[nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
Sophie Trist
sweetpeareader at gmail.com
Sun Jun 10 16:26:50 UTC 2012
I was very fortunate to have a good TVI for most of my life, but
when Hurricane Katrina hit, I was forced to leave home and attend
a school for the blind. I was shocked at how horrible it was. On
my first day there, I was taken to a VI class and asked to read a
braille book so that they could evaluate my skills. Within five
minutes, they sent me right back to class. The TVI's there had
nothing new to teach me. I was in a third/fourth-grade class, and
the work was first-grade level. This boils down to we need better
TVI's and more of them.
----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 02:11:25 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
Wow!
You're right!
I didn't have a real TVI, for 6/12th grade.
My TVI, (So called,) was a special Ed teacher, who ended up
getting
trained as a TVI.
If she wasn't there to help me, guess where I was forced to go!
Yup!
Special Ed classes!
Of course, I enjoyed it, because the instructor knew I didn't
need to
be there, so she allowed me to help her with the kids, that
actually
needed the help.
Blessings, Joshua
On 6/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello,
I'm sure many people who have talked to me before know what I'm
going to
say...
It's the educational system that many of these problems come
down to. We
have teachers coming out of school who are not inspired to
create a new
style of teaching. We have teachers who are never taught about
disabled
students. We have blind students who are never taught how to ask
for
accommodations. We have parents who think being blind is bad!
Honestly, if I could have redone my education as a sighted
person, I would
not have done it. Being blind is such an advantage in the United
States when
going through school. You get extra time on everything, you get
leniency on
all your assignments if you can't finish them on time, you get
free
schooling, you get paid to go through school by SSI, you have so
many
scholarships you can apply for, you can use the law to fight for
accessibility with little retribution, you become great friends
with your
teachers just because you get to talk to them all the time, you
are by
nature a very active participant in your class, you are able to
read your
books 1000 times faster than all of the other students combined,
you're able
to get tutoring for free, you don't have to feel ashamed for
taking
advantage of any of the above benefits because you're disabled
and that's
what you're expected to do!
Also, the expectation of your teachers is rather low and when
you get 100%
on all their hardest tests they get all embarrassed, people
think it's
amazing that you're getting strait As when it's nothing,
(Stereotypically)
blind people are very unsocial so they have lots of extra time
to do school
work, you're able to actually edit your teacher's handouts and
instructions
because Jaws doesn't miss skipped letters, if you have a problem
with your
online test you can blame it on your screen reader crashing the
web browser,
state colleges gobble you up if you have ever taken an honors
class at a
community college and you have good grades and you've written
one of those
inspiring essays, when you write inspiring essays you can get
the super
arrogant feeling for a moment and say "That's me in the essay!",
you're able
to participate in all kinds of extra activities through agencies
like Global
explorers or the Light House, you can participate in summer job
programs
like YES1 and YES2 in Washington State, when you go to community
college or
state college you're given a guide through the school because
you need a
mobility lesson and you have the disability resource person...
I should probably stop, but you get the idea...
It's probably because I was homeschooled for the first few years
of my life
and did all kinds of super awesome things with my overly amazing
parents and
didn't enter public school till 5th grade that I have this view
of school,
but I understood that I could learn in public school and it was
just that
either the teacher wasn't teaching me or that I wasn't equipped
with the
skills or technology that was keeping me from learning.
There are many other factors in learning, like Gardiner's
multiple theory
of intelligences that play a factor in if one learns in school,
but thank
goodness I was able to learn that anyone can learn from anyone,
they just
need to know how they learn and learn that way!
I can give examples, but this email is already super long, so
I'll get off
education.
My point is that most blind people aren’t taught about all the
above things.
I was super lucky because my parents let me run my IEP meetings
and my mom
became a TVI half way through my schooling, but every blind
person needs to
know that school can be amazing! It is worth spending 8-12 years
of your
life there getting your music degree or dentist degree.
Another factor is that disabled people are fit into even a
tighter mold of
what they are to be when disabled people are the most unique of
anyone.
Blind people do not belong in special ed classes because they
don't need
special ed. Special ed teachers are people who teach extreme
cases of
autistic or other mentally disabled people. If a blind person is
put into
that environment and they don't need it, they will go insane!
It's like if
Stephen Hawking would have been born totally disabled and people
stuck him
into special ed just because he can't talk!
Where would cosmology be?
Sadly it's those who break out of the mold and assimilate their
own way into
sighted culture in order to evade the label of mentally disabled
that are
fighting for these rights.
I keep on telling people that if someone is considered weird
it's not them
that's weird, it's you who's weird for thinking that they're
weird. It's
like you thinking the person in front of you is going through
time the same
way you are!
Sadly the world is not reasonable, so we have to shuck reason
and go for
emotion. That's why we write all the super inspiring essays and
that's why
we have to assimilate into the sighted world.
