[nabs-l] Schools for the Blind
Joshua Lester
jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
Mon Jun 11 18:35:51 UTC 2012
I have a friend in another state, who said the same thing about her
school for the blind.
That's good, if the ASB isn't as bad as I thought it was, when I
observed the kids, that should've graduated, (by looking at their
grades,) but it does need to be looked at.
Blessings, Joshua
On 6/11/12, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Know one is held back unless you are lacking the educational requirement
> training needed to graduate or unless you need a year or two for independent
> living training. But know one is held back because their classmates are
> slow.
>
> Anmol
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> --- On Mon, 6/11/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Schools for the Blind
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Monday, June 11, 2012, 12:45 PM
>> I don't know where that guy got his
>> info, then.
>> It was someone that I met at Jumpstart, that told me this.
>> I should've asked around, but it's sad that some of the
>> smarter ones
>> are held back, just because of those that aren't doing so
>> well.
>> I knew 2 19-year-old's, that should've graduated two years
>> before I
>> graduated from public school, but they ended up graduating,
>> in 2008.
>> I probably would've graduated later, had I not attended
>> public school.
>> These kids should be able to graduate, on time, with their
>> sighted piers!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 6/11/12, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Josh,
>> > Just so you know knowone can can attend ASB past the
>> age of 21.
>> >
>> > Anmol
>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>> make me sad. Perhaps
>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
>> vague, like a breeze
>> > among flowers.
>> > Hellen Keller
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Sun, 6/10/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list"
>> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Date: Sunday, June 10, 2012, 11:46 AM
>> >> Sophie!
>> >> You don't know how bad schools for the blind are!
>> >> Good grief!
>> >> When I attended the Jumpstart program, at Arkansas
>> School
>> >> for the
>> >> Blind, I was sad to see kids my age, who should've
>> graduated
>> >> from high
>> >> school, who had straight A's, be held back!
>> >> I asked around, and the oldest graduates from the
>> school, in
>> >> 2007, was
>> >> 25 years old!
>> >> That's what one former student told me.
>> >> Sad!
>> >> Blessings, Joshua
>> >>
>> >> On 6/10/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > I was very fortunate to have a good TVI for
>> most of my
>> >> life, but
>> >> > when Hurricane Katrina hit, I was forced to
>> leave home
>> >> and attend
>> >> > a school for the blind. I was shocked at how
>> horrible
>> >> it was. On
>> >> > my first day there, I was taken to a VI class
>> and asked
>> >> to read a
>> >> > braille book so that they could evaluate my
>> skills.
>> >> Within five
>> >> > minutes, they sent me right back to class. The
>> TVI's
>> >> there had
>> >> > nothing new to teach me. I was in a
>> third/fourth-grade
>> >> class, and
>> >> > the work was first-grade level. This boils
>> down to we
>> >> need better
>> >> > TVI's and more of them.
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing
>> >> list
>> >> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > Date sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 02:11:25 -0500
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Wow!
>> >> > You're right!
>> >> > I didn't have a real TVI, for 6/12th grade.
>> >> > My TVI, (So called,) was a special Ed teacher,
>> who
>> >> ended up
>> >> > getting
>> >> > trained as a TVI.
>> >> > If she wasn't there to help me, guess where I
>> was
>> >> forced to go!
>> >> > Yup!
>> >> > Special Ed classes!
>> >> > Of course, I enjoyed it, because the
>> instructor knew I
>> >> didn't
>> >> > need to
>> >> > be there, so she allowed me to help her with
>> the kids,
>> >> that
>> >> > actually
>> >> > needed the help.
>> >> > Blessings, Joshua
>> >> >
>> >> > On 6/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> > I'm sure many people who have talked to
>> me before
>> >> know what I'm
>> >> > going to
>> >> > say...
>> >> > It's the educational system that many of
>> these
>> >> problems come
>> >> > down to. We
>> >> > have teachers coming out of school who
>> are not
>> >> inspired to
>> >> > create a new
>> >> > style of teaching. We have teachers who
>> are never
>> >> taught about
>> >> > disabled
>> >> > students. We have blind students who are
>> never
>> >> taught how to ask
>> >> > for
>> >> > accommodations. We have parents who
>> think being
>> >> blind is bad!
