[nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
Wasif, Zunaira
Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org
Tue Jun 12 13:57:06 UTC 2012
What do people think about a hiring quota for disabled people? This
would render Good Will's argument, that disabled people need to settle
for subminum wages or no wages, obselete.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 6:03 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
Ashley,
You said there may not be a set corporate policy, and I suppose you're
probably right. But there should be, and that's why this boycott makes
sense to me. If you have some branches paying any employees below the
minimum wage, you really do need a national policy to set that straight.
Unfortunate, but true. I really think it is that simple...this is one
of those few issues where there isn't much of a grey area, in my humble
opinion.
Take it or leave it,
Kirt
On 6/11/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Elizabeth,
> Perhaps, the figure supports my theory that in fact most employees are
> paid
>
> above minimum wage. As Arielle said, most locations vary in what they
> pay. I
>
> don't think there is a set corporate policy.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elizabeth
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:24 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> Please forgive me as I did not read through the entire article you
> make reference to in your post. However, now that I have read it, I am
> still wondering how they can come up with an average of $7.47 when
> someone is only making $1.44. I am not a math genius by any means, but
> it would seem to me that if someone is only making $1.44, and the
> average is $7.47, then that would mean someone is making a
> considerable amount more than what most people are making to achieve
> such an average. Does this make any sense? I am not necessarily
> questioning the information you cited from the article, but rather
> questioning the information that was cited in the article itself.
> There is just something about it that does not make sense to me. I am
> sorry that I cannot find a better way to explain it.
>
> Warm regards,
> Elizabeth
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Greg Aikens" <gpaikens at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 12:26 PM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
>
>> Hi Elizabeth,
>> I should have included my sources. The first was the article
>> recently posted to the list by Anil Lewis:
>> http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/208068/189/Goodwill-Pays-Disabled-E
>> mployees-Less-than-Minimum-Wage This article gives the number of
>> employees impacted and their average wage. The reason that an
>> average wage of $7.47 could still be below minimum wage is because
>> many states have minimum wage laws that are higher
>>
>> than the federal minimum wage. For a quick list of minimum wage by
>> state, go to:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages
>>
>> Please check my facts in case I misread.
>>
>> -Greg
>>
>> On Jun 11, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Elizabeth wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Gregg,
>>>
>>> I have to say that your numbers to not make much sense to me. If
>>> these employees are making $7.47 as mentioned in your post, , then
>>> how exactly
>>>
>>> does that constitute as a subminimum wage? Is it possible the
>>> calculated
>>>
>>> average of these employees also includes the outrageously high
>>> salaries of those who may hold management positions which in effect
>>> would cancel out the extremely low subminimum wages paid to the
>>> factory worker or the
>>>
>>> average employee thus creating an average that appears to be above
>>> the national minimum wage? I am not sure where you found your
>>> numbers, but if
>>>
>>> what you state is true, then I do not see how this would be an issue
>>> of paying people subminimum wage.
>>>
>>> Warm regards,
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Greg Aikens" <gpaikens at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 10:46 AM
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
>>>
>>>> Sean's post got me thinking about how many employees are actually
>>>> impacted by this policy and how much it would cost for them to
>>>> actually
>>>>
>>>> make these changes. According to the article Anil Lewis posted,
>>>> 7300 employees are hired on their certificate to pay disabled
>>>> workers less than minimum wage, but the average wage paid them is
>>>> $7.47, which is actually higher than the federal minimum wage of
>>>> $7.25. I can't say what the average minimum wage for these workers
>>>> would be because each state is different, but I wouldn't imagine it
>>>> could be higher than $8.50. So they would have to on average pay
>>>> workers with disabilities
>>>> $1 more per hour, $40 more per week, $2080 per year. Multiply that
>>>> by the 7300 employees on the certificate and you get $15,184,000.
>>>>
>>>> I was surprised that the number of workers impacted by this policy
>>>> is so
>>>>
>>>> high.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I thought these numbers were interesting and thought I
>>>> would post in case others are interested too.
>>>>
>>>> -Greg
>>>> On Jun 10, 2012, at 6:45 PM, Gmail wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Good afternoon,
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the primary purposes of the boycott is to garner media
>>>>> attention
>>>>>
>>>>> for
>>>>> the minimum wage issue. The boycott effort and PR/media efforts
>>>>> are complementary rather than mutually exclusive.
