. But
> >> >> > what will I do? My parents will dictate who I will marry due to
> >> >> > gender and blindness, they will tell me what talents I have
> >> >> > because I'm so "malleable", as some people think blind people
> >> >> > are, and then my teachers, doctors, psychologists, social
> >> >> > workers, and case managers will either take my babies or let me
> >> >> > keep them with sighted supervision, and so on. But going
> >> >> > through
> >> >> > school is not easy. Brandon, you said school is great, but you
> >> >> > don't realize that as a blind person in a million living in a
> >> >> > small town, nobody cared to dance with me at homecoming or prom.
> >> >> > That's the price I paid for being blind. Nobody cared to offer
> >> >> > me flowers on a date. I didn't have the normal teenager things
> >> >> > that every teenage girl dreams about. If I have a daughter, I
> >> >> > want to dress her up for prom and her wedding day with such
> >> >> > pride
> >> >> > a mother would share with her spouse and daughter alike. My
> >> >> > mother never got that opportunity with me. She would help me
> >> >> > into my chorus dresses, but those were mere obligations to the
> >> >> > school. My mom believed that prom was for dates only, and
> >> >> > summer
> >> >> > jobs? Out of the question. I can't get a good experience if I
> >> >> > am not allowed to work. Titusville is a small town in Florida,
> >> >> > and I and another man were the only blind people in it. I being
> >> >> > the only and youngest blind woman in the town couldn't be
> >> >> > offered
> >> >> > a job. The only jobs offered were at the hospital, where
> >> >> > medical
> >> >> > experience was required, and the Space Center, where engineering
> >> >> > degrees were preferred. My dad can attest to the people he's
> >> >> > interviewed for jobs, and unfortunately, there's not enough
> >> >> > blind
> >> >> > computer engineers, except those in the underground geek
> >> >> > industry
> >> >> > as I like to call it, to go around. We also need to learn to
> >> >> > communicate with others who are sighted, speak their language so
> >> >> > to speak.
> >> >> > Ok, my rant is over.
> >> >> > Beth
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> > Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 23:57:32 -0700
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hello,
> >> >> > I'm sure many people who have talked to me before know what I'm
> >> >> > going to
> >> >> > say...
> >> >> > It's the educational system that many of these problems come
> >> >> > down
> >> >> > to. We
> >> >> > have teachers coming out of school who are not inspired to
> >> >> > create
> >> >> > a new
> >> >> > style of teaching. We have teachers who are never taught about
> >> >> > disabled
> >> >> > students. We have blind students who are never taught how to ask
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > accommodations. We have parents who think being blind is bad!
> >> >> > Honestly, if I could have redone my education as a sighted
> >> >> > person, I would
> >> >> > not have done it. Being blind is such an advantage in the United
> >> >> > States when
> >> >> > going through school. You get extra time on everything, you get
> >> >> > leniency on
> >> >> > all your assignments if you can't finish them on time, you get
> >> >> > free
> >> >> > schooling, you get paid to go through school by SSI, you have so
> >> >> > many
> >> >> > scholarships you can apply for, you can use the law to fight for
> >> >> > accessibility with little retribution, you become great friends
> >> >> > with your
> >> >> > teachers just because you get to talk to them all the time, you
> >> >> > are by
> >> >> > nature a very active participant in your class, you are able to
> >> >> > read your
> >> >> > books 1000 times faster than all of the other students combined,
> >> >> > you're able
> >> >> > to get tutoring for free, you don't have to feel ashamed for
> >> >> > taking
> >> >> > advantage of any of the above benefits because you're disabled
> >> >> > and that's
> >> >> > what you're expected to do!