>> >> > Honestly, if I could have redone my
>> education as
>> >> a sighted
>> >> > person, I would
>> >> > not have done it. Being blind is such
>> an
>> >> advantage in the United
>> >> > States when
>> >> > going through school. You get extra time
>> on
>> >> everything, you get
>> >> > leniency on
>> >> > all your assignments if you can't finish
>> them on
>> >> time, you get
>> >> > free
>> >> > schooling, you get paid to go through
>> school by
>> >> SSI, you have so
>> >> > many
>> >> > scholarships you can apply for, you can
>> use the
>> >> law to fight for
>> >> > accessibility with little retribution,
>> you become
>> >> great friends
>> >> > with your
>> >> > teachers just because you get to talk to
>> them all
>> >> the time, you
>> >> > are by
>> >> > nature a very active participant in your
>> class,
>> >> you are able to
>> >> > read your
>> >> > books 1000 times faster than all of the
>> other
>> >> students combined,
>> >> > you're able
>> >> > to get tutoring for free, you don't have
>> to feel
>> >> ashamed for
>> >> > taking
>> >> > advantage of any of the above benefits
>> because
>> >> you're disabled
>> >> > and that's
>> >> > what you're expected to do!
>> >> > Also, the expectation of your teachers
>> is rather
>> >> low and when
>> >> > you get 100%
>> >> > on all their hardest tests they get all
>> >> embarrassed, people
>> >> > think it's
>> >> > amazing that you're getting strait As
>> when it's
>> >> nothing,
>> >> > (Stereotypically)
>> >> > blind people are very unsocial so they
>> have lots
>> >> of extra time
>> >> > to do school
>> >> > work, you're able to actually edit your
>> teacher's
>> >> handouts and
>> >> > instructions
>> >> > because Jaws doesn't miss skipped
>> letters, if you
>> >> have a problem
>> >> > with your
>> >> > online test you can blame it on your
>> screen
>> >> reader crashing the
>> >> > web browser,
>> >> > state colleges gobble you up if you have
>> ever
>> >> taken an honors
>> >> > class at a
>> >> > community college and you have good
>> grades and
>> >> you've written
>> >> > one of those
>> >> > inspiring essays, when you write
>> inspiring essays
>> >> you can get
>> >> > the super
>> >> > arrogant feeling for a moment and say
>> "That's me
>> >> in the essay!",
>> >> > you're able
>> >> > to participate in all kinds of extra
>> activities
>> >> through agencies
>> >> > like Global
>> >> > explorers or the Light House, you can
>> participate
>> >> in summer job
>> >> > programs
>> >> > like YES1 and YES2 in Washington State,
>> when you
>> >> go to community
>> >> > college or
>> >> > state college you're given a guide
>> through the
>> >> school because
>> >> > you need a
>> >> > mobility lesson and you have the
>> disability
>> >> resource person...
>> >> > I should probably stop, but you get the
>> idea...
>> >> > It's probably because I was homeschooled
>> for the
>> >> first few years
>> >> > of my life
>> >> > and did all kinds of super awesome
>> things with my
>> >> overly amazing
>> >> > parents and
>> >> > didn't enter public school till 5th
>> grade that I
>> >> have this view
>> >> > of school,
>> >> > but I understood that I could learn in
>> public
>> >> school and it was
>> >> > just that
>> >> > either the teacher wasn't teaching me or
>> that I
>> >> wasn't equipped
>> >> > with the
>> >> > skills or technology that was keeping me
>> from
>> >> learning.
>> >> > There are many other factors in
>> learning, like
>> >> Gardiner's
>> >> > multiple theory
>> >> > of intelligences that play a factor in
>> if one
>> >> learns in school,
>> >> > but thank
>> >> > goodness I was able to learn that anyone
>> can
>> >> learn from anyone,
>> >> > they just
>> >> > need to know how they learn and learn
>> that way!
>> >> > I can give examples, but this email is
>> already
>> >> super long, so
>> >> > I'll get off
>> >> > education.
>> >> > My point is that most blind people
>> aren’t
>> >> taught about all the
>> >> > above things.
