[nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Sun Jun 10 20:47:04 UTC 2012

Hi,
Personal finance is not taught in public schools. I come from an affluent 
county and we are rated one of the best in the nation and our schools did 
not have that class. They had economics as an elective though.
Personal finance and socializing are something that one is supposed to learn 
on their own through experience.
We are at a disadvantage as we do not see how others act or what they wear 
to certain events. But we can get that through asking and observing with 
other senses.
Beth, Brandon gave good advice. See that Jason
learns living skills and other coping skills before you live with him! And 
don't think of marriage til you are out of school.

Anyway, good points, but lets change subject lines as this has nothing to do 
with good will.
Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:53 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Hello Beth,
let me first say that judging by your emails you definitely have enough
reasoning and writing ability to get what ever degree you wish. If you've
read literature on human trafficking you have seen the worst. They shelter
you in schools because they don't want to get sued. That doctor definitely
has no idea what he's talking about. If I were you, I'd go to school and get
that counseling degree, then invite that doctor to my graduation! If money
is an issue, DOR and the state often have programs that can fully cover the
cost of school, minus housing and food.
Don't worry, you sound lots better informed than many people that I know
about personal finance. I was looking at the Hadley Business section and I
was really wondering why they didn't have personal finance and investing. I
don't know anyone other than brokers who have the education to really make
something of their money. Sadly though, personal finance is one of those
things that are expected one learns on their own. Like speaking and
socializing, it should just be a given that everyone knows about how to find
banks with high interest rates and low fees, everyone knows how to budget
effectively, everyone knows how to find the best deals on food and clothing,
and no one needs any help on running a family in school.
My communication teacher in school said that 99% of all the students that
come to her class have never had a communication class in their life, yet
100% of her students have had to communicate.
We are both a little baffled at this logic, but that's how life is I
guess...?
Personally I've found that those who have the most power over people in this
world are those with money and those with exceptional communication skills.
I would recommend everyone move to the Bay area here in CA and go to
Foothill College. The teachers there are exceptional and the disability
center is the best in the west. They also give oober scholarships to those
students who come off as serious students *Points at his 9 grand in
scholarships*.
Also, you don't need DOR to pay for any part of school, as one can get
renewable scholarships at a community college to pay for every part of
school, except for $47 by just being on SSI.
Beth, Here in the bay area we have a giant human trafficking problem as we
are one of the major connection points for overseas travel. It's on the
radio lots how they've caught slavers here and there, but besides that, the
Bay Area is so much for women's studies, I've not seen any general college
that doesn't offer a degree in women's studies.
If I were anyone, I would totally move here to SF or go to NY, because not
only is the blindness support so great, but public transportation is the
best in the nation for both those places.
But enough on me pushing SF...!
Beth, your boyfriend sounds like he could do with a liberal dose of Daily
living skills. Here where I live, there is a center called the "Vista
Center" and DOR contracts out teachers to help you become independent. I
love those teachers, because with their help, I was able to move out on my
own when I was 18.
I believe the Light House also has programs like this, and Justin was saying
something about attending a program that also teaches living skills. But my
teacher says she encounters two types of people. There are those who go
above and beyond what they were asked and actually do what they were taught
on their own, then there are those who do the minimum possible. They expect
everything to be spoon fed to them. The first group are the ones who
generally make it in the world as successful individuals. Beth, if I were
you, I'd have a down to earth talk with your Boyfriend, letting him know
that as it stands people don't believe in his ability to take care of
himself. He may think that he could take care of himself, but you can let
him know that he will have to prove it first. If he agrees, than it's time
to look for a daily living skills teacher. If not, he may want to be sent to
one of the independent living facilities, so he can see first hand why he
must learn living skills in order to be free.
I don't believe marriage should be really talked about until after your
Boyfriend proves his stuff. Because Beth, you've got your life to live and
you should not be forced to live for two people which you would be doing if
you married and moved out with your boyfriend as things are now.