> >> >> > Also, the expectation of your teachers is rather low and when
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > get 100%
> >> >> > on all their hardest tests they get all embarrassed, people
> >> >> > think
> >> >> > it's
> >> >> > amazing that you're getting strait As when it's nothing,
> >> >> > (Stereotypically)
> >> >> > blind people are very unsocial so they have lots of extra time
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > do school
> >> >> > work, you're able to actually edit your teacher's handouts and
> >> >> > instructions
> >> >> > because Jaws doesn't miss skipped letters, if you have a problem
> >> >> > with your
> >> >> > online test you can blame it on your screen reader crashing the
> >> >> > web browser,
> >> >> > state colleges gobble you up if you have ever taken an honors
> >> >> > class at a
> >> >> > community college and you have good grades and you've written
> >> >> > one
> >> >> > of those
> >> >> > inspiring essays, when you write inspiring essays you can get
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > super
> >> >> > arrogant feeling for a moment and say "That's me in the essay!",
> >> >> > you're able
> >> >> > to participate in all kinds of extra activities through agencies
> >> >> > like Global
> >> >> > explorers or the Light House, you can participate in summer job
> >> >> > programs
> >> >> > like YES1 and YES2 in Washington State, when you go to community
> >> >> > college or
> >> >> > state college you're given a guide through the school because
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > need a
> >> >> > mobility lesson and you have the disability resource person.
> >> >> > I should probably stop, but you get the idea...
> >> >> > It's probably because I was homeschooled for the first few years
> >> >> > of my life
> >> >> > and did all kinds of super awesome things with my overly amazing
> >> >> > parents and
> >> >> > didn't enter public school till 5th grade that I have this view
> >> >> > of school,
> >> >> > but I understood that I could learn in public school and it was
> >> >> > just that
> >> >> > either the teacher wasn't teaching me or that I wasn't equipped
> >> >> > with the
> >> >> > skills or technology that was keeping me from learning.
> >> >> > There are many other factors in learning, like Gardiner's
> >> >> > multiple theory
> >> >> > of intelligences that play a factor in if one learns in school,
> >> >> > but thank
> >> >> > goodness I was able to learn that anyone can learn from anyone,
> >> >> > they just
> >> >> > need to know how they learn and learn that way!
> >> >> > I can give examples, but this email is already super long, so
> >> >> > I'll get off
> >> >> > education.
> >> >> > My point is that most blind people aren?셳 taught about all
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > above things.
> >> >> > I was super lucky because my parents let me run my IEP meetings
> >> >> > and my mom
> >> >> > became a TVI half way through my schooling, but every blind
> >> >> > person needs to
> >> >> > know that school can be amazing! It is worth spending 8-12 years
> >> >> > of your
> >> >> > life there getting your music degree or dentist degree.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Another factor is that disabled people are fit into even a
> >> >> > tighter mold of
> >> >> > what they are to be when disabled people are the most unique of
> >> >> > anyone.
> >> >> > Blind people do not belong in special ed classes because they
> >> >> > don't need
> >> >> > special ed. Special ed teachers are people who teach extreme
> >> >> > cases of
> >> >> > autistic or other mentally disabled people. If a blind person is
> >> >> > put into
> >> >> > that environment and they don't need it, they will go insane!
> >> >> > It's like if
> >> >> > Stephen Hawking would have been born totally disabled and people
> >> >> > stuck him
> >> >> > into special ed just because he can't talk!
> >> >> > Where would cosmology be?
> >> >> > Sadly it's those who break out of the mold and assimilate their
> >> >> > own way into
> >> >> > sighted culture in order to evade the label of mentally disabled
> >> >> > that are
> >> >> > fighting for these rights.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I keep on telling people that if someone is considered weird
> >> >> > it's
> >> >> > not them
> >> >> > that's weird, it's you who's weird for thinking that they're
> >> >> > weird. It's
> >> >> > like you thinking the person in front of you is going through
> >> >> > time the same
> >> >> > way you are!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sadly the world is not reasonable, so we have to shuck reason
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > go for
> >> >> > emotion. That's why we write all the super inspiring essays and
> >> >> > that's why
> >> >> > we have to assimilate into the sighted world.
> >> >> > Those who end up working in low under minimum wage jobs have
> >> >> > probably not
> >> >> > learned how to assimilate enough to pass off as "normal" in the
> >> >> > sighted
> >> >> > community, so that's probably why they can't get the entry level
> >> >> > jobs.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Before someone gives the line about not needing to be anything
> >> >> > other than
> >> >> > blind because we are blind, let me just say that most of this
> >> >> > world likes to
> >> >> > think they are sighted and normal. Most people like to walk with
> >> >> > the crowd.