>> >> > I was super lucky because my parents let
>> me run
>> >> my IEP meetings
>> >> > and my mom
>> >> > became a TVI half way through my
>> schooling, but
>> >> every blind
>> >> > person needs to
>> >> > know that school can be amazing! It is
>> worth
>> >> spending 8-12 years
>> >> > of your
>> >> > life there getting your music degree or
>> dentist
>> >> degree.
>> >> >
>> >> > Another factor is that disabled people
>> are fit
>> >> into even a
>> >> > tighter mold of
>> >> > what they are to be when disabled people
>> are the
>> >> most unique of
>> >> > anyone.
>> >> > Blind people do not belong in special ed
>> classes
>> >> because they
>> >> > don't need
>> >> > special ed. Special ed teachers are
>> people who
>> >> teach extreme
>> >> > cases of
>> >> > autistic or other mentally disabled
>> people. If a
>> >> blind person is
>> >> > put into
>> >> > that environment and they don't need it,
>> they
>> >> will go insane!
>> >> > It's like if
>> >> > Stephen Hawking would have been born
>> totally
>> >> disabled and people
>> >> > stuck him
>> >> > into special ed just because he can't
>> talk!
>> >> > Where would cosmology be?
>> >> > Sadly it's those who break out of the
>> mold and
>> >> assimilate their
>> >> > own way into
>> >> > sighted culture in order to evade the
>> label of
>> >> mentally disabled
>> >> > that are
>> >> > fighting for these rights.
>> >> >
>> >> > I keep on telling people that if someone
>> is
>> >> considered weird
>> >> > it's not them
>> >> > that's weird, it's you who's weird for
>> thinking
>> >> that they're
>> >> > weird. It's
>> >> > like you thinking the person in front of
>> you is
>> >> going through
>> >> > time the same
>> >> > way you are!
>> >> >
>> >> > Sadly the world is not reasonable, so we
>> have to
>> >> shuck reason
>> >> > and go for
>> >> > emotion. That's why we write all the
>> super
>> >> inspiring essays and
>> >> > that's why
>> >> > we have to assimilate into the sighted
>> world.
>> >> > Those who end up working in low under
>> minimum
>> >> wage jobs have
>> >> > probably not
>> >> > learned how to assimilate enough to pass
>> off as
>> >> "normal" in the
>> >> > sighted
>> >> > community, so that's probably why they
>> can't get
>> >> the entry level
>> >> > jobs.
>> >> >
>> >> > Before someone gives the line about not
>> needing
>> >> to be anything
>> >> > other than
>> >> > blind because we are blind, let me just
>> say that
>> >> most of this
>> >> > world likes to
>> >> > think they are sighted and normal. Most
>> people
>> >> like to walk with
>> >> > the crowd.
>> >> > Those who never learn to walk with the
>> crowd are
>> >> considered
>> >> > weird, those who
>> >> > learn how to walk with the crowd then
>> figure out
>> >> how to rise
>> >> > above it are
>> >> > considered great.
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> > Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Arielle Silverman
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:27 PM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind
>> Students
>> >> mailing list
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi Brandon,
>> >> > These are all good points. I like your
>> statement
>> >> about blind
>> >> > people
>> >> > who are "nurtured to act like they are
>> mentally
>> >> disabled" as I
>> >> > have
>> >> > met a few people who unfortunately seem
>> to fit
>> >> that description.
>> >> > The problem is that there is no
>> objective test to
>> >> determine what
>> >> > a
>> >> > person is or is not capable of doing.
>> Even
>> >> so-called objective
>> >> > tests
>> >> > like IQ tests are incredibly biased and
>> don't
>> >> account for
>> >> > environmental factors that artificially
>> limit
>> >> people's abilities
>> >> > or
>> >> > knowledge, like what is expected of them
>> by
>> >> parents and
>> >> > teachers, or
>> >> > what skills they are or are not taught.