I know what you mean about not going to prom. I never went to prom with a
girl when I was in High school. I actually didn't get a girlfriend till my
last year of High School and I broke up with her 5 months later. I didn't
have another till a little over a year after that. It was with that second
girlfriend that I went to prom. Frankly, school dances are the worst things
since the invention of eyes.
If you like loud music beating so loud that you can't hear yourself think,
let alone hear your date talking, and if you like being squeezed together on
all sides by grinding individuals, and if you're being shown how to dance by
your partner, the only word I can label this, is hell.
The romantic things before and after the dance are great, but the dance
itself is terrible. So let me assure you that except for the romantic part,
you did not miss much at the prom. They didn't even play the Blue Danube at
the prom I went to! I thought that was required in order to have a dance to
call themselves a dance?
anyways, in my opinion the education is much more important when you're
going through school than the social aspects. In college though, guys become
much smarter and women become way more emotionally sound, just because they
have lived and learned much more through their life.
Most of the girls I've thought about dating have not been mature enough in
some aspect of their life. My last girlfriend was too immature when it came
to being focused and I learned the hard way that you should never expect
people to change. So part of my problem about having a small social life is
that even now, I find that the women I'm attracted to are still much to
immature in some way for any kind of relationship to work.
But for high school, I was not socially mature and even now I'm not socially
mature enough to really fit in the sighted world. This is the biggest
problem I've found, blind people are not able to pass themselves off as good
relationship material in the sighted world. If the world was only blind this
would be different, but because we live in a sight run culture, being able
to be socially mature to those who are sighted is crucial if one wants to
make it in anything other than strictly working in something like the NFB or
Goodwill.
We have to work extra hard at understanding what sighted people think and
how sighted people do things in order to live as the sighted people. Once
we're able to pass ourselves off enough so no one believes we're blind, we
should then and only then, begin to emphasize the fact that we are blind.
Because if we establish to people that we're blind first, they will look no
farther than our disability. In sighted human evolution, being disabled is
repulsive and we've got to fight against nature in order to do anything in
the sighted world. Once one is able to show that they are a sighted person
first, then they can show they are blind and at that point, one is able to
make blindness something to be desired and interesting, not repulsive and
weird.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Beth
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:01 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Great points, Brandon.  As someone who is both blind and mentally
ill, I understand how it feels to be considered weird.  I've been
called a creep, told by some girl to my boyfriend's face that he
could do better due to my disorder, and then threatened with all
kinds of emotional attack and abuse.  Due to blindness, I was
told by the docs I'd be a vegetable.  Huh?  My dad says I'm a
genius.  I don't know, but my last IQ check said I was a 133,
superior without all the visual battery of tests.  But then
again, IQ isn't everything.  I live in Denver, alone, with no
roommate to pander to my every need.  I probably should say that
with the right support and good friends around me, I could
thrive.  I could become a "normal" woman, work a "normal" job,
and get "normal" wages.  I could take care of children, my own
children, and raise them to be good people, productive citizens
of the United States of America, and I'd look forward to good
days and bad days along the way.  My old cane teacher is a
fountain of wisdom when it comes to life's miseries, and the
rapids of life don't get any higher than what they are.  I could
get deeper and say that God doesn't put us in a river with rapids
that could not be handled by the rider.  One of the biggest
"whitewater rapids" so to speak is the employment and wages
thing.  Brandon and Arielle, you guys make a good point in that
blind people are trained to act like mentally disabled people.
My boyfriend doesn't know money.  I wonder if I can possibly
teach him the basics of money management and budgeting.  I
struggle with it myself because SSI is too little to live off of,
and I was given a plane ticket, but not the money for baggage
fees and cab fare to get to and from the airport.  So I'm stuck
paying for that.  My boyfriend also doesn't know how to keep
track of his own wages, and if he becomes a big-time producer for
all sorts of rappers who would run to him, I don't know how he's
going to run the household and help me pay my bills too.  What if
I'm incapacitated for real this time?  I mean, like, Terry
Shiavo?  How's Jason, who I may designate as a healthcare
surrogate, going to make that decision?  My hope is that he won't
have to do that, but if that happens, I need someone that I feel