> >> >> > Those who never learn to walk with the crowd are considered
> >> >> > weird, those who
> >> >> > learn how to walk with the crowd then figure out how to rise
> >> >> > above it are
> >> >> > considered great.
> >> >> > Thanks,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Brandon Keith Biggs
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: Arielle Silverman
> >> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:27 PM
> >> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hi Brandon,
> >> >> > These are all good points. I like your statement about blind
> >> >> > people
> >> >> > who are "nurtured to act like they are mentally disabled" as I
> >> >> > have
> >> >> > met a few people who unfortunately seem to fit that description.
> >> >> > The problem is that there is no objective test to determine what
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > person is or is not capable of doing. Even so-called objective
> >> >> > tests
> >> >> > like IQ tests are incredibly biased and don't account for
> >> >> > environmental factors that artificially limit people's abilities
> >> >> > or
> >> >> > knowledge, like what is expected of them by parents and
> >> >> > teachers,
> >> >> > or
> >> >> > what skills they are or are not taught. There is research
> >> >> > showing
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > when people are expected to behave or perform in a certain way,
> >> >> > they
> >> >> > tend to fulfill that expectation (this is called a
> >> >> > "self-fulfilling
> >> >> > prophesy; if you're interested in the research, look up
> >> >> > "Pygmalian
> >> >> > effect"). So when teachers are randomly told that some kids are
> >> >> > smarter than others, they tend to treat those "smart" kids
> >> >> > differently
> >> >> > without even realizing it and eventually the "smart" kids end up
> >> >> > performing better than the other kids. The reverse pattern too
> >> >> > often
> >> >> > happens with disabilities. People have so many assumptions about
> >> >> > how
> >> >> > disabilities limit potential, and people in authority can act in
> >> >> > ways
> >> >> > that make those assumptions come true.
> >> >> > I also agree that people with disabilities would be much more
> >> >> > productive in sheltered jobs if they did work that was
> >> >> > intrinsically
> >> >> > interesting to them and if the work was in a field they were
> >> >> > actually
> >> >> > good at. It is common knowledge that people of all ages and
> >> >> > mental
> >> >> > abilities will do a better job at any task if they find the task
> >> >> > enjoyable and motivating. Too often, sheltered jobs are simply
> >> >> > too
> >> >> > boring to really engage people. Also, people with disabilities
> >> >> > have
> >> >> > their own talents that are rarely utilized in sheltered jobs. I
> >> >> > have
> >> >> > figured out that if I were forced to do a sheltered workshop
> >> >> > job,
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > would probably be the one losing them money if they paid me at
> >> >> > minimum
> >> >> > wage, because I have never been good at making stuff with my
> >> >> > hands or
> >> >> > using machines. Not only would I be bored to tears, but I just
> >> >> > wouldn't be good at it. I am much better at writing and thinking
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > doing math, so I hope that society will let me use those skills
> >> >> > instead of forcing me to do work I'm not skilled at.
> >> >> > Regarding your comment about unemployment among the blind, it is
> >> >> > true
> >> >> > that many fields are accessible to the blind these days, yet the
> >> >> > unemployment rate is still staggering. There are many reasons
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > unemployment among the blind. I think one reason is that
> >> >> > employers
> >> >> > want to hire applicants with relevant experience, and in many
> >> >> > fields,
> >> >> > the entry-level position that people get at first to gain
> >> >> > experience
> >> >> > isn't accessible to the blind. This might not be true with
> >> >> > programming, but in some fields it is really hard to get your
> >> >> > foot in
> >> >> > the door even if it's easier to work at higher levels. For
> >> >> > example,
> >> >> > before becoming a teacher, you need to do student teaching,
> >> >> > which
> >> >> > means you are working under someone else who might not use
> >> >> > accessible
> >> >> > materials or who will doubt your ability to do the job. Without
> >> >> > experience, it's harder to allay people's initial discriminatory
> >> >> > doubts and fears about hiring a blind person. Also, even within
> >> >> > an
> >> >> > accessible field, individual employers might use materials that
> >> >> > aren't
> >> >> > accessible to the blind. So even though programming is very
> >> >> > accessible, if some employers require you to use languages or
> >> >> > scripts
> >> >> > that aren't accessible, this will limit job options.