>> There is
>> >> research
>> >> > showing that
>> >> > when people are expected to behave or
>> perform in
>> >> a certain way,
>> >> > they
>> >> > tend to fulfill that expectation (this
>> is called
>> >> a
>> >> > "self-fulfilling
>> >> > prophesy; if you're interested in the
>> research,
>> >> look up
>> >> > "Pygmalian
>> >> > effect"). So when teachers are randomly
>> told that
>> >> some kids are
>> >> > smarter than others, they tend to treat
>> those
>> >> "smart" kids
>> >> > differently
>> >> > without even realizing it and eventually
>> the
>> >> "smart" kids end up
>> >> > performing better than the other kids.
>> The
>> >> reverse pattern too
>> >> > often
>> >> > happens with disabilities. People have
>> so many
>> >> assumptions about
>> >> > how
>> >> > disabilities limit potential, and people
>> in
>> >> authority can act in
>> >> > ways
>> >> > that make those assumptions come true.
>> >> > I also agree that people with
>> disabilities would
>> >> be much more
>> >> > productive in sheltered jobs if they did
>> work
>> >> that was
>> >> > intrinsically
>> >> > interesting to them and if the work was
>> in a
>> >> field they were
>> >> > actually
>> >> > good at. It is common knowledge that
>> people of
>> >> all ages and
>> >> > mental
>> >> > abilities will do a better job at any
>> task if
>> >> they find the task
>> >> > enjoyable and motivating. Too often,
>> sheltered
>> >> jobs are simply
>> >> > too
>> >> > boring to really engage people. Also,
>> people with
>> >> disabilities
>> >> > have
>> >> > their own talents that are rarely
>> utilized in
>> >> sheltered jobs. I
>> >> > have
>> >> > figured out that if I were forced to do
>> a
>> >> sheltered workshop
>> >> > job, I
>> >> > would probably be the one losing them
>> money if
>> >> they paid me at
>> >> > minimum
>> >> > wage, because I have never been good at
>> making
>> >> stuff with my
>> >> > hands or
>> >> > using machines. Not only would I be
>> bored to
>> >> tears, but I just
>> >> > wouldn't be good at it. I am much better
>> at
>> >> writing and thinking
>> >> > and
>> >> > doing math, so I hope that society will
>> let me
>> >> use those skills
>> >> > instead of forcing me to do work I'm not
>> skilled
>> >> at.
>> >> > Regarding your comment about
>> unemployment among
>> >> the blind, it is
>> >> > true
>> >> > that many fields are accessible to the
>> blind
>> >> these days, yet the
>> >> > unemployment rate is still staggering.
>> There are
>> >> many reasons
>> >> > for
>> >> > unemployment among the blind. I think
>> one reason
>> >> is that
>> >> > employers
>> >> > want to hire applicants with relevant
>> experience,
>> >> and in many
>> >> > fields,
>> >> > the entry-level position that people get
>> at first
>> >> to gain
>> >> > experience
>> >> > isn't accessible to the blind. This
>> might not be
>> >> true with
>> >> > programming, but in some fields it is
>> really hard
>> >> to get your
>> >> > foot in
>> >> > the door even if it's easier to work at
>> higher
>> >> levels. For
>> >> > example,
>> >> > before becoming a teacher, you need to
>> do student
>> >> teaching,
>> >> > which
>> >> > means you are working under someone else
>> who
>> >> might not use
>> >> > accessible
>> >> > materials or who will doubt your ability
>> to do
>> >> the job. Without
>> >> > experience, it's harder to allay
>> people's initial
>> >> discriminatory
>> >> > doubts and fears about hiring a blind
>> person.
>> >> Also, even within
>> >> > an
>> >> > accessible field, individual employers
>> might use
>> >> materials that
>> >> > aren't
>> >> > accessible to the blind. So even though
>> >> programming is very
>> >> > accessible, if some employers require
>> you to use
>> >> languages or
>> >> > scripts
>> >> > that aren't accessible, this will limit
>> job
>> >> options.
>> >> > Arielle
>> >> >
>> >> > On 6/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> > It's a tricky situation. We can't really
>> say what
>> >> it's like
>> >> > being mentally
>> >> > disabled and it's hard to say what
>> mentally
>> >> disabled can or can
>> >> > not do. We
>> >> > also can't tell if the blind who are
>> nurtured to
>> >> act like
>> >> > mentally
>> >> > disabled
>> >> > people really are mentally
>> disabled.