can be trusted to make the decisions about my bills and stuff.  I
was asked by my boyfriend's mom of all people to help her with
him a bit.  Just to think of Jason in the situation he's in just
makes me so sick.  I want him to manage his own wages, cook me a
meal if I get sick, and fry me some chicken or grill a burger on
Memorial Day.  He has the potential to do those things, and the
weird part is that his parents are open to us having a
relationship.  Most disabled people's parents, including but not
limited to my own, are not as open about relations with poorer
people.  Both Jason and I are poor, but I think we can live
together successfully with all the right supports, and if we
can't find jobs, so what?  We need family support to get by.  But
I really do dream of having my own private house, being able to
manage my bills, being able to buy foods that are nutritious to
my children and so on, and feeding the baby and having Jason
there to have breakfast with in the mornings, and not his old
mother.  Not to say she's bad, but it's a dream I want to have.
My mother should not have to manage my money.  Yes, I'm not so
good at money management, but I've learned a few lessons like how
to go back and look at your payment history every time if you get
suspicious about a charge.  Like if the bills are on autopay, you
have to look back and see if the weird corporate robbers, if I
may use such a cold term, are stealing your money.  I felt
Comcast was robbing me of my precious money, and especially this
month
because of a trip, and next month because of a move I have to do,
I can't afford a $70 internet bill.  That's just too much unless
you're really living in low income housing.  I know a lot about
disabled or low income housing.  Boy, my boyfriend has a lot to
learn, and he'll learn lots while I'm with him.  Lots of times,
blind people are sheltered by their parents, and of course, the
parents I had were good parents, no doubt, but they had their
flaws.  Jason is lucky in some ways, but his parents said the
same stuff that all sighted people say, "He has it made.  We wait
on him hand and foot ..."  And so on.  This creates a problem.
Blind people need to not be waited on hand and foot.  We can't
necessarily be pandered to our every need like little Veruca Salt
in charlie and the Chocolate Factory if I may reference a spoiled
literary figure.  We can't be pandered or revered as Helen Keller
was by her family in her early years.  Unlike Jason, Helen was
deaf and in me and Jason's time, jobs are ample, and skills are
ample thanks to technology.  With Helen Keller's time, there were
no jobs open, and marriage and motherhood were closed to Helen.
I as a blind woman am thankful that marriage is open to me--hence
the boyfriend I currently have--and relationships period.  Jobs
and technology have risen while I was growing up.  It only seems
like yesterday that I would not be sending this superbly long
email.  Thanks to emails and Facebook and Twitter, I feel much
more connected to my friends and family, and especially to my
dear cousin Sarah, but yet she never calls me.  Ha ha.  But
thanks to cell phones, I can go anywhere and give everyone a text
message.  Imagine poor blind Beth texting!  It only seems like
yesterday that my parents didn't think I needed an accessible
phone, but when I fought to get an accessible phone, and my
ex-boyfriend taught me how to write letters on the phone, which
is a skill I still fail at sometimes (lol), I have texted my
friends and I can receive texts from people.  I would hate to
change my address, but I do that.  I will be in Denver for a good
while so I can do my college and keep the ducks in a row as I
would hear my mother say.  When I get my ducks in a row, I plan
to move on to bigger and better things, and I want to get a job
helping human trafficking victims.  Denver has a strong victim
advocate program, but that's only the Muslim Family Services that
may have that.  I'd heard that Atlanta has a big problem with
human trafficking.  Well, so do some areas of Florida, but if
there's slavery and trafficking, I'll be there to stop it.  I'd
like to give former slaves and prostitutes a chance at life, but
where will I go without a college degree in women's studies and a
good background in such matters?  I was never trafficked, but I
have read countless literature, and have seen it firsthand or
through others, what sorts of cruelty exist in the world.
To keep the message on topic, I want to say that such a job
helping human trafficking victims shouldn't require a social work
degree, which the doc says I'm too messed up to do.  I want to
advise all of us to please take suspicious statements like,
"She's pretending to be a certain ethnic group" or "She's not fit
to do something because of mental deficiencies."  What sort of
nonsensical statements these are!  DVR in Colorado doesn't seem
to get it.  They tell me I'm too messed up for college but they
don't seem to understand that the importance of college is more
to me than anybody.  My brothers are taking college classes, and
they will graduate, marry, and have families as expected.  But
what will I do?  My parents will dictate who I will marry due to
gender and blindness, they will tell me what talents I have
because I'm so "malleable", as some people think blind people
are, and then my teachers, doctors, psychologists, social