Those who end up working in low under minimum wage jobs have
probably not
learned how to assimilate enough to pass off as "normal" in the
sighted
community, so that's probably why they can't get the entry level
jobs.
Before someone gives the line about not needing to be anything
other than
blind because we are blind, let me just say that most of this
world likes to
think they are sighted and normal. Most people like to walk with
the crowd.
Those who never learn to walk with the crowd are considered
weird, those who
learn how to walk with the crowd then figure out how to rise
above it are
considered great.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
Hi Brandon,
These are all good points. I like your statement about blind
people
who are "nurtured to act like they are mentally disabled" as I
have
met a few people who unfortunately seem to fit that description.
The problem is that there is no objective test to determine what
a
person is or is not capable of doing. Even so-called objective
tests
like IQ tests are incredibly biased and don't account for
environmental factors that artificially limit people's abilities
or
knowledge, like what is expected of them by parents and
teachers, or
what skills they are or are not taught. There is research
showing that
when people are expected to behave or perform in a certain way,
they
tend to fulfill that expectation (this is called a
"self-fulfilling
prophesy; if you're interested in the research, look up
"Pygmalian
effect"). So when teachers are randomly told that some kids are
smarter than others, they tend to treat those "smart" kids
differently
without even realizing it and eventually the "smart" kids end up
performing better than the other kids. The reverse pattern too
often
happens with disabilities. People have so many assumptions about
how
disabilities limit potential, and people in authority can act in
ways
that make those assumptions come true.
I also agree that people with disabilities would be much more
productive in sheltered jobs if they did work that was
intrinsically
interesting to them and if the work was in a field they were
actually
good at. It is common knowledge that people of all ages and
mental
abilities will do a better job at any task if they find the task
enjoyable and motivating. Too often, sheltered jobs are simply
too
boring to really engage people. Also, people with disabilities
have
their own talents that are rarely utilized in sheltered jobs. I
have
figured out that if I were forced to do a sheltered workshop
job, I
would probably be the one losing them money if they paid me at
minimum
wage, because I have never been good at making stuff with my
hands or
using machines. Not only would I be bored to tears, but I just
wouldn't be good at it. I am much better at writing and thinking
and
doing math, so I hope that society will let me use those skills
instead of forcing me to do work I'm not skilled at.
Regarding your comment about unemployment among the blind, it is
true
that many fields are accessible to the blind these days, yet the
unemployment rate is still staggering. There are many reasons
for
unemployment among the blind. I think one reason is that
employers
want to hire applicants with relevant experience, and in many
fields,
the entry-level position that people get at first to gain
experience
isn't accessible to the blind. This might not be true with
programming, but in some fields it is really hard to get your
foot in
the door even if it's easier to work at higher levels. For
example,
before becoming a teacher, you need to do student teaching,
which
means you are working under someone else who might not use
accessible
materials or who will doubt your ability to do the job. Without
experience, it's harder to allay people's initial discriminatory
doubts and fears about hiring a blind person. Also, even within
an
accessible field, individual employers might use materials that
aren't
accessible to the blind. So even though programming is very
accessible, if some employers require you to use languages or
scripts
that aren't accessible, this will limit job options.
Arielle
On 6/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello,
It's a tricky situation. We can't really say what it's like
being mentally
disabled and it's hard to say what mentally disabled can or can
not do. We
also can't tell if the blind who are nurtured to act like
mentally
disabled
people really are mentally disabled.
*That's a mouthful!*
I am of the opinion that mentally disabled people are way under
employed
and
jobs like Goodwill are completely the wrong job for many of
them. But I'm
not a professional and I can only say from personal experience
that many
mentally disabled people can do what they want quite well and
often it's
because they are babied and misunderstood that they are
pressured into
doing jobs they aren’t good at.
I do wonder the need of blind adults to be working at good will
in the
first
place though when it's not that hard learning programming and
it's pretty
easy to get reeducated for free in the United States as a blind
person. If
your career isn't working out, I don't see why one wouldn't just
take a
class at their community college and change their job. I believe
SSI is
for
college students and those fresh out of college, or for a back
up when
work
isn't coming. I am still a student, but I know I have for sure
jobs if I
go
into programming or being a TVI. So other than the moral
issues, I'm not
sure why capable blind people are working at goodwill.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 8:32 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
Hi all,
I don't shop at Goodwill either, but I was regularly donating
items
like used clothes to Goodwill, and my parents do as well. A
customer
boycott might not matter much but a donor boycott would probably
hurt
them considerably. I have to say I found Justin's arguments very
persuasive. I just hope that if we boycott all branches
nationally, we
make it very clear that what we want is a change to national
policy.
Interestingly, I used to rent an apartment from a woman (I'll
call her
S) whose full-time job was to be a live-in caretaker for a woman
with
Down's syndrome and significant mental retardation (I'll call
her C).