>> >> > *That's a mouthful!*
>> >> > I am of the opinion that mentally
>> disabled people
>> >> are way under
>> >> > employed
>> >> > and
>> >> > jobs like Goodwill are completely the
>> wrong job
>> >> for many of
>> >> > them. But I'm
>> >> > not a professional and I can only say
>> from
>> >> personal experience
>> >> > that many
>> >> > mentally disabled people can do what
>> they want
>> >> quite well and
>> >> > often it's
>> >> > because they are babied and
>> misunderstood
>> >> that they are
>> >> > pressured into
>> >> > doing jobs they aren’t good at.
>> >> >
>> >> > I do wonder the need of blind adults to
>> be
>> >> working at good will
>> >> > in the
>> >> > first
>> >> > place though when it's not that hard
>> learning
>> >> programming and
>> >> > it's pretty
>> >> > easy to get reeducated for free in the
>> United
>> >> States as a blind
>> >> > person. If
>> >> > your career isn't working out, I don't
>> see why
>> >> one wouldn't just
>> >> > take a
>> >> > class at their community college and
>> change their
>> >> job. I believe
>> >> > SSI is
>> >> > for
>> >> > college students and those fresh out of
>> college,
>> >> or for a back
>> >> > up when
>> >> > work
>> >> > isn't coming. I am still a student, but
>> I know I
>> >> have for sure
>> >> > jobs if I
>> >> > go
>> >> > into programming or being a TVI. So
>> other than
>> >> the moral
>> >> > issues, I'm not
>> >> > sure why capable blind people are
>> working at
>> >> goodwill.
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> > Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Arielle Silverman
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 8:32 PM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind
>> Students
>> >> mailing list
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi all,
>> >> > I don't shop at Goodwill either, but I
>> was
>> >> regularly donating
>> >> > items
>> >> > like used clothes to Goodwill, and my
>> parents do
>> >> as well. A
>> >> > customer
>> >> > boycott might not matter much but a
>> donor boycott
>> >> would probably
>> >> > hurt
>> >> > them considerably. I have to say I found
>> Justin's
>> >> arguments very
>> >> > persuasive. I just hope that if we
>> boycott all
>> >> branches
>> >> > nationally, we
>> >> > make it very clear that what we want is
>> a change
>> >> to national
>> >> > policy.
>> >> > Interestingly, I used to rent an
>> apartment from a
>> >> woman (I'll
>> >> > call her
>> >> > S) whose full-time job was to be a
>> live-in
>> >> caretaker for a woman
>> >> > with
>> >> > Down's syndrome and significant mental
>> >> retardation (I'll call
>> >> > her C).
>> >> > Since I rented the apartment right below
>> theirs,
>> >> I got to know
>> >> > both S
>> >> > and C quite well and learned a bit about
>> C's
>> >> situation.
>> >> > Apparently C
>> >> > is employed by a program for people
>> with
>> >> intellectual
>> >> > disabilities
>> >> > similar to Goodwill's but it wasn't
>> Goodwill
>> >> itself. I think S.
>> >> > told
>> >> > me that C. was paid around $1 per hour
>> for doing
>> >> an extremely
>> >> > menial
>> >> > job although I don't remember what that
>> job was
>> >> exactly.
>> >> > However, I
>> >> > don't think C. had any living expenses
>> at all
>> >> because she lived
>> >> > rent-free with S. She may have been
>> helping pay
>> >> for groceries.
>> >> > The
>> >> > program she was in was very custodial
>> and I'm not
>> >> sure she even
>> >> > had
>> >> > independent access to the money she
>> earned at her
>> >> job.
>> >> > I don't think I can really judge whether
>> people
>> >> with
>> >> > disabilities like
>> >> > C.'s are capable of living without
>> custodial care
>> >> or spending
>> >> > their
>> >> > own money, any more than a deaf person
>> should be
>> >> able to judge
>> >> > how
>> >> > independent blind people can be. I do
>> suspect
>> >> that people like
>> >> > C.