workers, and case managers will either take my babies or let me
keep them with sighted supervision, and so on.  But going through
school is not easy.  Brandon, you said school is great, but you
don't realize that as a blind person in a million living in a
small town, nobody cared to dance with me at homecoming or prom.
That's the price I paid for being blind.  Nobody cared to offer
me flowers on a date.  I didn't have the normal teenager things
that every teenage girl dreams about.  If I have a daughter, I
want to dress her up for prom and her wedding day with such pride
a mother would share with her spouse and daughter alike.  My
mother never got that opportunity with me.  She would help me
into my chorus dresses, but those were mere obligations to the
school.  My mom believed that prom was for dates only, and summer
jobs?  Out of the question.  I can't get a good experience if I
am not allowed to work.  Titusville is a small town in Florida,
and I and another man were the only blind people in it.  I being
the only and youngest blind woman in the town couldn't be offered
a job.  The only jobs offered were at the hospital, where medical
experience was required, and the Space Center, where engineering
degrees were preferred.  My dad can attest to the people he's
interviewed for jobs, and unfortunately, there's not enough blind
computer engineers, except those in the underground geek industry
as I like to call it, to go around.  We also need to learn to
communicate with others who are sighted, speak their language so
to speak.
Ok, my rant is over.
Beth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 23:57:32 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Hello,
I'm sure many people who have talked to me before know what I'm
going to
say...
It's the educational system that many of these problems come down
to. We
have teachers coming out of school who are not inspired to create
a new
style of teaching. We have teachers who are never taught about
disabled
students. We have blind students who are never taught how to ask
for
accommodations. We have parents who think being blind is bad!
Honestly, if I could have redone my education as a sighted
person, I would
not have done it. Being blind is such an advantage in the United
States when
going through school. You get extra time on everything, you get
leniency on
all your assignments if you can't finish them on time, you get
free
schooling, you get paid to go through school by SSI, you have so
many
scholarships you can apply for, you can use the law to fight for
accessibility with little retribution, you become great friends
with your
teachers just because you get to talk to them all the time, you
are by
nature a very active participant in your class, you are able to
read your
books 1000 times faster than all of the other students combined,
you're able
to get tutoring for free, you don't have to feel ashamed for
taking
advantage of any of the above benefits because you're disabled
and that's
what you're expected to do!
Also, the expectation of your teachers is rather low and when you
get 100%
on all their hardest tests they get all embarrassed, people think
it's
amazing that you're getting strait As when it's nothing,
(Stereotypically)
blind people are very unsocial so they have lots of extra time to
do school
work, you're able to actually edit your teacher's handouts and
instructions
because Jaws doesn't miss skipped letters, if you have a problem
with your
online test you can blame it on your screen reader crashing the
web browser,
state colleges gobble you up if you have ever taken an honors
class at a
community college and you have good grades and you've written one
of those
inspiring essays, when you write inspiring essays you can get the
super
arrogant feeling for a moment and say "That's me in the essay!",
you're able
to participate in all kinds of extra activities through agencies
like Global
explorers or the Light House, you can participate in summer job
programs
like YES1 and YES2 in Washington State, when you go to community
college or
state college you're given a guide through the school because you
need a
mobility lesson and you have the disability resource person..
I should probably stop, but you get the idea...
It's probably because I was homeschooled for the first few years
of my life
and did all kinds of super awesome things with my overly amazing
parents and
didn't enter public school till 5th grade that I have this view
of school,
but I understood that I could learn in public school and it was
just that
either the teacher wasn't teaching me or that I wasn't equipped
with the
skills or technology that was keeping me from learning.
There are many other factors in learning, like Gardiner's
multiple  theory
of intelligences that play a factor in if one learns in school,
but thank
goodness I was able to learn that anyone can learn from anyone,
they just
need to know how they learn and learn that way!
I can give examples, but this email is already super long, so
I'll get off
education.
My point is that most blind people aren?™t taught about all the
above things.
I was super lucky because my parents let me run my IEP meetings
and my mom
became a TVI half way through my schooling, but every blind
person needs to
know that school can be amazing! It is worth spending 8-12 years
of your
life there getting your music degree or dentist degree.