>>>>>
>>>>> We "pick on" Good Will because they are one of, if not the,
>>>>> largest and
>>>>>
>>>>> most
>>>>> visible nonprofits who take advantage of the current law to pay
>>>>> workers
>>>>>
>>>>> with
>>>>> disabilities subminimum wages. When you're the biggest fish in the
>>>>> pond you're going to get noticed and your actions will be
>>>>> scrutinized by people in and out of your field. That's just the
>>>>> way it goes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of these workshops do the vast majority of their business
>>>>> with the federal government, providing goods and services through
>>>>> non-competitive set-aside contracts. These goods and services are
>>>>> frequently provided at costs that exceed their fair market value.
>>>>> Obviously Good Will has their hands in other activities as well,
>>>>> but the point stands. If taxpayers are being asked to subsidize
>>>>> nonprofits to create employment opportunities
>>>>>
>>>>> for
>>>>> blind or otherwise disabled individuals, and we all, in effect,
>>>>> subsidize the very good, and sometimes exorbitant, salaries of the
>>>>> management of
>>>>>
>>>>> these
>>>>> non-profits, why is it a bad idea to subsidize the wages of
>>>>> disabled individuals, even those who may not be able to produce
>>>>> output justifying the minimum wage in the market?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that the number of disabled folks in these workshops who
>>>>> are incapable of truly earning the minimum wage is much lower than
>>>>> most people assume. And, again, if there is somebody whose level
>>>>> of output truly only justifies $1.50 per hour, I am happy to
>>>>> subsidize the wage to give them
>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>> dignity of equal treatment under the law.
>>>>>
>>>>> I myself worked for a time in a shop and was paid less than $4 per
>>>>> hour. I'm worth more than that. I saw others in the very same
>>>>> boat. The law is discriminatory, and the system is corrupt and
>>>>> fails to achieve its stated goals. Not only should the minimum
>>>>> wage apply, but organizations wishing to receive preferential
>>>>> treatment in government contracting should have to
>>>>>
>>>>> fill
>>>>> a stated percentage of their managerial positions with folks with
>>>>> disabilities and offer true training and upward mobility. As it
>>>>> stands
>>>>>
>>>>> now,
>>>>> there is no real opportunity in the vast majority of these
workshops.
>>>>>
>>>>> While it is true that, generally speaking, the NFB only speaks for
>>>>> the blind, on this issue we have over 40 different disabilities
>>>>> rights organizations standing shoulder to shoulder with us saying
>>>>> that it is reprehensible that we, today in the United States of
>>>>> America, have a law on the books that codifies the inferiority and
>>>>> lesser ability of those with disabilities. We, and they, are
>>>>> completely correct. The boycott of Good
>>>>>
>>>>> Will
>>>>> is but one piece of the larger effort. It is incumbent upon each
>>>>> of us
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>> keep pressure on our Members of Congress to change the law. Will
>>>>> it cost Good Will and other non-profits more money to pay all
>>>>> their workers minimum wage? Yes, it will. Is the tiny increase in
>>>>> cost realistically going to
>>>>>
>>>>> lead
>>>>> to the loss of job opportunities as many of the workshops claim? I
>>>>> can't see how it would. In fact, it won't. And the argument is
>>>>> disingenuous and, frankly, pretty disgusting. Say a shop worker
>>>>> currently makes $1.50 an
>>>>>
>>>>> hour.
>>>>> Say the law is changed and minimum wage now applies. Say the
>>>>> employee is now paid $7.50 an hour. That's an extra $6 an hour, an
>>>>> extra $240 a week, and $12,480 a year. Say Good Will has 100
>>>>> employees of whom this is the case (in reality there are fewer).
>>>>> This would represent an annual cost increase
>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> $1,248,000 to Good Will. That's a lot of money to you or me, but a
>>>>> pittance to this giant non-profit. The same can be said of smaller
>>>>> shops, just on a smaller scale. The argument that all the poor
>>>>> unemployable disabled folks will be sent home jobless if the law
>>>>> is changed is bogus and cynical.
>>>>> As I
>>>>> said before, the majority of these shops get the majority of their
>>>>> business through non-competitive contracts with the government, so
>>>>> the additional labor cost would be built right into the price the
>>>>> government pays.
>>>>> And, as
>>>>> I also said, I am happy to have my tax dollars go to affirm the
>>>>> dignity, value and legal equality of all individuals rather than
>>>>> to support the
>>>>>
>>>>> 70,
>>>>> 80, 100k salaries of the management types at these shops who
>>>>> somehow sleep at night under the illusion, or maybe delusion, that
>>>>> they are doing something positive for people with disabilities.
>>>>> It's wrong, it's disgusting, and, yes, it hits a raw nerve with me
>>>>> because I've lived it. If there is a minimum wage it should apply
>>>>> to everybody in the employment market, full stop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sean
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hot
>>>> mail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail
>>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotma
>> il.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart
> hlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g
> mail.com
>
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs.
fldoe.org
More information about the NABS-L
mailing list