>> >> > would achieve more if they were held to
>> higher
>> >> expectations, and
>> >> > higher expectations should come with
>> higher wages
>> >> and more
>> >> > freedom.
>> >> > I definitely believe that anyone who
>> lives
>> >> independently should
>> >> > be
>> >> > paid at least the minimum wage, and I
>> think it is
>> >> clear that
>> >> > blindness
>> >> > by itself doesn't prevent anyone from
>> living
>> >> independently.
>> >> > However, I
>> >> > do wonder if minimum wage is necessary
>> for those
>> >> who don't have
>> >> > living
>> >> > expenses or who don't manage their own
>> finances
>> >> because they are
>> >> > living in custodial care situations. I'm
>> sure
>> >> there are people
>> >> > in
>> >> > these custodial arrangements who
>> shouldn't be
>> >> there, but that
>> >> > almost
>> >> > sounds like a separate issue. These
>> people aren't
>> >> in custodial
>> >> > care
>> >> > because they are earning low wages, but
>> because
>> >> their parents or
>> >> > others acting on their behalf have
>> decided they
>> >> don't have the
>> >> > intellect or the maturity to make adult
>> >> decisions. Again, this
>> >> > should
>> >> > never be said about people who are just
>> blind
>> >> without other
>> >> > disabilities. As far as intellectual
>> disabilities
>> >> go, in some
>> >> > cases
>> >> > this judgment might be right; in other
>> cases it
>> >> might be wrong.
>> >> > But if
>> >> > someone is clearly not able to manage
>> adult
>> >> expenses, should
>> >> > they be
>> >> > paid adult wages? It's tricky.
>> >> > I can also understand the argument that
>> if
>> >> noncompetitive
>> >> > employment
>> >> > programs for the disabled raise wages,
>> they can't
>> >> hire as many
>> >> > workers. This ultimately means that
>> instead of a
>> >> bunch of
>> >> > disabled
>> >> > workers earning crappy wages, some will
>> earn a
>> >> decent wage and
>> >> > others
>> >> > will earn nothing. Of course, we hope
>> that the
>> >> reduction in
>> >> > noncompetitive jobs might bring more
>> disabled
>> >> workers into the
>> >> > competitive job market. A mandatory
>> minimum wage
>> >> would also
>> >> > force
>> >> > companies with high salaries at the top
>> to
>> >> redistribute their
>> >> > payscale
>> >> > more fairly.
>> >> > Arielle
>> >> >
>> >> > On 6/9/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > I agree, Humberto, and I hope what you
>> say comes
>> >> true. However,
>> >> > there's a
>> >> > lot of change we need to make in order
>> for this
>> >> to happen. Even
>> >> > if we
>> >> > overturn the subminimum wage provision,
>> and I
>> >> hope and pray that
>> >> > we do,
>> >> > we
>> >> > can't possibly tell employers that they
>> have to
>> >> hire people with
>> >> > disabilities. So, we need to change the
>> beliefs
>> >> and the
>> >> > attidudes of
>> >> > society, including employers, about the
>> >> competence of blind
>> >> > people. I
>> >> > know,
>> >> > it's a big job, but I think we've made a
>> lot of
>> >> progress so far.
>> >> >
>> >> > Just my thoughts,
>> >> >
>> >> > Chris
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >> > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >> On
>> >> > Behalf Of Humberto Avila
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 10:10 PM
>> >> > To: 'National Association of Blind
>> Students
>> >> mailing list'
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello, I agree with this as well. I hope
>> that by
>> >> doing the
>> >> > boycott to
>> >> > this
>> >> > company, in the national / universal
>> spectrum, we
>> >> are able to
>> >> > put
>> >> > pressure
>> >> > on employers, and on other companies
>> and
>> >> corporations, as well
>> >> > as
>> >> > organizations who pay subminimum wages.
>> We could
>> >> eventually end
>> >> > up
>> >> > spreading the word of stopping companies
>> to pay
>> >> subminimum wages
>> >> > and they
>> >> > could even see that people with
>> disabilities and
>> >> including blind
>> >> > people
>> >> > are
>> >> > capable of being paid like the sighted
>> >> population. If potential
>> >> > employers
>> >> > see this change happening, those
>> employers will
>> >> have a light
>> >> > bulb lit up,
>> >> > and will be able to see that blind
>> people are
>> >> competent, then
>> >> > will hire
>> >> > them. Then we can make more change. I
>> see this
>> >> happening, from
>> >> > my
>> >> > personal
>> >> > opinion. Let's hope that the NFB does
>> this.