Another factor is that disabled people are fit into even a
tighter mold of
what they are to be when disabled people are the most unique of
anyone.
Blind people do not belong in special ed classes because they
don't need
special ed. Special ed teachers are people who teach extreme
cases of
autistic or other mentally disabled people. If a blind person is
put into
that environment and they don't need it, they will go insane!
It's like if
Stephen Hawking would have been born totally disabled and people
stuck him
into special ed just because he can't talk!
Where would cosmology be?
Sadly it's those who break out of the mold and assimilate their
own way into
sighted culture in order to evade the label of mentally disabled
that are
fighting for these rights.

I keep on telling people that if someone is considered weird it's
not them
that's weird, it's you who's weird for thinking that they're
weird. It's
like you thinking the person in front of you is going through
time the same
way you are!

Sadly the world is not reasonable, so we have to shuck reason and
go for
emotion. That's why we write all the super inspiring essays and
that's why
we have to assimilate into the sighted world.
Those who end up working in low under minimum wage jobs have
probably not
learned how to assimilate enough to pass off as "normal" in the
sighted
community, so that's probably why they can't get the entry level
jobs.

Before someone gives the line about not needing to be anything
other than
blind because we are blind, let me just say that most of this
world likes to
think they are sighted and normal. Most people like to walk with
the crowd.
Those who never learn to walk with the crowd are considered
weird, those who
learn how to walk with the crowd then figure out how to rise
above it are
considered great.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Hi Brandon,
These are all good points. I like your statement about blind
people
who are "nurtured to act like they are mentally disabled" as I
have
met a few people who unfortunately seem to fit that description.
The problem is that there is no objective test to determine what
a
person is or is not capable of doing. Even so-called objective
tests
like IQ tests are incredibly biased and don't account for
environmental factors that artificially limit people's abilities
or
knowledge, like what is expected of them by parents and teachers,
or
what skills they are or are not taught. There is research showing
that
when people are expected to behave or perform in a certain way,
they
tend to fulfill that expectation (this is called a
"self-fulfilling
prophesy; if you're interested in the research, look up
"Pygmalian
effect"). So when teachers are randomly told that some kids are
smarter than others, they tend to treat those "smart" kids
differently
without even realizing it and eventually the "smart" kids end up
performing better than the other kids. The reverse pattern too
often
happens with disabilities. People have so many assumptions about
how
disabilities limit potential, and people in authority can act in
ways
that make those assumptions come true.
I also agree that people with disabilities would be much more
productive in sheltered jobs if they did work that was
intrinsically
interesting to them and if the work was in a field they were
actually
good at. It is common knowledge that people of all ages and
mental
abilities will do a better job at any task if they find the task
enjoyable and motivating. Too often, sheltered jobs are simply
too
boring to really engage people. Also, people with disabilities
have
their own talents that are rarely utilized in sheltered jobs. I
have
figured out that if I were forced to do a sheltered workshop job,
I
would probably be the one losing them money if they paid me at
minimum
wage, because I have never been good at making stuff with my
hands or
using machines. Not only would I be bored to tears, but I just
wouldn't be good at it. I am much better at writing and thinking
and
doing math, so I hope that society will let me use those skills
instead of forcing me to do work I'm not skilled at.
Regarding your comment about unemployment among the blind, it is
true
that many fields are accessible to the blind these days, yet the
unemployment rate is still staggering. There are many reasons for
unemployment among the blind. I think one reason is that
employers
want to hire applicants with relevant experience, and in many
fields,
the entry-level position that people get at first to gain
experience
isn't accessible to the blind. This might not be true with
programming, but in some fields it is really hard to get your
foot in
the door even if it's easier to work at higher levels. For
example,
before becoming a teacher, you need to do student teaching, which
means you are working under someone else who might not use
accessible
materials or who will doubt your ability to do the job. Without
experience, it's harder to allay people's initial discriminatory
doubts and fears about hiring a blind person. Also, even within
an
accessible field, individual employers might use materials that
aren't
accessible to the blind. So even though programming is very
accessible, if some employers require you to use languages or
scripts
that aren't accessible, this will limit job options.
Arielle