Since I rented the apartment right below theirs, I got to know
both S
and C quite well and learned a bit about C's situation.
Apparently C
is employed by a program for people with intellectual
disabilities
similar to Goodwill's but it wasn't Goodwill itself. I think S.
told
me that C. was paid around $1 per hour for doing an extremely
menial
job although I don't remember what that job was exactly.
However, I
don't think C. had any living expenses at all because she lived
rent-free with S. She may have been helping pay for groceries.
The
program she was in was very custodial and I'm not sure she even
had
independent access to the money she earned at her job.
I don't think I can really judge whether people with
disabilities like
C.'s are capable of living without custodial care or spending
their
own money, any more than a deaf person should be able to judge
how
independent blind people can be. I do suspect that people like
C.
would achieve more if they were held to higher expectations, and
higher expectations should come with higher wages and more
freedom.
I definitely believe that anyone who lives independently should
be
paid at least the minimum wage, and I think it is clear that
blindness
by itself doesn't prevent anyone from living independently.
However, I
do wonder if minimum wage is necessary for those who don't have
living
expenses or who don't manage their own finances because they are
living in custodial care situations. I'm sure there are people
in
these custodial arrangements who shouldn't be there, but that
almost
sounds like a separate issue. These people aren't in custodial
care
because they are earning low wages, but because their parents or
others acting on their behalf have decided they don't have the
intellect or the maturity to make adult decisions. Again, this
should
never be said about people who are just blind without other
disabilities. As far as intellectual disabilities go, in some
cases
this judgment might be right; in other cases it might be wrong.
But if
someone is clearly not able to manage adult expenses, should
they be
paid adult wages? It's tricky.
I can also understand the argument that if noncompetitive
employment
programs for the disabled raise wages, they can't hire as many
workers. This ultimately means that instead of a bunch of
disabled
workers earning crappy wages, some will earn a decent wage and
others
will earn nothing. Of course, we hope that the reduction in
noncompetitive jobs might bring more disabled workers into the
competitive job market. A mandatory minimum wage would also
force
companies with high salaries at the top to redistribute their
payscale
more fairly.
Arielle
On 6/9/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
I agree, Humberto, and I hope what you say comes true. However,
there's a
lot of change we need to make in order for this to happen. Even
if we
overturn the subminimum wage provision, and I hope and pray that
we do,
we
can't possibly tell employers that they have to hire people with
disabilities. So, we need to change the beliefs and the
attidudes of
society, including employers, about the competence of blind
people. I
know,
it's a big job, but I think we've made a lot of progress so far.
Just my thoughts,
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Humberto Avila
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 10:10 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
Hello, I agree with this as well. I hope that by doing the
boycott to
this
company, in the national / universal spectrum, we are able to
put
pressure
on employers, and on other companies and corporations, as well
as
organizations who pay subminimum wages. We could eventually end
up
spreading the word of stopping companies to pay subminimum wages
and they
could even see that people with disabilities and including blind
people
are
capable of being paid like the sighted population. If potential
employers
see this change happening, those employers will have a light
bulb lit up,
and will be able to see that blind people are competent, then
will hire
them. Then we can make more change. I see this happening, from
my
personal
opinion. Let's hope that the NFB does this.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 6:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
Justin,
I agree with the points you've made. If Goodwill was boycotted
universally,
it would put more pressure on them to pay their disabled workers
fair
wages. Plus, if Goodwill developed a centralized wage policy and
gave
their
workers fair wages, other corporations might follow their lead.
----- Original Message -----
From: Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu
To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun
2012
23:19:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
One more note: I think that local business decision-makers
within
Goodwill
Industries would be educated/led to philosophical change simply
by the
fact
that the corporate leaders of Goodwill Industries adopted a
universal
fair
wage policy (if they did), so that would help with the
education, too.
Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu
ë°¡ever doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens
can change the world; indeed, itë© the only thing that ever
has.?
ë¾ARGARET MEAD
________________________________________
From: Justin Salisbury
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 7:13 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Goodwill Boycott
Arielle, Gabe, and all:
I like the point that you've made about the decentralized wage
policies
and
rewarding good locations, but do you think that perhaps a
benefit to
boycotting universally would be a possibility that Goodwill
Industries
would create a centralized
(universal) policy that all locations must pay their workers
fair wages?
I feel like the end result that we want is for Goodwill
Industries to
adopt
a universal standard of paying all workers fair wages, and the
approach
that you all have mentioned seems to me to address the decisions
in
individual locations. I do understand the point of leading
local
business
leaders to undergo philosophical change and choose to pay their
workers
fair wages, but which item is the top priority: education of
individuals
or
achievement of fair wages? That's not a rhetorical question; I
want to hear opinions on it.
Justin
Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu
ë°¡ever doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens
can change the world; indeed, itë© the only thing that ever
has.?
ë¾ARGARET MEAD
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