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >> > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >> On
>> >> > Behalf Of Sophie Trist
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 6:57 PM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind
>> Students
>> >> mailing list
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Justin,
>> >> >
>> >> > I agree with the points you've made. If
>> Goodwill
>> >> was boycotted
>> >> > universally,
>> >> > it would put more pressure on them to
>> pay their
>> >> disabled workers
>> >> > fair
>> >> > wages. Plus, if Goodwill developed a
>> centralized
>> >> wage policy and
>> >> > gave
>> >> > their
>> >> > workers fair wages, other corporations
>> might
>> >> follow their lead.
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu
>> >> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org"
>> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun
>> >> > 2012
>> >> > 23:19:15 +0000
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > One more note: I think that local
>> business
>> >> decision-makers
>> >> > within
>> >> > Goodwill
>> >> > Industries would be educated/led to
>> philosophical
>> >> change simply
>> >> > by the
>> >> > fact
>> >> > that the corporate leaders of Goodwill
>> Industries
>> >> adopted a
>> >> > universal
>> >> > fair
>> >> > wage policy (if they did), so that would
>> help
>> >> with the
>> >> > education, too.
>> >> >
>> >> > Justin M. Salisbury
>> >> > Class of 2012
>> >> > B.A. in Mathematics
>> >> > East Carolina University
>> >> > president at alumni.ecu.edu
>> >> >
>> >> > 밡ever doubt that a small group of
>> thoughtful,
>> >> committed
>> >> > citizens
>> >> > can change the world; indeed, it뭩 the
>> only
>> >> thing that ever
>> >> > has.?
>> >> > 뾏ARGARET MEAD
>> >> >
>> ________________________________________
>> >> > From: Justin Salisbury
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 7:13 PM
>> >> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > Subject: Goodwill Boycott
>> >> >
>> >> > Arielle, Gabe, and all:
>> >> >
>> >> > I like the point that you've made about
>> the
>> >> decentralized wage
>> >> > policies
>> >> > and
>> >> > rewarding good locations, but do you
>> think that
>> >> perhaps a
>> >> > benefit to
>> >> > boycotting universally would be a
>> possibility
>> >> that Goodwill
>> >> > Industries
>> >> > would create a centralized
>> >> > (universal) policy that all locations
>> must pay
>> >> their workers
>> >> > fair wages?
>> >> >
>> >> > I feel like the end result that we want
>> is for
>> >> Goodwill
>> >> > Industries to
>> >> > adopt
>> >> > a universal standard of paying all
>> workers fair
>> >> wages, and the
>> >> > approach
>> >> > that you all have mentioned seems to me
>> to
>> >> address the decisions
>> >> > in
>> >> > individual locations. I do
>> understand the
>> >> point of leading
>> >> > local
>> >> > business
>> >> > leaders to undergo philosophical change
>> and
>> >> choose to pay their
>> >> > workers
>> >> > fair wages, but which item is the top
>> priority:
>> >> education of
>> >> > individuals
>> >> > or
>> >> >
>> >> > achievement of fair
>> >> wages? That's not a rhetorical
>> question; I
>> >> > want to hear opinions on it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Justin
>> >> >
>> >> > Justin M. Salisbury
>> >> > Class of 2012
>> >> > B.A. in Mathematics
>> >> > East Carolina University
>> >> > president at alumni.ecu.edu
>> >> >
>> >> > 밡ever doubt that a small group of
>> thoughtful,
>> >> committed
>> >> > citizens
>> >> > can change the world; indeed, it뭩 the
>> only
>> >> thing that ever
>> >> > has.?
>> >> > 뾏ARGARET MEAD
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>> >> > l:
>> >> >
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> >> > r%40gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
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>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>> >> > iggs%40gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
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>> >> > iggs%40gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> > 0students.pccua.edu
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >
>> >>
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