On 6/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello,
It's a tricky situation. We can't really say what it's like
being mentally
disabled and it's hard to say what mentally disabled can or can
not do. We
also can't tell if the blind who are nurtured to act like
mentally
disabled
people really are mentally  disabled.
*That's a mouthful!*
I am of the opinion that mentally disabled people are way under
employed
and
jobs like Goodwill are completely the wrong job for many of
them. But I'm
not a professional and I can only say from personal experience
that many
mentally disabled people can do what they want quite well and
often it's
because they are babied and misunderstood  that they are
pressured into
doing jobs they aren?™t good at.

I do wonder the need of blind adults to be working at good will
in the
first
place though when it's not that hard learning programming and
it's pretty
easy to get reeducated for free in the United States as a blind
person. If
your career isn't working out, I don't see why one wouldn't just
take a
class at their community college and change their job. I believe
SSI is
for
college students and those fresh out of college, or for a back
up when
work
isn't coming. I am still a student, but I know I have for sure
jobs if I
go
into programming or being a TVI. So other than the moral
issues, I'm not
sure why capable blind people are working at goodwill.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 8:32 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Hi all,
I don't shop at Goodwill either, but I was regularly donating
items
like used clothes to Goodwill, and my parents do as well. A
customer
boycott might not matter much but a donor boycott would probably
hurt
them considerably. I have to say I found Justin's arguments very
persuasive. I just hope that if we boycott all branches
nationally, we
make it very clear that what we want is a change to national
policy.
Interestingly, I used to rent an apartment from a woman (I'll
call her
S) whose full-time job was to be a live-in caretaker for a woman
with
Down's syndrome and significant mental retardation (I'll call
her C).
Since I rented the apartment right below theirs, I got to know
both S
and C quite well and learned a bit about C's situation.
Apparently C
is employed by a program for people with intellectual
disabilities
similar to Goodwill's but it wasn't Goodwill itself. I think S.
told
me that C. was paid around $1 per hour for doing an extremely
menial
job although I don't remember what that job was exactly.
However, I
don't think C. had any living expenses at all because she lived
rent-free with S. She may have been helping pay for groceries.
The
program she was in was very custodial and I'm not sure she even
had
independent access to the money she earned at her job.
I don't think I can really judge whether people with
disabilities like
C.'s are capable of living without custodial care or spending
their
own money, any more than a deaf person should be able to judge
how
independent blind people can be. I do suspect that people like
C.
would achieve more if they were held to higher expectations, and
higher expectations should come with higher wages and more
freedom.
I definitely believe that anyone who lives independently should
be
paid at least the minimum wage, and I think it is clear that
blindness
by itself doesn't prevent anyone from living independently.
However, I
do wonder if minimum wage is necessary for those who don't have
living
expenses or who don't manage their own finances because they are
living in custodial care situations. I'm sure there are people
in
these custodial arrangements who shouldn't be there, but that
almost
sounds like a separate issue. These people aren't in custodial
care
because they are earning low wages, but because their parents or
others acting on their behalf have decided they don't have the
intellect or the maturity to make adult decisions. Again, this
should
never be said about people who are just blind without other
disabilities. As far as intellectual disabilities go, in some
cases
this judgment might be right; in other cases it might be wrong.
But if
someone is clearly not able to manage adult expenses, should
they be
paid adult wages? It's tricky.
I can also understand the argument that if noncompetitive
employment
programs for the disabled raise wages, they can't hire as many
workers. This ultimately means that instead of a bunch of
disabled
workers earning crappy wages, some will earn a decent wage and
others
will earn nothing. Of course, we hope that the reduction in
noncompetitive jobs might bring more disabled workers into the
competitive job market. A mandatory minimum wage would also
force
companies with high salaries at the top to redistribute their
payscale
more fairly.
Arielle