> >> >> > Arielle
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 6/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > Hello,
> >> >> > It's a tricky situation. We can't really say what it's like
> >> >> > being mentally
> >> >> > disabled and it's hard to say what mentally disabled can or can
> >> >> > not do. We
> >> >> > also can't tell if the blind who are nurtured to act like
> >> >> > mentally
> >> >> > disabled
> >> >> > people really are mentally disabled.
> >> >> > *That's a mouthful!*
> >> >> > I am of the opinion that mentally disabled people are way under
> >> >> > employed
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > jobs like Goodwill are completely the wrong job for many of
> >> >> > them. But I'm
> >> >> > not a professional and I can only say from personal experience
> >> >> > that many
> >> >> > mentally disabled people can do what they want quite well and
> >> >> > often it's
> >> >> > because they are babied and misunderstood that they are
> >> >> > pressured into
> >> >> > doing jobs they aren?셳 good at.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I do wonder the need of blind adults to be working at good will
> >> >> > in the
> >> >> > first
> >> >> > place though when it's not that hard learning programming and
> >> >> > it's pretty
> >> >> > easy to get reeducated for free in the United States as a blind
> >> >> > person. If
> >> >> > your career isn't working out, I don't see why one wouldn't just
> >> >> > take a
> >> >> > class at their community college and change their job. I believe
> >> >> > SSI is
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > college students and those fresh out of college, or for a back
> >> >> > up when
> >> >> > work
> >> >> > isn't coming. I am still a student, but I know I have for sure
> >> >> > jobs if I
> >> >> > go
> >> >> > into programming or being a TVI. So other than the moral
> >> >> > issues, I'm not
> >> >> > sure why capable blind people are working at goodwill.
> >> >> > Thanks,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Brandon Keith Biggs
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: Arielle Silverman
> >> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 8:32 PM
> >> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hi all,
> >> >> > I don't shop at Goodwill either, but I was regularly donating
> >> >> > items
> >> >> > like used clothes to Goodwill, and my parents do as well. A
> >> >> > customer
> >> >> > boycott might not matter much but a donor boycott would probably
> >> >> > hurt
> >> >> > them considerably. I have to say I found Justin's arguments very
> >> >> > persuasive. I just hope that if we boycott all branches
> >> >> > nationally, we
> >> >> > make it very clear that what we want is a change to national
> >> >> > policy.
> >> >> > Interestingly, I used to rent an apartment from a woman (I'll
> >> >> > call her
> >> >> > S) whose full-time job was to be a live-in caretaker for a woman
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > Down's syndrome and significant mental retardation (I'll call
> >> >> > her C).
> >> >> > Since I rented the apartment right below theirs, I got to know
> >> >> > both S
> >> >> > and C quite well and learned a bit about C's situation.
> >> >> > Apparently C
> >> >> > is employed by a program for people with intellectual
> >> >> > disabilities
> >> >> > similar to Goodwill's but it wasn't Goodwill itself. I think S.
> >> >> > told
> >> >> > me that C. was paid around $1 per hour for doing an extremely
> >> >> > menial
> >> >> > job although I don't remember what that job was exactly.
> >> >> > However, I
> >> >> > don't think C. had any living expenses at all because she lived
> >> >> > rent-free with S. She may have been helping pay for groceries.
> >> >> > The
> >> >> > program she was in was very custodial and I'm not sure she even
> >> >> > had
> >> >> > independent access to the money she earned at her job.
> >> >> > I don't think I can really judge whether people with
> >> >> > disabilities like
> >> >> > C.'s are capable of living without custodial care or spending
> >> >> > their
> >> >> > own money, any more than a deaf person should be able to judge
> >> >> > how
> >> >> > independent blind people can be. I do suspect that people like
> >> >> > C.
> >> >> > would achieve more if they were held to higher expectations, and
> >> >> > higher expectations should come with higher wages and more
> >> >> > freedom.
> >> >> > I definitely believe that anyone who lives independently should
> >> >> > be
> >> >> > paid at least the minimum wage, and I think it is clear that
> >> >> > blindness
> >> >> > by itself doesn't prevent anyone from living independently
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >> nabs-l:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> > nabs-l:
> >> >
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>
More information about the NABS-L
mailing list