On 6/9/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
I agree, Humberto, and I hope what you say comes true. However,
there's a
lot of change we need to make in order for this to happen. Even
if we
overturn the subminimum wage provision, and I hope and pray that
we do,
we
can't possibly tell employers that they have to hire people with
disabilities. So, we need to change the beliefs and the
attidudes of
society, including employers, about the competence of blind
people. I
know,
it's a big job, but I think we've made a lot of progress so far.

Just my thoughts,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Humberto Avila
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 10:10 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Hello, I agree with this as well. I hope that by doing the
boycott to
this
company, in the national / universal spectrum, we are able to
put
pressure
on employers, and on other companies and corporations, as well
as
organizations who pay subminimum wages. We could eventually end
up
spreading the word of stopping companies to pay subminimum wages
and they
could even see that people with disabilities and including blind
people
are
capable of being paid like the sighted population. If potential
employers
see this change happening, those employers will have a light
bulb lit up,
and will be able to see that blind people are competent, then
will hire
them. Then we can make more change. I see this happening, from
my
personal
opinion. Let's hope that the NFB does this.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 6:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Justin,

I agree with the points you've made. If Goodwill was boycotted
universally,
it would put more pressure on them to pay their disabled workers
fair
wages. Plus, if Goodwill developed a centralized wage policy and
gave
their
workers fair wages, other corporations might follow their lead.

  ----- Original Message -----
From: Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu
To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun
2012
23:19:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

One more note: I think that local business decision-makers
within
Goodwill
Industries would be educated/led to philosophical change simply
by the
fact
that the corporate leaders of Goodwill Industries adopted a
universal
fair
wage policy (if they did), so that would help with the
education, too.

Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

ë°¡ever doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens
can change the world; indeed, itë?the only thing that ever
has.?
ë¾ARGARET MEAD
________________________________________
From: Justin Salisbury
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 7:13 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Goodwill Boycott

Arielle, Gabe, and all:

I like the point that you've made about the decentralized wage
policies
and
rewarding good locations, but do you think that perhaps a
benefit to
boycotting universally would be a possibility that Goodwill
Industries
would create a centralized
(universal) policy that all locations must pay their workers
fair wages?

I feel like the end result that we want is for Goodwill
Industries to
adopt
a universal standard of paying all workers fair wages, and the
approach
that you all have mentioned seems to me to address the decisions
in
individual locations.  I do understand the point of leading
local
business
leaders to undergo philosophical change and choose to pay their
workers
fair wages, but which item is the top priority: education of
individuals
or

achievement of fair wages?   That's not a rhetorical question; I
want to hear opinions on it.

Justin

Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

ë°¡ever doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens
can change the world; indeed, itë?the only thing that ever
has.?
ë¾ARGARET MEAD

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